Are EVs really sustainable in India if most electricity is still coal-based?

sandclouds

sandclouds

Beginner
Hey everyone,


I've been thinking a lot about the sustainability of electric vehicles (EVs) in the Indian context. While EVs are marketed as "green" and emission-free, I feel there's a bigger picture we often miss — where the electricity is coming from.


In India, a large chunk of our power still comes from coal-fired power plants. So, if we’re charging our EVs using coal-generated electricity, are we really reducing emissions overall? Or are we just shifting pollution from cities to power plants?


Of course, EVs do reduce local air pollution, which is a huge win for urban areas. But from a climate and sustainability point of view, are they as clean as they’re made out to be right now?


Would love to hear what u guys think. Are there any efforts or policies in place to make EV charging more dependent on renewable sources here? How can we make the EV ecosystem genuinely sustainable in India?
 
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sandclouds said:
Of course, EVs do reduce local air pollution, which is a huge win for urban areas. But from a climate and sustainability point of view, are they as clean as they’re made out to be right now?
Click to expand...

I think that the biggest setback for a sustainable electric-vehicle ecosystem is their battery technology, which, at present, almost negates all the benefits obtained by recycling and reusing the other parts.
 
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Well I don't give a shid about sustainability. We are going to have a population collapse which is the no. 1 threat currently (but that is a separate thread of discussion). But I will give my technical opinion.

1. EVs are cool tech. A natural technological progression in mobility. (I say this as a mechanical engineer). You don't want your cpu, motherboard to be vacuum tubes and your HDD to be take drive. Do you?

2. A coal plant is like 3x to 4x more efficient than an ICE. And the pollution is more treated, controlled and dispersed than directly in our faces (literally).

3. Infra is changing rapidly. In a century, nuclear and solar will be the most dominant power generation methods.

4. Tech is changing rapidly. Tech of both the products and the manufacturing. Don't make perfect the enemy of the good. Eg. Investment in curing edge battery tech (like solid state batteries) is only possible because of EV popularity and regulatory push.

As a libertarian I just wish the govt doesn't get too involved in this and spoil everything. But I'm don't want perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
War drives Innovation. Drone wars will fast track battery tech/sustainable clean alternate energy not some silly looking 2/4 wheeler EVs. EVs will benefit in the end,def won't be the driving force.
 
for all the naysayers, I'm just gonna leave it here (not mine) ; )

Infographic link : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q20CT5IqpzSwiTMJgP9ZLssr4PQ6BgCY/view

If we consider the grid usage in charging, the 100% coal scenario (worst case), the avg grid emissions as of 2020 was 614gCO2/kWh or 0.614gCO2/Wh. (Figures taken from page 5 graph of this pdf : https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/EV-emissions-impacts-India-apr2021-01.pdf)

An EV like Nexon can get efficiency of 120Wh/km

An EV like Tiago can get even better at 100Wh/km

By this calculation, a 100% coal powered Nexon EV has a running emission of 74gCO2/km.

For Tiago EV it’s 62gCO2/km.

For reference, you can check emissions of common Maruti cars, cars which are known for “kitna deti hai”. As rule of thumb, more mileage = less emissions

Pdf pg11, indexed pg6 : https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/India-hybrids-wp-FINAL.pdf

All Maruti cars except baleno SHVS are above 100gCO2/km. Baleno makes the cut barely at 99.6gCO2/km. So by default all others cars which have lesser mileage than maruti cars, will always pollute more than EV even without calculation

That’s when we counted 100% coal power. In reality only 60% is coal which puts nexon and Tiago at 44gCO2/km and 37gCO2/km.

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1983201

This is purely tailpipe to smokestack comparison

As of today, EVs are 19% cleaner all things considered https://theicct.org/publication/a-g...ombustion-engine-and-electric-passenger-cars/

So before you say “but what about battery production”, remember that oil extraction uses electric/diesel pump. 40% of global shipping is just for oil and it’s derivatives, and refining again uses electric furnace or fossil fuel burning to generate heat for fractional distillation. Conservative estimates put oil refining alone at 2-3kWh/litre

https://qz.com/2113243/forty-percent-of-all-shipping-cargo-consists-of-fossil-fuels

When you add all this to the mix, you’ll see why EVs are better (one time mining + 92% recycling efficiency)

Recycling :

It’s oil extraction which must be compared with battery production as the logical analogue

Crude oil and refined derivatives of oil make up 40% of global shipping by weight.

https://qz.com/2113243/forty-percent-of-all-shipping-cargo-consists-of-fossil-fuels

Global shipping produced 646M tons CO2 in 2020 (IEA) 40% of that is 258.4M tCO2 or 258.4trillion gCO2 https://www.iea.org/fuels-and-technologies/international-shipping

In same period, oil production was 93.9M barrels/day or 14390 Million L per day, or 5.45trillion L per year https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-2021

Methane flaring from oil rigs during the same period produced 269M ton CO2 or 269 trillion gCO2 https://www.iea.org/energy-system/fossil-fuels/gas-flaring

Adjusted emission in gCO2/litre = 96.8gCO2/litre

Applying the same to refining, at 614gCO2/kWh like the article assumes for the grid, is 1535gCO2/litre (assuming electric furnaces used for fractional distillation) in 100% coal power and for 60% coal this is 921gCO2/litre of oil.

Now adding 96.8g from shipping ie 1018g.

Out of this, roughly 40% becomes petrol. https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-products-and-fuels-made-from-crude-oil/

Net “emission backlog” = 407g/L (40% of 1018)

When adjusted for mileage, the oil supply chain will be 19.4gCO2/km for Tiago (407/20)

For a Tiago driven at 20kmpl for 1,60,000km, the emissions just from fuel supply chain (before being burnt) itself is 3096kgCO2 (3.1tons) before being filled in the tank itself.

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...ace-to-decarbonize-electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery production produces about 100kgCO2/kWh but the main point here is that this is a recyclable entity. An equivalent Tiago EV will cause 2.4 tons of CO2 emission for battery but the emission would be 3.1 tons for ICE during same use period, which is way higher than EV battery. Due to the oil extraction, refining and transport emissions.

The breakeven can be calculated very simply through the intersection point of linear equations.

For Tiago EV Tiago petrol you can look at this graph here :
https://imgur.com/CtxzCvw

First equation (2.4t for battery one time and 37g every km in current scenario)

Second equation (2.4t for the battery and 61g every km when 100% coal)

Third equation (0t for battery + 19.4g for oil supply chain every km driven + 100g for tailpipe every km driven)

I’m using baleno SHVS tailpipe as reference for Tiago so it should be fair enough.

All in all, the breakeven for Tiago is barely 30K km in current scenario (60%coal) and 40K km for worst case (100% coal) scenario
Click to expand...

Source: https://www.reddit.com/user/_7567Rex/
 
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