Car & Bike Ather scooters

[awestorr]

Looking to get a new scooter this diwali.

Currently Ather rizta z 2.9kw looks like a good deal compared to the competition at around 1.48lkh.

Ather seems to be favoured wrt build quality and service.
Would like to hear about your experience.
Some things that i m confused on.

1) What is the service cost of these vehicles?
They say less moving parts, less expense etc
But people say that break pads,chains etc wear out and are expensive to replace.
What should i expect to be yearly maintenance cost of the vehicle.

2) What are the things that should be kept in mind after shifting to ev from ice.

 

[blr_p]

Initial impressions video I found recently

They make them in bangalore apparently

Review to come in several weeks after he's ridden it around the block a few times

 

[smnrock]

They make them in bangalore apparently

Hosur or Bangalore?

 

[blr_p]

Hosur or Bangalore?

That guy is from Bombay so it's all the same

 

[Heisen]

My advice, don't buy the EV scooters yet, I have seen various reels on insta people making in the service center showing lot of scooters that are stuck, unrepairable and waiting for parts. I can't say anything about Ather, but they must be facing the similar kinds of issues that other ev companies are facing, they might have the right approach to deal with such things that's why they seem to be better then the other players.

ICE scooters are even more reliable now due to being fuel injected, no early morning no start conditions. No choke. Guaranteed to go beyond 1lakh kms. Their maintenance may seem like trouble to people but it is very simple in nature. Two most important things that must be changed every 6 months or 6000 kms (whichever is earlier) are engine oil and air filter, every 2 years the gear oil must be changed, rest of the parts (spark plug, fuel injector, brake pads, suspension, tyres, fuel filter, battery etc) are in replace if bad category. Then there are things like (throttle body cleaning, valve clearance adjustment, brake wire adjustment, clutch housing cleaning etc) are suppose to be done once in a while and that's it. There is nothing much to it.

 

[psyph3r]

Ather bikes are much more refined products compared to the beta test that is Ola, even though Hero owns almost 40% in Ather they haven't been able to capture the market due to the poor marketing, family feud and the high cost of entry, Rizta marks their foray into that segment. That being said the battery life is stated to be good for 50k kms and it costs 65k to replace (for the 450x that is), on average you should be good for 7 years at least.
Service interval is 5k kms and costs 1-1.5k per service again for the 450x, just remember that some fancy features are sold as subscription plans going by my friends' experience.
TVS iQube is another decent option that doesn't have the reputation of going up in flames.

Also consider taking another look at ICE scooters, TVS recently launched the new Jupiter that ticks all the boxes.

 

[desiibond]

Have the 450X, purchased back in 2021. I think I paid some 600/- for first service and some 1400/- for second service. Only one service needed per year. Spares are cheap. Till date, we had zero reliability issues. After one accident, had to change brake levers and some parts on the left side and those attached to footboard. They gave scooter back the same day. Bad luck is that it happened when insurance expired and ended up paying 6k. Renewed insurance immediately and not going to miss again.

Go with common colors that has more sales and you won’t have to wait for parts in case of accident.
Not going to go back to ICE scooters and get fleeced by service guys every 3 months. Moreover, ride quality and difference im ride quality is so big between ICE and EV that for us, ICE scooters are history. Not gonna change my bike though any time soon (NS200). My bike still trumps 450x overall.

 

[awestorr]

Have the 450X, purchased back in 2021. I think I paid some 600/- for first service and some 1400/- for second service. Only one service needed per year. Spares are cheap. Till date, we had zero reliability issues. After one accident, had to change brake levers and some parts on the left side and those attached to footboard. They gave scooter back the same day. Bad luck is that it happened when insurance expired and ended up paying 6k. Renewed insurance immediately and not going to miss again.



Go with common colors that has more sales and you won’t have to wait for parts in case of accident.

Thanks i have been wanting to get some feedback from owners.
Some people have said that parts are much expensive compared to ice vehicles , however majority have no issues with service.
Also how much did u buy it for and which variant 2.9 or 3.7kwh

 

[desiibond]

Mine is gen2 and I think I paid 1.50L for the scooter. Do not remember wattage. Range is 90km. Gen 3 has bigger battery and range. There are no problem with spares for 450x as we are into 4th generation and people are now buying this one left and right. With Rizta, you may face some shortage initially but as the production ramps up, you should not have any problem. I was told the same thing that service is a problem when I was purchasing the 450X. I am pretty gentle with my vehicles and take good care of them. So, took the plunge and it was the right decision. 2000/- for two years of services is like peanuts, compared to how much we pay for ICE vehicles.

Other costs:

1. I took Ather connect on offer where I paid 1999/- for 3 years. https://www.atherenergy.com/ather-connect
2. Ather Battery Protect : 2 years extended warranty on battery, expires on 24-Nov-2026. If battery capacity falls below 70% in 5 years, they will replace battery free of cost. There was offer again for this, paid 4500/- for extended warranty. Given that battery is the only one that can go bad in an EV, this was worth the price.

Most of these offers fall around Ather Community Day that happens every year. Those who attend this will get some extra offers like discounts on their accessories as well.

PS: If you are not into this family type scooter etc, try 450X and make sure you try the Warp mode (Rizta won't have warp, don't think it has sports mode as well).

 

[awestorr]

@desiibond thx for the feedback.
these days ather connect and battery protect comes bundled with the pro pack .
rizta 2.9kwh with 100km truerange costs 1.5lkh including all this.

i have taken a test drive on rizta.
ibride a bike, however felt like ather was much fast in acceleration as compared to my friend's activa.
Have heard that warp mode is much more thrilling. Will probably end up taking a test drive on 450x later .
Would have gone with 450x but family members will also be using this, the trunk space and magic twist are also exclusive to rizta for now.
Lets see what happens .

 

[desiibond]

@desiibond thx for the feedback.
these days ather connect and battery protect comes bundled with the pro pack .
rizta 2.9kwh with 100km truerange costs 1.5lkh including all this.

i have taken a test drive on rizta.
ibride a bike, however felt like ather was much fast in acceleration as compared to my friend's activa.
Have heard that warp mode is much more thrilling. Will probably end up taking a test drive on 450x later .
Would have gone with 450x but family members will also be using this, the trunk space and magic twist are also exclusive to rizta for now.
Lets see what happens .

Take your family along and try both scooters. I have two kids, 7 and 9. Till date, 450x never struggled when myself wife and kids go on single scooter. If you want comfort and sedate riding, Rizta and TVS iQube are really good. Major plus point of Rizta compared to 450x is its lower seat height. If you want something that does not break a sweat to accelerate even with four riders, go with 450x. If possible try solo test ride of 450 Apex. Bloody thing goes like a cheetah in warp mode.

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

I had 2 reasons to not buy an EV:
- Battery's long term health - unknown territory for Indian companies - if battery is gone post warranty, overall it will end up costing more than ICE scooter along with its fuel & maintenance charges
- Charging - Not many removable battery options, I like Rizta but it doesn't have a removable battery. Sadly I'm not rich enough to live in a big apartment where I can easily install a charger point in my dedicated parking. I was considering Vida V1 pro but later decided against that as well. I change house every few years as well according to job, so the EV charging point will be another constraint in already messy Bengaluru real estate.
- I'm a tall guy, except Rizta other EVs are kind of small for me (honestly all scooters are).

So mainly for convenience, I opted for Activa 125 recently. My father has an old Activa 110c which is almost 14 years old now & honestly it just gets its engine oil changed maybe twice a year. His running is not a lot, it clocked 30k km till now. Another friend has 2016 Activa 125, which is used very roughly, had multiple accidents and had some realtively expensive repairs (3-4k) multiple times because of that, but still runs. I feel it was similar in quality to old Bajaj or TVS, his repair costs would have been much higher than what he paid.

If you are fine with cons of EVs, go for Rizta IMO. It would have been my choice if my situation was different when it comes to accommodation.

 

[desiibond]

I had 2 reasons to not buy an EV:
- Battery's long term health - unknown territory for Indian companies - if battery is gone post warranty, overall it will end up costing more than ICE scooter along with its fuel & maintenance charges

It is time that we put aside this argument about battery safety and battery cost at least for settled brands like Ather in EVs.

Li-Ion price kept falling. I think it is 5-6% per year. Ather battery pack price kept falling YoY. Two years ago, it costed 50k-55k and now it costs 40k IIRC (2.9 kWh). It used to cost 80k-90k back in 2019-2020. Ather Protect gives 5 year warranty where if the battery peak capacity goes below 70% of its rated peak capacity, they replace battery free of cost. If I buy a new scooter now with Ather Protect, if I have to change battery after 6-7 years, it should not cost more than 20k given how price is coming down.

Long term health. I get to talk to other Ather owners and there are many using first gen 450 and their battery is still going pretty strong. I do not know about other brands but Ather's battery reliability is not in 'unknown territory'. There will always be cases where some users face battery related issues and Ather Protect is there to fix that.

- Charging - Not many removable battery options, I like Rizta but it doesn't have a removable battery. Sadly I'm not rich enough to live in a big apartment where I can easily install a charger point in my dedicated parking. I was considering Vida V1 pro but later decided against that as well. I change house every few years as well according to job, so the EV charging point will be another constraint in already messy Bengaluru real estate.

Safety. Removable batteries have been safety hazards. We have seen enough instances of fire killing people and burning down homes as people are so foolish that they would take zero precautions for charing. Their stupidity resulted in government looking to put restriction on EVs and how batteries are used.

 

[awestorr]

One thing, i would like to add is ather chargers (except for top variants), are 350 watt only, making it usable even on a 5A plug without earthing.

 

[desiibond]

Yes and this is how I am charging as I stay in independent house. Will be moving to own house next year and will be getting dedicated charging station setup for my parking space that has power derived from solar energy.

 

[n1r0]

It is time that we put aside this argument about ... battery cost at least for settled brands like Ather in EVs.

Since you're well versed with Ather, could you please provide total running costs for 25k, 50k, 75k and 1 lakh km (vehicle cost + running cost + service cost + battery replacement if paying out of pocket)

The break even point for ICE vs EV should include the cost of a replacement battery for the latter else it's essentially scrap once the battery wears out. Can't even sell it off without a proper battery.

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

It is time that we put aside this argument about battery safety and battery cost at least for settled brands like Ather in EVs.

Li-Ion price kept falling. I think it is 5-6% per year. Ather battery pack price kept falling YoY. Two years ago, it costed 50k-55k and now it costs 40k IIRC (2.9 kWh). It used to cost 80k-90k back in 2019-2020. Ather Protect gives 5 year warranty where if the battery peak capacity goes below 70% of its rated peak capacity, they replace battery free of cost. If I buy a new scooter now with Ather Protect, if I have to change battery after 6-7 years, it should not cost more than 20k given how price is coming down.

Long term health. I get to talk to other Ather owners and there are many using first gen 450 and their battery is still going pretty strong. I do not know about other brands but Ather's battery reliability is not in 'unknown territory'. There will always be cases where some users face battery related issues and Ather Protect is there to fix that.


Safety. Removable batteries have been safety hazards. We have seen enough instances of fire killing people and burning down homes as people are so foolish that they would take zero precautions for charing. Their stupidity resulted in government looking to put restriction on EVs and how batteries are used.

Valid points but for #2 I still feel most people like me won't be able to secure a spot for charging. See the number of 2 wheelers & even 4 wheelers parked out in the road. This will put off a lot of prospective buyers thus limiting the sales growth of EVs. There's a reason Activas sell like 2 lakhs every month.

If these are not addressed, EVs won't get mass adoption. Something like 8 year warranty for battery will put #1 con at ease for many.

#2 is much more difficult to solve, let's see what happens.

 

[desiibond]

Since you're well versed with Ather, could you please provide total running costs for 25k, 50k, 75k and 1 lakh km (vehicle cost + running cost + service cost + battery replacement if paying out of pocket)

The break even point for ICE vs EV should include the cost of a replacement battery for the latter else it's essentially scrap once the battery wears out. Can't even sell it off without a proper battery.

450X gen 3 onroad price: 1.64L
Rizta onroad price: 1.24L
Activa on road price: 80k
TVS Ntorq on road price: 90k.

Rizta vs Activa, the difference is just 44k.

As per Ather's official numbers:

• My 450X running cost : 0.22 rupees per kilometer.
• New models running cost : 0.16k rupees per kilometer.

Lets take 1000 kms per month running. Cost is 220 rupees for mine and 160 rupees for new ones. Yearly cost is 2640 or 1920.
Honda Activa has 50km mileage so for 1000 kms, it costs 2000 rupees. Yearly cost is 24000 rupees.

Interesting stat: Cost to run my 450X for 1,00,000 kms is 22000 rupees which is less than what I have to pay for 12000 kilometers of running for an ICE scooter.

Yearly savings over Activa for new model is 22,080. I am not even adding the cost to change oil, quarterly service, wear and tear replacement costs etc.

With this calcuation, breakeven is in 2-3 years (Rizta vs Activa) and in 3-4 years (450x vs Ntorq).

In case of Rizta, Fourth and fifth year, have saved another 22k per year which is 44k savings over Activa after 5 years. I have run another year and now I have saved 66k. At this point, I have decided to change battery. 6 years from now, battery should not cost more than 30k.

After 6 years, I have saved 36k and I have a scooter with brand new battery. So, I get to run for another 6 years. I am not even considering that Activa at this stage would not even give 40kmpl and that petrol cost would be lot more than 100/-.
A change of battery will bring an EV back to nearly full range (if you take into account motor efficiency degradation over time). But for an ICE scooter, there is no such option. Changing engine, gearbox and all will cost a bomb.

You can guess how much I am going to save by the time both scooters reach 10 years of life.

Our 450X has 7085kms on odometer and app says we have saved 16,322/- rupees. Last time when I went to service center, they said that the battery has no degradation. Will have to take it for third service in November. Will let you know what the battery health is, pretty sure that it will be above 90% health.

Is this 0.22 rupee / km exaggerated or real?

Ather app ride log section has a stat called 'Efficiency' that it shows for each ride. It is 'how many kilometers you can travel per unit of electricity (1kWh)'. The last ride had 24km/unit. If I am paying 6 rupees per unit of electricity (on average, could be less), This comes to 0.25 rupee per kilometer.

Correct me if my math is wrong.

Service costs : There is absolutely no comparison. I have paid just 2000/- for two years of service. I believe this is more than what we pay for second service or third service of an ICE scooter. Take it over a period of 10 years where you have various parts to replace or repair due to wear and tear.


Here comes the major differentiator between ICE and EVs. If you have own house of flat, you can actually invest in solar power that can also charge your scooter. With this, you will reach break even quicker and you can also boast that you are using 'natural energy' to charge your EV. My office (Ecoworld) allows us to connect to normal electrical points to charge EV scooter. When I take the scooter to office, I get free charging.

 

[n1r0]

Considering only the petrol vs electric running cost doesn't tell the full story.
Here's some rough numbers:

• For the purchase cost of the Ather 450X, you can buy an Activa AND not worry about fuel for 3 years!
• Without the Battery Warranty Addon (7k), you will be spending most of the EV savings on new battery every 3-5 years.
• Let's say your original battery dies after 6 yrs / 60k km. Since it's out of warranty, you'll have to pay 40k. That reduces EV savings to 12k over 6 yrs or 500 bucks per year. Makes no financial sense at all

That said, if the lower range + longer charge time doesn't matter to a person's actual usage scenario, people should absolutely switch to electric. Petrol price will only go up. Battery price will only come down.

But electric cost is rising too, and most people use street parking where it may not be possible to install a charger.

PS: Servicing cost is not included, if anyone has accurate numbers for both, please let me know


Edit: This random video seems to claim higher prices for the battery

 

[desiibond]

Considering only the petrol vs electric running cost doesn't tell the full story.
Here's some rough numbers:

View attachment 207712

Not able to make head and tail out of this. Very nice of you to conveniently add 40k for battery change at 60k and not add any cost of replacing worn out parts for an ICE or how scooters lose mileage or how peteol price is going up.

I had Honda aviator and it would barely give 35kmpl by end of 3rd year. Service every 3 months is such a pain. Honda says services are free for 2 years whatever but they make sure you pay for something at each service every quarter. This is well known fact. Bikes are so much better in this regard.
Whether you believe are not, ICE scooters are far less reliable than bikes and their mileage sucks from fourth year and part replacement cost is also higher compared to bikes. For an EV, the only change required is for brake pads and the belt if it gets too loose. Belt change too is very rated

If I feel that electricity price is too high, I can get solar power for entire home and use that to power up EV scooter. Can I do that with ICE?

Moreover, those changing battery at 60k is very rare. Like I said, I spoke to few 1st gen owners and they have not changed battery yet.
I am not surprised that so many have this battery anxiety about EVs. We look at these like how we look at phone batteries. A phone battery degrades in 2-3 years because it is in use every minute of the day. That is not the case with an EV. Also, even if battery degrades to 70% and gives 70km range, that is still more than enough for most. Normal battery change IMO is once in 7-8 years probably.

• For the purchase cost of the Ather 450X, you can buy an Activa AND not worry about fuel for 3 years!

Sorry, this does not make any sense. By this logic, I can install solar charger and not worry about cost for entirely of life of EV. I am not going to get into iOS vs Android, PC vs console kind of pointless discussion.

• Without the Battery Warranty Addon (7k), you will be spending most of the EV savings on new battery every 3-5 years.

Factually incorrect and you are assuming that every EV owner is changing battery 3-5 years. Mine is nearing 3 years and there is no way I am going to change battery. I will do one thing. I am not so active on Ather forum. What I will do is that I will drop a post there asking how many changed their battery.

• Let's say your original battery dies after 6 yrs / 60k km. Since it's out of warranty, you'll have to pay 40k. That reduces EV savings to 12k over 6 yrs or 500 bucks per year. Makes no financial sense at all

Lets say ICE motor dies after 6 years. Since it is out of warranty, have to pay how much? I can also 'assume' that it will break.

That said, if the lower range + longer charge time doesn't matter to a person's actual usage scenario, people should absolutely switch to electric. Petrol price will only go up. Battery price will only come down.

But electric cost is rising too, and most people use street parking where it may not be possible to install a charger.

OP wants to buy an EV which means that he has figured out charging already. This is not a thread about EV vs ICE.
For those who cannot charge an EV, there is no point of discussion. ICE is the only option.

Edit: This random video seems to claim higher prices for the battery

Correct. Its a random video. 450X Gen 3 was released in July 2022 which means the battery is uner warranty till July 2025 if person got it on day 1. Get Ather Battery protect, no worry for 5 years atleast. Why would anyone with Gen 3 pay for a battery replacement under warranty? That guy Pradeep is a class A chuth and he spewed so much of venom on Ola when he was not allowed to enter their factory (no permission).

I found this simple and easy to understand article on cost of ownership ICE vs EV : https://www.businessinsider.in/busi...-vs-a-petrol-scooter/articleshow/89119184.cms

Not going to get into a debate with you on ICE vs EV. I gave the cost to own details and service costs with proof, I can even give the battery life details from next service and these are facts. If you want to counter it with your assumptions, it is your choice and I am not going to be wasting my time in starting this vs that war of words. Please do remind me next year when you see ads on Ather community day (happened in April this year). I can try to get a +1 for you so that you can attend the session and speak directly with the founders and with engineers at Ather. It is a full day event that happens in Bangalore. You will find hundreds of Ather owners and their vehicles. Talk to them as well. You will see couple of S340 owners as well. Talk to them about battery costs and how their scooters are. Some of those scooters will be 7-8 years old.

All this is only one part of the story. If you add the other advantages in stability performance agility etc of Ather scooter in comparison to Activa, you will see that EVs like this one is the way to go.

The only real advantage an ICE will continue to have is that you can refill at any bunk and go off. With an EV, charging is a painfully slow process even with hyper chargers.