Audio Audiophile and gears

Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic for the price and I have 2 pairs for years.
But HD598 is available for 70-80EUR and I will get those ( if at the same price) as they scale up much better with good amps.
I've no special attachment to brands and never judge a headphone from the price ( or write anything about things that I've not used extensively)
But there are people who claim SHPs are better than HD600/650, and that's a complete lie.
Philips is pretty highly regarded in audiophile communities. But their latest Fidelio X3 is disappointing.
I suggested OP to avoid Philips only because they are not officially available in India

I am not sure about scaling up but they do sound better than hd598 personally to me. Obviously hd6xx is diff kettle of fish but the fact that they are even compared to them and few even like them better is testament to how good they are also ( although i agree with you re hd6xx debate but like i said in audio lot of subjectivity is there ).

I think it all comes down to the fact they arent available officially in India but for they price they go for in US ( between 50-75$ ) imo they are best bang for buck , second only probably to koss ksc75/portapros/kph30 ( depending on taste ).

But obviously if your budget is higher then your options get better as with everything else and yeah if budget is 20k k712 is something i am a huge fan of.

However Deva is going to disappear from market very soon ( so grab a wired pair if you haven't tried planars yet)
Anyway I am old school audiophile , but dont do this much anymore as have no time nowadays and also both me and my friend pretty much found our fav pairs we liked after trying many a headphones in 2010s ( I still have a grado ps500 for rock and 7506 some critical stuff, and he uses hd6xx and dt770 depending on music hes listening to ) but surprisingly have listened to mostly everything else except planars. Finally a diff friend got sundaras this week, so excited to try em when I meet him !
 
7506!! Man I love it!! Outside studios, very few people use it. A gem of a headphone!!
They are , thing is though they arent any "fun" and definitely not ideal at all for casual listening but for critical listening nothing comes close. Theres a reason they have been industry standard for radio broadcast and studios for 2 decades and loved by sound engineers. It even highlights slightest flaws.

Its one of those pairs you wudnt listen to that often but a must have in your collection imo and are not that expensive and are pretty much indestructable so can last a decade easily or more.
 

blackscorpio

Disciple
so now both are on ears , which is more balanced sounding or neutral ?
Sony 7506 or Sennheiser HD25

I was about to ask, how do they compare against each?
Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic for the price and I have 2 pairs for years.
But HD598 is available for 70-80EUR and I will get those ( if at the same price) as they scale up much better with good amps.
I've no special attachment to brands and never judge a headphone from the price ( or write anything about things that I've not used extensively)
But there are people who claim SHPs are better than HD600/650, and that's a complete lie.
Philips is pretty highly regarded in audiophile communities. But their latest Fidelio X3 is disappointing.
I suggested OP to avoid Philips only because they are not officially available in India and personally I won't spend more than 80EUR on them ( got 2 sets myself for about 80-90 EUR)
Under 20K INR there are only 2/3 options in India.
K712 pro
HD25 ( It's available for 9K in Amazon India!! A superb deal IMHO, bought mine for more than double decade ago from India)
HD560s ( under 20k, it rivals HD600 and is better in certain aspects)
Hifiman HE400i and Deva
However Deva is going to disappear from market very soon ( so grab a wired pair if you haven't tried planars yet)
Deva wired is hard to find already :rolleyes:
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Skilled
so now both are on ears , which is more balanced sounding or neutral ?
Sony 7506 or Sennheiser HD25
7506 more balanced but not detailed at all compared to HD25.
HD25 belongs to a much higher category. 7605 is just the rebranded V6. HD25 is a very unique product. I'm shilling for it, as I sincerely think every audiophile should try this special sound signature. I've not yet heard anything with this amount of energy. If OPPOTY is 7/10 in energy, HD25 is 9.9/10 with bass that literally goes down below 30 Hz and very sharp and aggressive treble but the sound signature is definitely not V shaped, mids ( specially vocals) are not recessed at all.
This is a sound signature no other brand tried to emulate. Every newer manufacturer are playing safe and making smooth sounding/ treble heavy IEMs/ headphones. With Tyll ang joker gone, Jude mostly inactive, the headphone reviews are getting increasingly boring and unreliable.
 
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I ask to myself, should I buy more DEVA, DT880, AT R70x or K712 pro ?
My mom always says same thing to me - you don't listen or enjoy anything you just keep on analyzing and comparing things. Stop this stupid buying selling business and wasting money.
I agree with her upto much extent and stopped buying audio gears as a hobby and spend more time listening music.
Earlier as a kid it was always Sony and bass, extra bass then its AT and treble more sharpness and brightness. The liberian nature of mine always trying to find the balance.
Audition is the only way, no guarantee even after spending thousands or more the new device may sound poor than your daily driver.
At the moment not spending on more audio gears just happy with my old AT700x though It took 3-4 months to calibrate it as per my liking.
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Skilled
Very good decision. But if you can get Deva under 10-11k and K712 pro around 18K INR, get either or both. You won't regret it. Since you already have AT700X, don't go for the R70X.
If you like 700X, you will love the airy sound of K712 ( it has the strangest soundstage without sounding reverb heavy, but be prepared for some shock, like someone knocking your door, while it's in the movie you're watching)
 
Deva under 10-11k and K712 pro around 18K INR, get either or both.
which 1 if I buy one only ?
Since you already have AT700X, don't go for the R70X.
Are they similar ? but 700x is closed back and r70x is open.
If you like 700X, you will love the airy sound of K712 ( it has the strangest soundstage without sounding reverb heavy, but be prepared for some shock, like someone knocking your door, while it's in the movie you're watching)
this is what I wanna experience the open sound like knocking the door, thanks you've cleared the doubt, buy some says this 712 earpads vibrates with deep bass ?
if this thing vibrates near ear I'm gonna avoid it.
 
so now both are on ears , which is more balanced sounding or neutral ?
Sony 7506 or Sennheiser HD25

Re 7506 vs Hd25 is been a debate for the longest time on most production forums , you cant go wrong with either imo. I havent tried hd25s though but with all due respect I am pretty sure they dont belong to a higher category or have a special sound signature or as such. In fact half the studio recordings or artists you open on youtube be it ellie on ryan seacrest , or andrea beccoli with ed sheeran or whatever its sonys. Sonys do lack bass though.

But then this is why I dont recommend headphones here or on indian forums much because a) its all very subjective , not just the sound signature and sq ( just like we have different taste buds ) , but also comfort and how it clamps against your head and then on top of that b) In india people dont have that much expandable income compared to US etc so most people spending this much hard earned money on a can will expect it to love it and keep for years and to compund it all further c) We dont have any return policy here for cans unlike US.

So overall its very hard to recommend imo a headphone you might love , someone else might not and on top of that its super hard to audition them anywhere and theres no way you can return if you dislike them.

I wud say see a few comparisons maybe get whichever one you like of the two , but I do think both are analytical so they should be for most part be your secondary headphones primary being open and fun. Both are better than 99 percent cans you would try for details they expose and cant go wrong with either .

I ask to myself, should I buy more DEVA, DT880, AT R70x or K712 pro ?
My mom always says same thing to me - you don't listen or enjoy anything you just keep on analyzing and comparing things. Stop this stupid buying selling business and wasting money.
I agree with her upto much extent and stopped buying audio gears as a hobby and spend more time listening music.
Earlier as a kid it was always Sony and bass, extra bass then its AT and treble more sharpness and brightness. The liberian nature of mine always trying to find the balance.
Audition is the only way, no guarantee even after spending thousands or more the new device may sound poor than your daily driver.
At the moment not spending on more audio gears just happy with my old AT700x though It took 3-4 months to calibrate it as per my liking.

I totally agree with this , I mean people enjoy music in their boat headphones and airpods and gear you have is already superior to most , dont hurry enjoy music first and foremost as there is no end to this itch , see if you can audition in anyway or research more and dont make hurried decision esp if you are happy for now.

Anyway I hope audiophile community grows here as well in time here so it becomes easier to audition and try gear and such . I do see a slight boom compared to last few years
 
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red dragon

Justiceforall
Skilled
There's no debate between HD25 and 7506 in studios for music production.
HD25 is definitely a very unique headphone in every sense ( please try it once, if you're familiar with studios, you will definitely find one in any decent studio)
7506 is used for tracking in studios which can't afford NDH20/ HD280/ AKG 240.
I've used them both (and V6 before that) for 15 years and the difference is HUUUUUGE.
7506 is definitely good, but HD280 is the main competition. Not HD25. Have you seen any DJ/ videographer using 7506 ever?
I'm in this game for decades mate...15 years in India, 6 in Europe...do a little bit about studios.
Here's Tyll himself talking about it.
And Jude.
HD25 is comparable to T51....hope now you understand the difference.
K240 is one of the most popular headphones in studio. It's one of the shittiest sounding headphones, but relatively balanced, and very cheap. Cost cutting is the most important thing in most studios.
The few remaining big studios never really use 7506/K240 etc.
HD280/300 is the standard for the tracking guy. Anyway, no point talking about studio setups here. Most don't understand the difference between the requirements of a performing musician and the tracking guy!!
The artists using 7506 simply because they don't care. But you will never see a drummer using 7506, you have to be in a studio and familiarise yourself about the recording process to understand.
I can suggest a relatively simple process to assess the accuracy of your headphones.
Play the song Letter by Horikawa and try to follow the frictional sound between paper and the pen. Only a very few headphones can make it sound real ( HD600 can't, DT770 can't, Focal Clear can brilliantly, so can most hifiman and ofcourse HD25 can despite having such a small soundstage...I'm shilling it for a reason..try it once, I have headphones 15-20 times more expensive, but those have a special place)
 
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rdst_1

Skilled
Guys, only try the HD25 if you are after a detailed neutral sound. I couldn't get to like them because of their congested soundstage, bright nature in general (my preferred sound signature is mellow and dark, even for Rock songs) and of course, they pained my ears if I would wear them for too long (more than an hour), but that could be exaggerated due to my different ears as well.
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Skilled
Those are definitely not neutral mate. Didn't you notice the super hard hitting bass? Do you know of any neutral can with that kind of bass?
Yes, impossible to wear for more than an hour at a stretch.
But some Beyer ( T51) are even brighter!!
 

fLUX

Skilled
I ask to myself, should I buy more DEVA, DT880, AT R70x or K712 pro ?
My mom always says same thing to me - you don't listen or enjoy anything you just keep on analyzing and comparing things. Stop this stupid buying selling business and wasting money.
I agree with her upto much extent and stopped buying audio gears as a hobby and spend more time listening music.
Earlier as a kid it was always Sony and bass, extra bass then its AT and treble more sharpness and brightness. The liberian nature of mine always trying to find the balance.
Audition is the only way, no guarantee even after spending thousands or more the new device may sound poor than your daily driver.
At the moment not spending on more audio gears just happy with my old AT700x though It took 3-4 months to calibrate it as per my liking.

From this lot the AT R70X are drawing attention these days as its drive more easily in comparison to the K712 and HD600 , supposed to have similar mids as the HD600 with slightly grainy treble and equally detailed. Also they do not have as much synergy issues as the HD600 (need for very good tube amps).
 
There's no debate between HD25 and 7506 in studios for music production.
HD25 is definitely a very unique headphone in every sense ( please try it once, if you're familiar with studios, you will definitely find one in any decent studio)
7506 is used for tracking in studios which can't afford NDH20/ HD280/ AKG 240.
I've used them both (and V6 before that) for 15 years and the difference is HUUUUUGE.
7506 is definitely good, but HD280 is the main competition. Not HD25. Have you seen any DJ/ videographer using 7506 ever?
I'm in this game for decades mate...15 years in India, 6 in Europe...do a little bit about studios.
Here's Tyll himself talking about it.
And Jude.

Hey man its okay if you love them more and thats fine honestly , but you being in this game for 1 day or 10000 decades doesnt mean much to me or anyone. I am not here to debate whats better anyway esp when i havent tried hd25 myself. Deabting over internet is what I prefer not to do , but would for sure like to try hd25s if i can.

Re the Dj part : The hd25s are obviously superior dj cans as they clamp harder are more portable and provide more bass. The Sony's are more studio headphones and don't have the same isolation and output that you will need for venues with monitors but they are very good balance for everything.



Guys, only try the HD25 if you are after a detailed neutral sound. I couldn't get to like them because of their congested soundstage, bright natur ase in general (my preferred sound signature is mellow and dark, even for Rock songs) and of course, they pained my ears if I would wear them for too long (more than an hour), but that could be exaggerated due to my different ears as well.

Exactly my point , the sonys dont clamp that hard at all and are comfortable for long listening hours but flip side is isolation is slightly less. Thats why i said in prev post i dont rcommend cans as much as comfort is very diff for everyone too , let alone preferred sound sig , preferred genres and use case.

Thats why I said , I dont want anyone to waste money just on someones or my suggestion atleast here where you cant return a product and try to audition or be double sure before buying cans.

Also I agree with rdst_1 review its lin line with what I hear , thats why I also said both these cans should be for secondary purpose ( as they are on bright side ) and imo the you wear for small period for monitoring or closely listening to something , not your day to day / daily cans.
 

rdst_1

Skilled
Also they do not have as much synergy issues as the HD600 (need for very good tube amps).

On that point, can you suggest some good VFM tube amps for HD650s. I think my query got mixed up in the post I made above, so will reiterate.
Currently using my 650s with E1DA 9038s. Would like to buy a desktop amp in the future with the aim to get similar detail retrieval as the E1DA but at lower volumes. HD650 are known to sound good with OTL Amps Like the Bottlehead Crack (is it still worth buying one in 2021). But can one buy a different which will work with other HPs as well or is it better to just stick with OTL for the 650.
 
From this lot the AT R70X are drawing attention these days as its drive more easily in comparison to the K712 and HD600 , supposed to have similar mids as the HD600 with slightly grainy treble and equally detailed. Also they do not have as much synergy issues as the HD600 (need for very good tube amps).
I am also inclining towards R70x , but as red dragon said it's similar to my A700x , so considering 712 pro too.
can anyone confirm the bass on 712 pro, I'd read it vibrates your head near ears, is it so ?
I can suggest a relatively simple process to assess the accuracy of your headphones.
Play the song Letter by Horikawa and try to follow the frictional sound between paper and the pen. Only a very few headphones can make it sound real ( HD600 can't, DT770 can't, Focal Clear can brilliantly, so can most hifiman and ofcourse HD25 can despite having such a small soundstage...I'm shilling it for a reason..try it once, I have headphones 15-20 times more expensive, but those have a special place)
Just finished letter by horikawa,
Good track listened twice or thrice. Nice positional sound track, can easily distinguish between those paper and pen sounds moving from left to right.
So now I can conclude I've an excellent pair of headphones, which I knew it earlier too ;).
 

fLUX

Skilled
On that point, can you suggest some good VFM tube amps for HD650s. I think my query got mixed up in the post I made above, so will reiterate.
Currently using my 650s with E1DA 9038s. Would like to buy a desktop amp in the future with the aim to get similar detail retrieval as the E1DA but at lower volumes. HD650 are known to sound good with OTL Amps Like the Bottlehead Crack (is it still worth buying one in 2021). But can one buy a different which will work with other HPs as well or is it better to just stick with OTL for the 650.
VFM tube amp would be a Feliks Echo , a budget amp would be Anode Acoustic OTL. The Echo was compared to AA amps (both OTL & SET) by a fellow audiophile and he preferred the Echo, but I know many people who love the AA amps too.

Feliks Echo will work and drive majority of the dynamic drivers out there , will not go well with planars. Even a Feliks Elise although compatible with planars doesn't sound the best (mellows down the aggressiveness of planars) , but makes the HD600 and ZMF sound heavenly. Even AKG Q701 sounded amazing with tubes.
I am also inclining towards R70x , but as red dragon said it's similar to my A700x , so considering 712 pro too.
can anyone confirm the bass on 712 pro, I'd read it vibrates your head near ears, is it so ?

Just finished letter by horikawa,
Good track listened twice or thrice. Nice positional sound track, can easily distinguish between those paper and pen sounds moving from left to right.
So now I can conclude I've an excellent pair of headphones, which I knew it earlier too ;).

I had the AD700 and they were nice , but I doubt based on description of R70X are anywhere similar. Not heard one , so cant say for sure but user opinion state they are very similar to the HD650 and are a good alternative. I started my audiophile journey with an AD700 , still one of my favorite headphones and intend to get one if I find the purple hue original one.
 
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