Adani group, an Evil corp?

But why government is not taking action on Adani? That will shut all the mouth and close the case.
What makes you think some people sitting in NYC with dubious intent know more than GOI, ED & SEBI? You can make any arguments to do so but no action to date means these arguments have no merit. Which should be obvious to those who trust the system with their hard earned money. Adani's shares are slowly rising. Some got in when it was less.

Instead, we took action on the BBC. Not a sound from outside. They were sent several notices that they ignored and then the IT guys came knocking. GOI did not care what the reaction would be because they had that mega $80bn Air India project coming up. Reality shot right there to everyone, who wants to kill the goose that lays golden eggs?

More amusing is how fast Twitter shut offices in Bombay & Delhi soon after. Twitter knows they are on the radar. I would not rule out a temporary ban on Twitter to prevent interference later if the ECI deems it fit. You would think things are better these days with the new Twitter head they have but nothing is certain.

No date has been set for the general elections, so it's still over a year away. In other words still early days and look at the number of shots that have been taken already.

This is the way the game is played, you deal with it if you want to get into the big boys club.
 
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Indian business-politico nexus coordinated in Adani (and probably many other yet to be discovered) discrepancies.
So, it is inevitable that detractors will stand against those politicians and their business buddies to target them.

Should've taken care of all this considering they had all the time and power. They should've sold some of their own shares when it was obscenely priced to pay off some debt. Would've saved tons of head aches they are suffering today. But, unchecked power and greed corrupted them uncontrollably, still persisting.

Looking at the future of Gift City and how things will play out in light of all this :)
 
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Is it Adani that is the target?


I'm sticking to contours and seeing these incidents as part of a larger coordinated attack. More is coming don't you worry.
Why would you think this is a coordinated attack.

1) I am sure you believe the rather British BBC is falsely targeting Modi (which may or may not be the case)
2) I am sure you also believe Soros is falsely targeting Modi as a part of the same coordinated attack.. Right?

But Isn’t Soros also the one who so famously shorted (and sunk) the British Pound and almost single handedly nearly broke the Bank of England

So either 1 is false or 2 is false or both are false.. but both 1 and 2 cannot be true..
Unfortunately a lot of whatsapp and media propaganda seems to be trying to convince people otherwise.

In some ways, bracketing them together as dark western forces is the same as how some RW westerners tend to view Indians and Pakistanis as one and the same enemy :D
 
Why would you think this is a coordinated attack.
Let's see

Back in December around 70 kids died in Gambia due to cough syrup from an Indian company. WHO puts out a global warning against Indian cough medicine. This was a scheduled drug btw to be administered by doctors. The company was ordered closed and an investigation is ongoing but you see how Indian pharma gets tainted by WHO and globally. The same story surfaces in Uzbekistan some days later of all places. Why hasn't it happened in India?

Then we have the Chinese attempt on Dec 9 to grab a ridge which they failed. You might not think this is related but it is because right now India is rising and China is falling Every thing India gains is a loss for China. Since decoupling is occurring in China they are trying to discourage investment in India by keeping border issues alive. All they need is to grab a slice to embarrass us to get their mojo back.

Jan wears on and this BBC thing starts. Chinese money funded this. Next, we have the Adani hit which I've already explained the context of which is infrastructure. Anther thing that China does not want. Then this Soros guy jumps in. Maybe he's the one who encouraged the Hindenberg hit and is now a bit miffed that the results aren't to his liking. He's starting to look like a bumbling fool because he's tainted the opposition who are desperately trying to show they have no connection. Notice how Soros never goes after China ? because they're on the same side.

Soros still has more tricks up his sleeve. Causing civil unrest is one of them.

How about some violent riots to coincide with the G20 meeting India will host in Delhi in September? Just like what happened when Trump visited. Would that embarrass India? It will be the last chance to interfere so maybe that is why things have started in right earnest.

The first time is happenstance, the second is a coincidence, and the third time is enemy action --- Goldfinger as in the book

1) I am sure you believe the rather British BBC is falsely targeting Modi (which may or may not be the case)
2) I am sure you also believe Soros is falsely targeting Modi as a part of the same coordinated attack.. Right?
Properly executed actions always have plausible deniability built in. The beauty is you can't tell either way
But Isn’t Soros also the one who so famously shorted (and sunk) the British Pound and almost single handedly nearly broke the Bank of England
This is why India nor many other countries have fully convertible currencies. It would waste our reserves to defend the currency against such attacks and if done on a regular basis would end up wiping out many years of progress. More effectively than a war.
So either 1 is false or 2 is false or both are false.. but both 1 and 2 cannot be true..
I don't follow your logic here. But both are true to those who can see it. Don't limit yourself to just these two, More are coming. This is the reason I've not interacted with anyone here. I'm pointing out contours.

We had none of this in the buildup to the last election. What is so special about this one? Jealousy? their chips are down but ours are still rising. We have a foreign minister that embarrasses them on a regular basis. We do not go along with them with their Ukraine mess so they are looking to get even.

There is a combination of forces arrayed against us and the goal is to topple a confident govt and replace it with a weak coalition.
Unfortunately a lot of whatsapp and media propaganda seems to be trying to convince people otherwise.
My sources are practitioners from the military, diplomacy or bureaucracy. These people speak on channels I follow. None of this is on whatsapp
In some ways, bracketing them together as dark western forces is the same as how some RW westerners tend to view Indians and Pakistanis as one and the same enemy :D
A lot of security stuff appears paranoid to the layperson until it isn't and by then it is too late. Fortunately, we have people apprised of the matter and awareness is being spread.

There are enough precedents out there of interference, Colour revolutions in various countries, the most notorious is what happened in Ukraine back in 2014. As a result the year after FCRA rules were tightened in India so any NGOs would be under the scanner for foreign funding used for nefarious purposes.

Didn't the Americans complain that their elections were interfered with in 2016? Obama booted out almost a hundred Russian officials as a result.

If it's nothing then great but if it is and it appears so given the grouping of these events in the short time period then there is a case for caution.
 
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Unfortunately a lot of whatsapp and media propaganda seems to be trying to convince people otherwise.
There is a lot of “attack the messenger” going on here.
I was wondering why a video about how George Soros bad was to do with Adani… only to realize that it was a preemptive attack on Soros as it seems soros spoke against modi somewhere.

No matter what Soros is or does doesn’t excuse Adani’s insider trading. We should be thankful to Hindenburg research to bring this to light so another bofors/vijay mallya/satyam/harshad mehta doesn’t happen with aam admi.
 
Let's see

Back in December around 70 kids died in Gambia due to cough syrup from an Indian company. WHO puts out a global warning against Indian cough medicine. This was a scheduled drug btw to be administered by doctors. The company was ordered closed and an investigation is ongoing but you see how Indian pharma gets tainted by WHO and globally. The same story surfaces in Uzbekistan some days later of all places. Why hasn't it happened in India?

Then we have the Chinese attempt on Dec 9 to grab a ridge which they failed. You might not think this is related but it is because right now India is rising and China is falling Every thing India gains is a loss for China. Since decoupling is occurring in China they are trying to discourage investment in India by keeping border issues alive. All they need is to grab a slice to embarrass us to get their mojo back.

Jan wears on and this BBC thing starts. Chinese money funded this. Next, we have the Adani hit which I've already explained the context of which is infrastructure. Anther thing that China does not want. Then this Soros guy jumps in. Maybe he's the one who encouraged the Hindenberg hit and is now a bit miffed that the results aren't to his liking. He's starting to look like a bumbling fool because he's tainted the opposition who are desperately trying to show they have no connection. Notice how Soros never goes after China ? because they're on the same side.

Soros still has more tricks up his sleeve. Causing civil unrest is one of them.

How about some violent riots to coincide with the G20 meeting India will host in Delhi in September? Just like what happened when Trump visited. Would that embarrass India? It will be the last chance to interfere so maybe that is why things have started in right earnest.

The first time is happenstance, the second is a coincidence, and the third time is enemy action --- Goldfinger as in the book


Properly executed actions always have plausible deniability built in. The beauty is you can't tell either way

This is why India nor many other countries have fully convertible currencies. It would waste our reserves to defend the currency against such attacks and if done on a regular basis would end up wiping out many years of progress. More effectively than a war.

I don't follow your logic here. But both are true to those who can see it. Don't limit yourself to just these two, More are coming. This is the reason I've not interacted with anyone here. I'm pointing out contours.

We had none of this in the buildup to the last election. What is so special about this one? Jealousy? their chips are down but ours are still rising. We have a foreign minister that embarrasses them on a regular basis. We do not go along with them with their Ukraine mess so they are looking to get even.

There is a combination of forces arrayed against us and the goal is to topple a confident govt and replace it with a weak coalition.

My sources are practitioners from the military, diplomacy or bureaucracy. These people speak on channels I follow. None of this is on whatsapp

A lot of security stuff appears paranoid to the layperson until it isn't and by then it is too late. Fortunately, we have people apprised of the matter and awareness is being spread.

There are enough precedents out there of interference, Colour revolutions in various countries, the most notorious is what happened in Ukraine back in 2014. As a result the year after FCRA rules were tightened in India so any NGOs would be under the scanner for foreign funding used for nefarious purposes.

Didn't the Americans complain that their elections were interfered with in 2016? Obama booted out almost a hundred Russian officials as a result.

If it's nothing then great but if it is and it appears so given the grouping of these events in the short time period then there is a case for caution.
As much as I’d like to agree with you, I can’t help but feel that you are getting too caught up in extremely complicated conspiracy theories.
Try Asking yourself what would be the Raison d'être for such a well coordinated bogeyman to exist?

As much as we’d like to imagine a perfectly coordinated conspiracy, it simply does not exist coz it is too complicated to exist


In many ways, this thread is a perfect case study to quote Occam’s razor.

The simplest and most rational explanation for each of these events is thus:

1) Hindenburg is an activist seller looking for profits.
Adani group companies presented itself as the best and largest such opportunity because of the opaque and shady accounting practises


2) BBC has liberal left leanings (Like Opindia has extreme right and the wire is extreme left). Its not at all surprising that they would try find flaws with a highly right leaning administration in one of the biggest countries of the world

3) George Soros considers himself the champion of libertarian principles - maybe he is misguided, maybe he isn’t. But again, not at all surprising to hear him speak up against what you would also agree is a very authoritarian regime (bear in mind I am not calling either libertarian or authoritarian principles as being better than the other)

4) and probably most important, a vast majority of politicians are corrupt and will take shortcuts/ bend the rules to suit their interests, either financial or for grabbing on to power.
Surely you will also agree that Adani and the govt are in a fairly solid quid-pro-quo arrangement?
(coz if that weren’t the case, there is no reason for this thread to even exist.. every single post in defense of Adani is from folks who also support the current dispensation, right? )

To conclude from my end, Life isn’t exactly black & white.
I have a fundamental disconnect with the underlying philosophy of the current administration and therefore do not support them and probably never will.
Yet it would be stupid of me to argue (for example) that they haven’t done great work on transport infrastructure and roads in particular.

Similarly, you may identify with and support the current dispensation very strongly - but i guess at least all of the informed posters here , regardless of their leanings know that Adani groups dealings and book keeping particular have been really far from kosher.
I mean c’mon, me tiny little cog-in-the-wheel individual’s personal CA and employing firm are more qualified than the one used by their behemoth of a flagship group firm :poto:
Surely you canot disregard such a bizarrely obvious red flag?:hilarious:
 
You can come up with alternative explanations for every one of the events mentioned and show there is no connection. I don't want to go into more detail as we start missing the forest for the trees.

But the common denominator with all is to make the govt look bad and in turn India, an investment destination. India is the fastest growing country in the world right now and it is going to continue for the rest of this decade. The way to maintain that is political stability.

Trendline isn't formed yet but they are coming at regular intervals and in an election year making the intent obvious. They come from different directions and actors because they share a common goal. With key areas targeted, pharma, infrastructure, stock market. Did the people who did this hit really think India would tank if Adani goes down?

I expect the Chinese to pay us a visit in Ladakh when campaign season begins Apr-Sept. They need an excuse to divert their people.

Review a few months down the line and you can see what holds and what does not.
 
know more than GOI, ED & SEBI
Is that so? I believe SEBI is a corrupt and incompetent organization that is controlled by the government. My family has been involved in the stock market since the early 1990s and we have witnessed several interesting cases. I can share some of the more recent ones with you.

SEBI gave a clean chit to these companies, even though they committed business fraud and stock manipulation. Moreover, SEBI conducted its enquiry after the shareholders had suffered losses, despite being requested to do so earlier.

Vakrangee - https://www.moneylife.in/article/vakrangees-chequered-history/53932.html
Manpasand Beverages - https://2point2capital.com/blog/index.php/a2016/12/06/the-curious-case-of-manpasand-beverages/
Treehouse Limited - https://www.livemint.com/Money/6mdhqmn3P6WutVD8O6FUbO/The-curious-case-of-Tree-House-Education.html

I can keep going with many other cases (Infibeam Avenues, Talwalkars, etc) as I have an interest in forensic investigation of companies. You can read the work of Varadha, Amit Mantri, members of Valuepickr forum who are actively scouting red flags in companies.

https://forum.valuepickr.com/t/forensics-and-the-art-of-triangulation/2580
https://forum.valuepickr.com/t/corporate-fraud-misdemeanor-public-domain-india-lessons/595

The evidence against Adani is strong and clear. If it were false, Adani would have immediately taken legal action against Hindenburg in the USA. However, they likely recognize that pursuing legal action could lead to further damaging revelations during the discovery process.

Adani's shares are slowly rising.
Dead Cat bounce! No company goes down in a linear fashion, and the same has happened with the Adani group. Most of the Adani group shares have lost significant value, and there are currently no buyers for some of the stocks, especially the biggest holding of LIC, which is Adani Total Gas. It has gone down further from the prices of February 3rd, as shown in the screenshot below, and there are still no buyers. It's currently trading at 213 times its net profit after losing more than 75% of its value. Now imagine the peak valuations.
1676782608969.png

LIC sold shares in Adani ENT at cheap to those Mauritius entities reported in Hindenburg report and bought back from them at a high valuation. Same can be verified from the historic shareholding patterns available at BSE site.
I hope we can limit our discussion to the facts of the company and not India, China, Pak, Ladakh, Soros Foros, etc.
 
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You can come up with alternative explanations for every one of the events mentioned and show there is no connection. I don't want to go into more detail as we start missing the forest for the trees.

But the common denominator with all is to make the govt look bad and in turn India, an investment destination. India is the fastest growing country in the world right now and it is going to continue for the rest of this decade. The way to maintain that is political stability.

Trendline isn't formed yet but they are coming at regular intervals and in an election year making the intent obvious. They come from different directions and actors because they share a common goal. With key areas targeted, pharma, infrastructure, stock market. Did the people who did this hit really think India would tank if Adani goes down?

I expect the Chinese to pay us a visit in Ladakh when campaign season begins Apr-Sept. They need an excuse to divert their people.

Review a few months down the line and you can see what holds and what does not.
Fair enough.
But every sinister plan needs a mastermind.

Who according to you is the Mogambo in this story?
 
Fair enough.
But every sinister plan needs a mastermind.

Who according to you is the Mogambo in this story?

Multiple players, each jostling for a leg-up in the amoral, cutthroat world of geopolitics, as it should be. In India's case, these players (and their antics) are happily lapped up by our in-house useful idiots (not referring to any member here, please).

I have absolutely no dog in this fight about Adani. I'm willing to believe there's a fair bit of cronyism involved there and maybe even a bit of manipulation. But I no longer believe in absolutes. We're not clued into the various levers of geopolitics, so making a judgment about the morality/correctness of it all is a waste of time.

Thinking about incentives can help to an extent. For example, why Soros commented now? Why BBC released this documentary now? If one has a simple answer to these questions, one doesn't know enough, period. I, however, have grown long past the stage where these incentives could be ascribed to altruistic things such as democracy, human rights, environment, religious freedom, or even fiduciary/financial regularity. These things are instruments in the pursuit of geopolitical leverage/power, not the end in itself.

This is also why I like that Hindenburg made money off of their position, that's their incentive and an open one at that. Will their assessment prove right? The market will have the answer a year from now.
 
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Who according to you is the Mogambo in this story?
Globalists and Chinese.

Globalists and their liberal media go after nationalist govts everywhere. They have a problem with every nationalist govt out there. Nationalism is a bad word for them because nationalism is bad for their business. They don't want you to make your own vaccines they want you to buy from them. They don't want you to make in India then want you to buy what they make. They want open access to your market without restrictions.

Chinese is obvious. In addition to external operations they also work within to weaken countries. They have operations all over the world where they co-opt the elites to do their bidding. As for what they do in India take a look at the report linked here

I know of similar publications going back as far as five years from Australia, NZ & the US.
 
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One reason i can think of is the West is not happy with India sitting on the fence and trying to become another Switzerland wrt the Russian -Ukranian conflict. This is just some behind the scene arm twisting tactics they are using to make India take their side.
 
As much as I’d like to agree with you, I can’t help but feel that you are getting too caught up in extremely complicated conspiracy theories.
When have I done CT in over a decade posting on such subjects :)

It's not so complicated if you know what to look for
Try Asking yourself what would be the Raison d'être for such a well coordinated bogeyman to exist?
Topple the govt and replace it with a weaker more compliant one.

Indira made it clear that between patient and patent the patient would always win. Phama's been a target since Clinton. Only exception is Bush
 
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Chinese is obvious. In addition to external operations they also work within to weaken countries. They have operations all over the world where they co-opt the elites to do their bidding. As for what they do in India take a look at the report linked here

I know of similar publications going back as far as five years from Australia, NZ & the US.

UPA or NDA, it's been a long-term dream of mine for India to grow rich enough to be able to buy out such people. Media, policymakers, think-tanks, what have you. China does it brilliantly and as a result, they've got an excellent and sustainable narrative-building capacity. Which is why it was a pleasure to see the USA, the UK, and France be absolutely quiet recently about the BBC raids and instead share the virtual dais with India toasting AI's Boeing and Airbus orders. Nothing talks like money.

Topple the govt and replace it with a weaker more compliant one.

As India routinely does in our neighbourhood/sphere of influence. Nothing wrong with that too as the pursuit of self-interests at any cost is an amoral yet necessary part of geopolitics. A feature and not a bug.

Once this frame of reference is used, it's harder to buy into the anti-Adani tirade fully. If Adani is a tool that the govt uses to further its strategic levers (related to trade, foreign policy etc.), it's obvious that the tool will be the first one in the line of geopolitical fire.

People will question this usage itself, as they'll do with the group's governance issues. Their right to do so, as it is the right of people to see the more nefarious designs possibly at play here.
 
I am suggesting the thread should be split into 2 threads. One to discuss the actual fundamentals of the Adani issue and another where all sorts of conspiracy theories can be discussed.
No, there are no conspiracy theories here at all. Can you deny the damage done was real? which means there was an intent and that is where I'm coming from.

Now tell me how these short sellers made their money. they did make out well didn't they otherwise why do it


How did Hindenburg short Adani stock?​

People familiar with the firm’s modus operandi say it may have used single stock futures and the help of western banks in Singapore

Ortenca Aliaj and Antoine Gara in New York

FEBRUARY 17 2023

When US short seller Nathan Anderson decided to take on Indian conglomerate Adani Group, he faced the ultimate challenge for someone in his line of business: India’s anti short selling rules.

The founder of New York-based Hindenburg Research has not detailed how he structured his financial bet against the infrastructure group, which he has accused of fraud and stock price manipulation in a 100-page report published last month — saying only that the firm had taken a short position in Adani “through US-traded bonds and non-Indian-traded derivative instruments”.

But three hedge fund managers who have looked at doing the trade said Anderson would likely have had to have built his position using derivatives linked to India’s largest indices, as well as US-traded bonds.

Despite Adani denying the allegations in a 400-page rebuttal, Hindenburg’s report has triggered a sell-off in the group’s listed entities, knocking more than $100bn off their combined market value.

It is the reaction Hindenburg, which profits when the price of bonds and equities linked to a company go down, was hoping for. Yet how Anderson and his team structured their trade has been a puzzle to the market.

Short sellers typically borrow stocks through a broker, sell those shares on the market and hope that the price will go down. If it does, they buy shares to hand back to the lender and pocket the difference.

However, it is difficult to short companies in India. Under the country’s securities regulation, institutional investors have to declare upfront if they are placing a short position, and brokers must upload data on shorts to the stock exchange before trading the following day.

Meanwhile, many companies — including those in the Adani Group — have a small free float, making availability of stock an issue for a would-be short seller. India does not allow so-called naked short selling, where investors can bet that a stock will fall without first borrowing the underlying security.

“I was looking at Adani myself for a short last summer and one of the reasons why I decided not to investigate it further is because of the difficulty of shorting it in India,” said Gabriel Grego, a hedge fund manager at Quintessential Capital, who is waging a short selling campaign at cyber security group Darktrace.

Offshore help

Hindenburg found a way. Investors who want to bet against an Indian company can do so using India’s main stock index, the Nifty 50, in which Adani Enterprises is one of the largest constituents, according to three hedge funds that have looked at doing the trade.

Banks with operations in Singapore, which is among the jurisdictions in which short sellers can do these types of trades, can create a product called a single stock future. These equity derivatives allow investors to get exposure to price movements on the underlying shares.

In Hindenburg’s case, it would receive the value of Adani Enterprises’ weighting in the index and the rest would be sold in the market.

The drawback for these kinds of instruments is little liquidity in the market, which means bets tend to be relatively small. Short sellers would typically use other derivatives such as credit default swaps to amp up their bets, but this is not possible in Adani Enterprises’ case because the group is not listed in CDS indices.

“There’s a reason you have to do this kind of trade on Indian stocks,” said Soren Aandahl, chief investment officer of Texas-based short selling activist investor Blue Orca Capital. “It’s the byzantine requirement of the Indian system where you can’t trade directly.”

Betting against US-listed bonds issued by various Adani entities was also an option for Hindenburg, which declined to comment for this article.

Possible partners

Anderson tends to partner with other short sellers when investigating companies, and has previously worked with Grego. While Hindenburg has declined to disclose whether the firm has partnered with other investors on Adani, a disclaimer included in the report states that one or more could be involved.

Little has been revealed about how the firm set its sights on Adani beyond the fact that the research took two years.

Two people with knowledge of the process said Hindenburg enlisted the help of an outside analyst who focused on Indian companies to investigate Adani. This analyst led the research with the help of a team of five Hindenburg employees. The team decided to release the report days before a planned $2.4bn share sale by Adani last month.

The timing was crucial because Hindenburg’s report cast doubts on the anchor investor group involved in the fundraising, which included Mauritius-based entities. The short seller alleged these had links to the Adani family and were buying shares to prop up the stock price of the listed businesses in the group. Adani has denied the allegations.

Biggest target

The Indian conglomerate founded by Gautam Adani, who until Hindenburg’s report was the world’s third-richest person, is the firm’s largest target among a small list of non-US companies it has bet against.


Because I can't figure it out. You can't make all that much short selling in the Indian stock market because there are measures that rightfully discourage it. How many here know this?

In which case this hit wasn't done to profit but to destablise
 
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Now tell me how these short sellers make their money ? they did make out well didn't they otherwise why do it
The bonds of Adani Ports, Adani Green, Adani International, Adani Transmission, and Adani Electricity Mumbai are currently trading in the bond markets, and they can be easily shorted on various international platforms. This should have resulted in a 30% return on capital, which is not bad for large capital. Most Adani stocks are cash market stocks except for Adani Ent and Adani Ports. Nate disclosed in the report that he does not hold an Indian derivatives position, but he does talk about exposure to international derivatives of Adani stocks, although it is unclear where they are traded.

Nate is not alone in looking to short Adani stocks. Many domestic and international players have attempted to do so since 2020, but they have failed to find a good way and have cancelled their plans. By uncovering this fraud, both Nate and Hindenburg have gained a significant reputation, which will benefit them in the long run. It is worth noting that not all reports are created solely for the purpose of making a profit, but also for creating goodwill. His track record is legendary, and he does not produce reports until he is certain of fraud.
 
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