PC Peripherals APC UPS in smoke!

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teche said:
@Toxic, my pleasure!

I bought a new Inverter+Battery setup today & asked the owner of the shop about the technical details. Though I do not believe in him totally because of relative lack of knowledge among masses! Still, he told me that its not much of use connecting a UPS-Inverter in line/series because the the 2nd device would drain the 1st in no time (recharging) during power cut & drain the 1st device in no time.

I will try further to clear my doubts from some technical person & give inputs.

I have a similar setup.

The APC 800VA Inverter + an Amaron Battery.

The Inverter supports 3 fans, 3 tube lights , TV , Cordless , 2 lamps and the power outlet where my 500VA UPS is connected.

Now, not all the above are powered simultaneously.Infact, it usually shows 25-50 % load when the power cut occurs.Unnecessary appliances are turned off.

My question :

Since my comp (thro' the UPS) is connected to a power outlet supported by the inverter, it obviously draws powers from the same.

Now the fact that the UPS switches to backup mode for a second and then back to mains(i.e supply from inverter) is what worries me !

Will it affect my UPS in the future.

In spite of the UPS reverting to the mains(inverter) during the power cut, I take the precaution of turning off my PC asap.

Excuse the long explanation. :ashamed:
 
teche said:
@Blrp, I guess its not about the blame game! Moreover my genset has worked marvelously for the last ~25yrs, without a hitch & touchwood for future. During this long tenure we have used a lot of sensitive equipment on it & everything worked fine. Its just now that the APC UPS got reduced to ashes. My grouse is with APC for supplying below par equipment not properly caliberated to Indian needs & conditions.
The UPS also states to have a surge protector built in, what bloody use is it of, if it can't safeguard itself leave alone the attached equipment.

I wouldn't blame APC. if you see the manual then it clearly mentions input voltage for the said UPS model. Above which it will definitely blow.... It was a silly mistake on your part to connect the UPS to Generator. All generators start with a surge... Any electrical equipment can catch fire when they get higher than supported voltage. This can occur anytime without warning. Nobody can guarantee if a fire would start or not for such equipment under these circumstances....
 
teche said:
@Blrp, I guess its not about the blame game! Moreover my genset has worked marvelously for the last ~25yrs, without a hitch & touchwood for future. During this long tenure we have used a lot of sensitive equipment on it & everything worked fine.

Its just now that the APC UPS got reduced to ashes. My grouse is with APC for supplying below par equipment not properly caliberated to Indian needs & conditions.
The UPS also states to have a surge protector built in, what bloody use is it of, if it can't safeguard itself leave alone the attached equipment.

Well something is not right here. Earlier someone mentioned you needed a servo controlled stabiliser from the genset.

Are you saying you had one, think not, so question then is why other sensitive equipment in the past was not affected ?

As genset will have been giving surges right from day one each time it came on.
 
well connecting a ups to a 25year old genset is abuse,since the apc manual/ specs clearly say operating voltage of 0 to 320v only,with gen sets giving voltage of 400v its no suprise that it went up in smoke,so u can't say the apc is not caliberated for indian household.apc would have definetly not recommend to use their ups to a 25year old gererator.in huge companies they do use generators,but they have a built in power conditioners.so u don't get those insane voltages.
now i am not sure whats the so called sensitve equipment that withstood the voltage surge from ur generator,any ups or invertor will not withstand if u give it 400v.u must also know that apc ups are very sensitive since it senses a high voltage within 2 cycles and gives a correction and in india we get 50cycles in 1 second.unlike some rival cheap ups brands and even some well respected companies like HP ups which i have seen them giving high voltage briefly,or do not switch to back up fast inuff.so u should be thankfull that the apc didn't take anything else with it.
 
thetoxicmind said:
Since my comp (thro' the UPS) is connected to a power outlet supported by the inverter, it obviously draws powers from the same.
Now the fact that the UPS switches to backup mode for a second and then back to mains(i.e supply from inverter) is what worries me !
Will it affect my UPS in the future.
In this case I think the UPS will draw power quickly from Inverter in case of main power shutdown ie. the operation time of Inverter will fall drastically.

These days most of the Inverters have a built in UPS which negates the need of additional UPS.
HailStonE said:
I wouldn't blame APC. if you see the manual then it clearly mentions input voltage for the said UPS model. Above which it will definitely blow.... It was a silly mistake on your part to connect the UPS to Generator. All generators start with a surge... Any electrical equipment can catch fire when they get higher than supported voltage. This can occur anytime without warning. Nobody can guarantee if a fire would start or not for such equipment under these circumstances....

This APC UPS also states that comes with a surge protector, its almost understood that it takes care of fluctuations.
blr_p said:
Well something is not right here. Earlier someone mentioned you needed a servo controlled stabiliser from the genset.

Are you saying you had one, think not, so question then is why other sensitive equipment in the past was not affected ?

As genset will have been giving surges right from day one each time it came on.

No, I haven't installed a stablizer as of now. Today I came to know that the fault was actually with the Electricity department as they were carrying out repairs to the transformer which supplies us power. So, it wasn't our generator's fault, the culprit was State electricity board.

In this case, how can one judge that they would be transmitting such high voltage that would destroy equipment prior to damage! That means there's no way one can take precaution by switching off as you never know when the next power surge is coming!

adder said:
well connecting a ups to a 25year old genset is abuse,since the apc manual/ specs clearly say operating voltage of 0 to 320v only,with gen sets giving voltage of 400v its no suprise that it went up in smoke,so u can't say the apc is not caliberated for indian household.apc would have definetly not recommend to use their ups to a 25year old gererator.in huge companies they do use generators,but they have a built in power conditioners.so u don't get those insane voltages.
now i am not sure whats the so called sensitve equipment that withstood the voltage surge from ur generator,any ups or invertor will not withstand if u give it 400v.u must also know that apc ups are very sensitive since it senses a high voltage within 2 cycles and gives a correction and in india we get 50cycles in 1 second.unlike some rival cheap ups brands and even some well respected companies like HP ups which i have seen them giving high voltage briefly,or do not switch to back up fast inuff.so u should be thankfull that the apc didn't take anything else with it.

I don't see any merit in your statement, being old doesn't negate/take away any thing. Remember old is gold & this particular genset is still in pristine running condition because its old, newer gadgets/equipment is not built to last(poor quality). We have 2 newer gensets too but both are usually out of order or on repairs. Now, which one is better!
APC being newer here should have launched products keeping in mind Indian conditions where electricity surges are an order of the day. Earlier also someone told me that APC UPS doesn't run well on generators, old or new.

Finally, as I have pin pointed the problem which was at State electricity board's end, takes the load off the generator. In such case only the products which can withstand such power situations are worthy, others are not meant for our Country & the ones using such equipment should be warned against failures & accidents.

As I already stated, our local/Indian inverters also ran on similar power which went to APC, but lived through well. While APC smoked!

Think about it, a big company or an expensive product should not be the criteria while buying, which we Indians usually do! Our homemade products are bad, rather are more used to/familiar with our power conditions & perform well/better. Others like APC be damned!
Moreover look at APC's policy, even within gurantee/warranty period, they only supply refurbished products, why not new???? I'd say pathetic policy!
On a diff. note, I couldn't find good stabilizers in my City, will try from Chandigarh now.
 
Finally, as I have pin pointed the problem which was at State electricity board's end, takes the load off the generator. In such case only the products which can withstand such power situations are worthy, others are not meant for our Country & the ones using such equipment should be warned against failures & accidents.

Let us know if any can :)

These sorts of surges are rare but when they happen, you are on your own :(

Unless extensive damage was caused in the neighbourhood and the ppl are lining up with machetes to trash the local discom.
 
teche said:
In this case I think the UPS will draw power quickly from Inverter in case of main power shutdown ie. the operation time of Inverter will fall drastically.

These days most of the Inverters have a built in UPS which negates the need of additional UPS.

Sorry, my question was, if it would affect my UPS (PC) in any way?
I'm already aware of what you have stated above.
 
@Blrp, these sort of surges are pretty common due to the onging power woes in State.
Residents seem to be living with it as no one has the time/energy to spare!
@Toxic, Im not sure but heard that APC doesn't advocate connecting its UPS to any surge protector, device, etc. About Inverter Im not sure but guess if its a Sine wave, it should be fine.
Still I shall be going to a couple of places to find out more & would update.
 
@teche
are u using ur new invertor without using a stabilizer bad idea.since i am pretty sure that a invertor won't do any AVR,where as a UPS will.
my guess as to why ur other invertors survived is that they just passed on the highvoltage to the connected appliances,where as the APC tried to do AVR,which i guess couldn't handle the voltage outside its operating range and by it going kaput ,may have protected the other devices connected to it.

and by me saying the 25year old generator, sure old is gold only in somecases,i bet there are far better newer generators that are more efficient,they may have a built in Hi-Lo cut off.
 
teche said:
This APC UPS also states that comes with a surge protector, its almost understood that it takes care of fluctuations.

Every surge protector has a range beyond which it cannot tolerate the voltage.... Why don't you think people use computer spike guard on heavy electrical equipments say factory machinery...

How would a surge protector react to voltages outside its operating range cannot be guaranteed by anyone. it may burst, fail, transmit the voltage ahead or may even burn down.... You cannot expect your UPS to handle such huge spike.. I agree with adder, your APC might have saved you a lot of cash by saving your precious equipment ahead...
 
@Toxic, just came back from market, enquired from everywhere but people don't seem to know much about tech. stuff. There were contradictory statements.
Then I proceeded towards a stabilizer solution. Here I needed to know the power (watts) details of a Laptop + wifi modem. I did not know the exact detail but asked the guy to make a 1KV stabilizer which I think should suffice for a Laptop + wifi modem + a printer AIO in future.
Now, only locally made stabilizers are available in my City. A few National companies like Johnson, etc. do have a small presence. These people suggested me the following stabilizer setup:
Normal 1KV stabilizer + Hi/Lo cutout + timer.
Total cost varied from brand to brand, aprox. between 2-3k.
The logic they give behind this setup is that the stabilizer would cut the supply in both hi(>/=270V) & Lo (</=130v) & timer would come handy in safeguarding against initial high spikes during which load distribution takes place.

I don't how good/bad the above mentioned setup is but this is all Im getting my City. I haven't placed an order for one as of now because I wan't to know what Techenclavians have to say on it.
@Adder, a stabilizer for everything will become a costly affair!
In case the other inverters transmitted high voltages across, some equipment should have suffered damage but everything is running fine.
More importantly other Inverters don't advertise spike/surge protection, APC does!
True, connected devices to APC were saved but luckily I was around. Had I not been around, the whole equipment + don't know what all could have been gutted.
@Hailstone, I don't know what for sure saved my equipment! According to me UPS should have had a cutout in case it cannot handle higher frequencies.
 
teche said:
@Toxic, just came back from market, enquired from everywhere but people don't seem to know much about tech. stuff. There were contradictory statements.
Then I proceeded towards a stabilizer solution. Here I needed to know the power (watts) details of a Laptop + wifi modem. I did not know the exact detail but asked the guy to make a 1KV stabilizer which I think should suffice for a Laptop + wifi modem + a printer AIO in future.
Now, only locally made stabilizers are available in my City. A few National companies like Johnson, etc. do have a small presence. These people suggested me the following stabilizer setup:
Normal 1KV stabilizer + Hi/Lo cutout + timer.
Total cost varied from brand to brand, aprox. between 2-3k.
The logic they give behind this setup is that the stabilizer would cut the supply in both hi(>/=270V) & Lo (</=130v) & timer would come handy in safeguarding against initial high spikes during which load distribution takes place.

I don't how good/bad the above mentioned setup is but this is all Im getting my City. I haven't placed an order for one as of now because I wan't to know what Techenclavians have to say on it.
@Adder, a stabilizer for everything will become a costly affair!
In case the other inverters transmitted high voltages across, some equipment should have suffered damage but everything is running fine.
More importantly other Inverters don't advertise spike/surge protection, APC does!
True, connected devices to APC were saved but luckily I was around. Had I not been around, the whole equipment + don't know what all could have been gutted.

well the stabilizer u have ordered should do the job.
well other device,may have suffered some damage ,the devices life would have certainly shortened.there is a difference b/w brief power surge and continous steady high voltage.many a times i have seen in bangalore high voltages at night easily crossing the 300v mark,the apc ups goes to backup mode at any voltages above 260v.
apc do sell stabilizer although not in india due to customers opting for a ups. i remember reading somewhere that they will refund the price of the connected device whose price can range upto $100000 ,if the connected device fails due to power surge(i.e the device connected to apc).
 
Thanks Adder for passing the mentioned configuration.
I hope the life of other devices has not shortened!
If my APC reveted to back up in excess of 270V, then did the persistent high voltage did it in? But I remember it was only for a couple of seconds that it ran before getting smoked!

APC should provide stabilizers in India also with the same scheme but I don't see that happening ie. Stabilizer might arrive but the similar offer will never!
P.S: One stabilizer supplier ridiculed the mentioned setup saying that nothing can save from such high spikes not even a cutout. Maybe he was lying because he did not have the desired equipment.
 
teche said:
Thanks Adder for passing the mentioned configuration.
I hope the life of other devices has not shortened!
If my APC reveted to back up in excess of 270V, then did the persistent high voltage did it in? But I remember it was only for a couple of seconds that it ran before getting smoked!

APC should provide stabilizers in India also with the same scheme but I don't see that happening ie. Stabilizer might arrive but the similar offer will never!
P.S: One stabilizer supplier ridiculed the mentioned setup saying that nothing can save from such high spikes not even a cutout. Maybe he was lying because he did not have the desired equipment.

well here is what the apc ups would have done, sensing that the input voltage has crossed the 260 to 270v, it switched to backup mode.since at any higher voltage the apc cannot give the steady regulated 220v to 230v output,hence switched to backup where it will still maintain the 220v to 230v output.but once the voltage crossed the 320v mark which is the maximum it can withstand,it did its job by protecting with some free fireworks show ,anyway did u notice whether the apc was still giving backup even after it was going up in smoke?.
 
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