PC Peripherals Any idea on M-audio StudioPro3 speakers?
- Thread starter sydras
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.What kind of music do you listen to? That's a good starting point.
Nearfield monitors don't cut in a home environment, I've got a detailed reply somewhere as to why not.
And it's not about numbers. There's a design reason, and it makes them sound thin in midfield and farfield. Unless you always sit a couple of feet away from the speakers, you better stay away from any kind of monitors, including the ones that come with a sub.
For the guy who was praising the NS-10, the only reason everyone was using the NS-10 was translation. Which basicaly meant that a lot of small startup studios were using NS10s, so ppl who trained there knew how the monitors would translate. They were actually very cheap and quite nasty, but sometimes familiarity supercedes excellence. The better engineers opted for the Mackies, Tannoys and Alesis.
Like I said, not even the 80K Mackies will be good for you.
If you want good performance without a sub, and need something that fits on your desktop, you might want to start considering some small bookshelves, but those need amps. The only things I can think of are the Klipsch 2.0 speakers, but the bass is a little, well, little, considering that they only have 3" drivers.
I can think of the MX-1, but those need an amp and I'm not sure if that is in your budget range.
Again, I can't stress how important it is to stay away from monitors if you want to *listen* to music. Monitors are meant for picky little sound engineers who sit really close to them 7 hours a day trying to pick defects in the mix, so they are too revealing for everyday listening.
Nearfield monitors don't cut in a home environment, I've got a detailed reply somewhere as to why not.
And it's not about numbers. There's a design reason, and it makes them sound thin in midfield and farfield. Unless you always sit a couple of feet away from the speakers, you better stay away from any kind of monitors, including the ones that come with a sub.
For the guy who was praising the NS-10, the only reason everyone was using the NS-10 was translation. Which basicaly meant that a lot of small startup studios were using NS10s, so ppl who trained there knew how the monitors would translate. They were actually very cheap and quite nasty, but sometimes familiarity supercedes excellence. The better engineers opted for the Mackies, Tannoys and Alesis.
Like I said, not even the 80K Mackies will be good for you.
If you want good performance without a sub, and need something that fits on your desktop, you might want to start considering some small bookshelves, but those need amps. The only things I can think of are the Klipsch 2.0 speakers, but the bass is a little, well, little, considering that they only have 3" drivers.
I can think of the MX-1, but those need an amp and I'm not sure if that is in your budget range.
Again, I can't stress how important it is to stay away from monitors if you want to *listen* to music. Monitors are meant for picky little sound engineers who sit really close to them 7 hours a day trying to pick defects in the mix, so they are too revealing for everyday listening.
Sangram, you say that they are too revealing but someone here said that the music would just sound plain and boring?
I would think that entry level studio monitors would be better than multimedia computer speakers. What do you say?
I am not too keen on bass. So weak bass would not be so bad. I am more interested in bright music where the mids and treble stand out with a good touch of bass. I feel strong bass overpowers and distorts the rest of the music.
I would think that entry level studio monitors would be better than multimedia computer speakers. What do you say?
I am not too keen on bass. So weak bass would not be so bad. I am more interested in bright music where the mids and treble stand out with a good touch of bass. I feel strong bass overpowers and distorts the rest of the music.
@ Zhops: I use the MX 5021, because I can't afford the monitors just yet, too much money invested in guitars. They work OK. I've heard the Tannoy MX-1 in nearfiled but they become too muddy. Actually all normal 'hifi' speakers in nearfield would be muddy. I'll explain why a bit later. BTW do you think you're going there on Saturday? I'd like to make it there then. PM me if you want to connect.
@sydras: That kind of depends on the application and listening habits. I love studio monitors myself, but don't know of a lot of people who have them @home. They would be better than computer speakers, but there may be better/more suitable options in regular hi-fi.
Monitors are a tool. When designing a monitor I have pretty clear design goals. I know somebody will be sitting at best a couple of feet away from them. I know they will be angled in to the listening position. I know the room will be about 150-300 square feet, I know roughly that they will be close to 'dead' sounding. I know that they will be played at 85 dB average, and will need to sustain some pretty high peaks, abut 12dB above that, maybe more (110 dB is a decent max loudness spec for a good monitor).
This means I do not have to worry unduly about off-axis response. Or about reflections, or about placement and its effect on response. I also know that there is no need of baffle step compensation.
This is a technical term, basically when a speaker driver is mounted on a baffle (the front of the speaker) its frequency response changes from free field. It exhibits a 6 dB rise from the step frequency (which basically means the bass response drops to half). This needs to be corrected in the crossover if the speaker is not in a nearfield listening position.
With monitors I don't have to correct for it at all, because this does not happen in nearfield at all (and is also the reason that monitors sound thin at a distance, or in a normal 'live' room). This is one of the biggest issues with hifi speaker design.
The thing is that all rooms boost the bass. This compensates for the baffle step, but is a pretty big question for the hifi designer. I have no clue how big the room is, what the listening distance is, where the speakers are going to be placed. So I make a compromise, which may result in a speaker that sounds muddy at close distances and in small rooms, or one that sound thin and anemic unless placed close to a boundary wall.
The second compromise is I don't how loud it's going to be played, so my driver selection will be a compromise based on the power handling, efficiency and frequency response. We can't have it all. Then there are many more, but I won't bore you.
Frankly, I think what you're looking for is the most difficult thing, which no one has an answer to, and even the designers don't really know much about the final environment and usage. This is why some really adventurous designs are so expensive, they really do it all, anywhere which has 4 walls.
Your best bet would be to audition as many things as you can, and pick the ones that sound the best to you. The trick is to listen to things at a pretty decent volume. A lot of times speakers that have little or no baffle step compensation will sound good at low volumes but start getting shouty and shrill at proper listening levels. Also listen to a lot of different tracks.
I would really look at the MX-1m if those are available. Also the Klipsch. There are a pair of small JBLs that are around, those are a bit bright because they are designed as 'monitoring bookeshelves' so are halfway between a monitor and a bookshelf.
I also think you should try out the Klipsch. They should be fine if you're not a basshead. Prime had them some time back, didn't see it on my last trip.
Listen to a drumset at Furtados, pay someone to play it. Then audition your speakers using a drum track. That is a good way to judge a well-designed system.
I'm sorry for another long, rambling and probably disconnected reply. PM me if you want any more info, I feel these threads get kind of derailed because there are as many options as are people.
@sydras: That kind of depends on the application and listening habits. I love studio monitors myself, but don't know of a lot of people who have them @home. They would be better than computer speakers, but there may be better/more suitable options in regular hi-fi.
Monitors are a tool. When designing a monitor I have pretty clear design goals. I know somebody will be sitting at best a couple of feet away from them. I know they will be angled in to the listening position. I know the room will be about 150-300 square feet, I know roughly that they will be close to 'dead' sounding. I know that they will be played at 85 dB average, and will need to sustain some pretty high peaks, abut 12dB above that, maybe more (110 dB is a decent max loudness spec for a good monitor).
This means I do not have to worry unduly about off-axis response. Or about reflections, or about placement and its effect on response. I also know that there is no need of baffle step compensation.
This is a technical term, basically when a speaker driver is mounted on a baffle (the front of the speaker) its frequency response changes from free field. It exhibits a 6 dB rise from the step frequency (which basically means the bass response drops to half). This needs to be corrected in the crossover if the speaker is not in a nearfield listening position.
With monitors I don't have to correct for it at all, because this does not happen in nearfield at all (and is also the reason that monitors sound thin at a distance, or in a normal 'live' room). This is one of the biggest issues with hifi speaker design.
The thing is that all rooms boost the bass. This compensates for the baffle step, but is a pretty big question for the hifi designer. I have no clue how big the room is, what the listening distance is, where the speakers are going to be placed. So I make a compromise, which may result in a speaker that sounds muddy at close distances and in small rooms, or one that sound thin and anemic unless placed close to a boundary wall.
The second compromise is I don't how loud it's going to be played, so my driver selection will be a compromise based on the power handling, efficiency and frequency response. We can't have it all. Then there are many more, but I won't bore you.
Frankly, I think what you're looking for is the most difficult thing, which no one has an answer to, and even the designers don't really know much about the final environment and usage. This is why some really adventurous designs are so expensive, they really do it all, anywhere which has 4 walls.
Your best bet would be to audition as many things as you can, and pick the ones that sound the best to you. The trick is to listen to things at a pretty decent volume. A lot of times speakers that have little or no baffle step compensation will sound good at low volumes but start getting shouty and shrill at proper listening levels. Also listen to a lot of different tracks.
I would really look at the MX-1m if those are available. Also the Klipsch. There are a pair of small JBLs that are around, those are a bit bright because they are designed as 'monitoring bookeshelves' so are halfway between a monitor and a bookshelf.
I also think you should try out the Klipsch. They should be fine if you're not a basshead. Prime had them some time back, didn't see it on my last trip.
Listen to a drumset at Furtados, pay someone to play it. Then audition your speakers using a drum track. That is a good way to judge a well-designed system.
I'm sorry for another long, rambling and probably disconnected reply. PM me if you want any more info, I feel these threads get kind of derailed because there are as many options as are people.
zhopudey
Galvanizer
Sangram, thanks for the detailed response. I was looking for a clearer explanation as to studio monitors would not be a good buy for a consumer. I don't exactly require professional audio.....more like prosumer is what I would settle for.
JBL duet is the only 2.0 multimedia set available. Seems like I'll have to settle with Klipsch(if I can find it in B'lore.).
JBL duet is the only 2.0 multimedia set available. Seems like I'll have to settle with Klipsch(if I can find it in B'lore.).
I'm sorry, I said I probably missed the point.
In a nutshell, in a home you're not listening dead on axis a couple of feet away, so you basically need speakers with a pretty wide sweet spot, an off-axis response that is pretty consistent, and a decent amount of baffle step compensation so that you can listen to from an armchair or the next room.
IME very few studio monitors meet the above, because they are not designed to do any of those, actually in many ways designed to do the exact opposite. Some have a wider sweet spot, but most don't have any BSC at all because they would then sound muddy at the right distance.
I actually made a pretty big mistake with this, and not too far back in time, but in reverse. I picked up components for a hifi design, thinking they would work in nearfield, but they do not. But I digress.
So in a sentence, again: Studio monitors will sound thin, harsh and bright in a normal room in normal music listening positions and circumstances. This is a sweeping generalisation, driven primarily by the lack of any BSC, and the fact they are designed around a narrow listening spot with controlled directivity.
Those JBLs are called Control1, but they are passive. So you would need an amp. Honestly I think the Klipsch are your best bet, compact and decent sounding.
All the best in your search.
In a nutshell, in a home you're not listening dead on axis a couple of feet away, so you basically need speakers with a pretty wide sweet spot, an off-axis response that is pretty consistent, and a decent amount of baffle step compensation so that you can listen to from an armchair or the next room.
IME very few studio monitors meet the above, because they are not designed to do any of those, actually in many ways designed to do the exact opposite. Some have a wider sweet spot, but most don't have any BSC at all because they would then sound muddy at the right distance.
I actually made a pretty big mistake with this, and not too far back in time, but in reverse. I picked up components for a hifi design, thinking they would work in nearfield, but they do not. But I digress.
So in a sentence, again: Studio monitors will sound thin, harsh and bright in a normal room in normal music listening positions and circumstances. This is a sweeping generalisation, driven primarily by the lack of any BSC, and the fact they are designed around a narrow listening spot with controlled directivity.
Those JBLs are called Control1, but they are passive. So you would need an amp. Honestly I think the Klipsch are your best bet, compact and decent sounding.
All the best in your search.
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