Congress seems to have a big lead!!
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Yamaraj
Adept
blr_p said:
Why, do you have anything against that? Well, except for the kind of presidents we get here, that is.
blr_p said:
Well, it's more because of his father Biju Patnaik's legacy. He is a decent man indeed, but his political heritage helped him a lot.
blr_p said:
Yes, make the winners accountable. And that can only happen when the voters are aware of the constitution, their rights and responsibilities and what's in favor of their nation or what's not. Democracy is about active participation, not passive voting every five years.
What's your opinion on Rahulji being projected at our savior without any experience of the system and its issues? I have absolutely zero problems with that if he turns out to be honest, sensible and a practical leader. But some factions of media have been hailing the bro-sis duo since their teenage years. Isn't this precisely the kind of fanboyism a democracy should detest by all means?
blr_p
Skilled
Yamaraj said:
You have not said whether this is what you meant as yet
Before this election not much , as i find his sister sharper.Yamaraj said:
But now all i hear is how he turned UP around and has earned his stars & stripes. Is this true or not ?
We will learn more as time goes on and better explanations are given about this election. But it feels like a historic one. Something seems to have changed with the electorate. Is TV behind this ?
They see all these images and would like to have the same, thier expectations having proportionately increased. Its certainly true of the middle classes so dont see why it cannot apply across the board as well.
Or the fact that Rs.70,000 crores can buy an awful lot of votes. We will be all paying for that at some point.
Yamaraj said:
Sure.
But there is the counter argument, that ppl born into the profession might be better 'equpped' than others. Just look at his cousin batting for the opposition, whose father was seen as the sharper one but was lost prematurely
It appears the electorate does not give a wit about that, all they want is good governance & development. Every election is a gamble & hope for just that.
saumilsingh
Skilled
Politics on TE boils down to Those who know squat vs Those who know some (the far worse kind) and is better if locked on sight.
Wow...quite a big thread and lot's of dissection and views offered on why the Congress fared so well.
My take would be a combination of tangible progress in states where progress did matter. I mean, after all, the economy has grown since the past 5 years and funds have trickled down to the masses of people who actually vote and make a difference. And It would also have to be disappointment with the regional candidates that prompted change where that mattered. Of course, a few states went the casteist way (Karnataka for eg: what a shocker) and progress really did not matter here..or maybe the Congress really does not have any good candidates in Karnataka to field.
Looks like a large section of people have awakened to their more immediate needs instead of being inspired by religious zealots. Clearly the business community has no faith in the NDA(look at the recent rally in the markets even when the fundamentals are not right). Looks like a lot of people have lost faith in them too. Advani's dreams of becoming a PM are over.
Personally, I'm happy. That is not to say I'm confident about great change but at least, I won't have to listen to a pseudo modern govt pretending to focus on issues and distracting us every chance they get by drumming up religious sentiment when the country is going to dogs.
My take would be a combination of tangible progress in states where progress did matter. I mean, after all, the economy has grown since the past 5 years and funds have trickled down to the masses of people who actually vote and make a difference. And It would also have to be disappointment with the regional candidates that prompted change where that mattered. Of course, a few states went the casteist way (Karnataka for eg: what a shocker) and progress really did not matter here..or maybe the Congress really does not have any good candidates in Karnataka to field.
Looks like a large section of people have awakened to their more immediate needs instead of being inspired by religious zealots. Clearly the business community has no faith in the NDA(look at the recent rally in the markets even when the fundamentals are not right). Looks like a lot of people have lost faith in them too. Advani's dreams of becoming a PM are over.
Personally, I'm happy. That is not to say I'm confident about great change but at least, I won't have to listen to a pseudo modern govt pretending to focus on issues and distracting us every chance they get by drumming up religious sentiment when the country is going to dogs.
Yamaraj
Adept
Anything that focuses on less governance and more productivity. If a presidential system cuts down on unnecessary political burden, why not?blr_p said:You have not said whether this is what you meant as yet
If university elections are of any indication, we're headed towards a future where glamor plays a large and important role in politics. Rahul looks innocent and radiates a charm that lures people far more effectively than older and more experienced politicians. Even more so in this day and age when we have more youth voting in election than mature people. The same goes for his sister.blr_p said:
As for the results in UP, I think it has more to do with Mulayam's and Maya's politics than Rahul's charms, however. People wanted change and he seems to have delivered it, thanks to the powerful and manipulative backing from mass media and Congress clerks.
Media certainly plays an important role in democratic systems. Politicians are definitely aware of this and they're making the most of it.
You lost me here. :Sblr_p said:
Please do elaborate.
Would this still have been the same if his father was alive? I'm sure he would have held the baton that Rahul and Priyanka seem to enjoy now. C'est la vie!blr_p said:Sure.
But there is the counter argument, that ppl born into the profession might be better 'equpped' than others. Just look at his cousin batting for the opposition, whose father was seen as the sharper one but was lost prematurely
It appears the electorate does not give a wit about that, all they want is good governance & development. Every election is a gamble & hope for just that.
We have witnessed that political genes aren't very effective ...time and again. The worthy exceptions include Omar Abdullah et al. I would rather have him with a better profile than other inexperienced sons and daughters born with a silver spoon. He has the kind of experience it takes for politics.
Yamaraj
Adept
I wholeheartedly agree with this part.sydras said:
No idea how many more government changes will take it to curb the Kashmir and NE problems, to rid the military and DRDO/HAL of excessive red tape and bad equipments and to stop blowing the hot pipe of a fictional superpower image when we cannot even take care of our own backyard.
blr_p
Skilled
Yamaraj said:Anything that focuses on less governance and more productivity. If a presidential system cuts down on unnecessary political burden, why not?
Given your previous answers i don' think a presidential system would be lighter in terms of personnel. What you are asking for is natural in a private enterprise but unfortunately not in a govt. setting.
I don't think we have evolved to the point where we want less govt. It will happen if govt. continues to get larger to the point that it becomes a viable election issue.
Yamaraj said:
Ppl seem obsessed with identities be it bollywood or sports. This would be an extension of the same. Maybe its the media's doing.
Tho on the charm thing, vajpayee & patnaik have done just as well. Youth did not play a factor there.
Farmer loans that were forgiven.Yamaraj said:
Yamaraj said:
Ahh, but if you go down that route you must also consider what-if Sanjay was also alive
Yamaraj said:
We will see, it appears if one is born into the Gandhi family, whether one likes it or not their destiny has been chosen.
That is until a viable opposition party is able to make a difference. One hopes the lessons from this setback will be taken in and suitable changes made that build & incooperate all the diversity this country has to offer.
sydras said:
Or..they wanted the status quo to continue, fed up of previous non-performing govts.
Yamaraj
Adept
While I do want the excessive political baggage to shed some of its unnecessary weight, I'm also not an anarchist in the realistic sense of the meaning. It's obvious that we do need some governance. But the BMI of ours is way off the mark. We could do without the presidential drama along with all the governors here -- who obviously, again, seem little more than beneficiaries of their lords in federal government.blr_p said:
The money and time saved could find a lot of use in productive development of our people and the nation.
Well, it's true. Vajpayee, however, banked upon his positive, honest and strong image in the populace unlike Advani. And he turned out to be good as well. Not the best, but still.blr_p said:
Ah, thanks!blr_p said:
I can see how this would have played a certain role in elections. But how practical and honest are such practices?
I was talking about Sanjay, not Rajiv. Apart from his somewhat fundamentalist ideas about curbing the nation of its excessive population, he looked quite a promising leader. And not to forget that he played a pivotal role behind the conception of Maruti.blr_p said:Ahh, but if you go down that route you must also consider what-if Sanjay was also alive
Except for Varun. :lol:blr_p said:
I agree. But what kind of an ideology do we expect from a new opposition, not taking into account the idiots, scammers and criminals we have already? One that downplays regional politics and asserts more on nationalism, does not recognize caste and religion at all and projects the right image on people both in and out of this nation that is free from bias and full of optimism and a sense of self-esteem (lacking severely in our people, unfortunately)?
If we want a decent alternative, the youth will have to come forward. Youth -- capable of making concrete decisions and not afraid of facing stream upwards when time calls for it. For that, we need to stop looking up to humanoid gods for wisdom and do some introspection.
HailStonE
Skilled
Yamaraj said:
Don't cry over my math scores.... Cry for the next 5 years that your beloved BJP/ NDA did not made it even though they had the golden chance allegedly & yet they were shown the back door by the people....
Its not my personal belief/idea to spread hatred & garner vote.... If you are so proud of NDA then my question is SAME why they were shunned in 2004 & why they were again not given to run this country this time around...
People must have made a mistake in 2004 but why same mistake again by not choosing NDA/BJP... The question remains why people did not helped a man become PM who was responsible for the biggest divide in the history of India after partition....
You can argue as much as you like but the facts will not change... Congress is a party of crooks but BJP is not the party of angels... with enough in fighting & political ambitions like their counterpart to hardly make it a party with a difference.... There are more mass murderers in BJP then in Congress...
Ah.... and the single achievement as you asked of Manmohan Singh for me is the Nuclear Deal among many others Where he showed exceptional courage & strength to make sure its done.... Ironically the deal blueprint was created by NDA but they refused to back it when they came to opposition...
I know you will never change your opinion & love the party which is the out come of hate & RSS's political ambitions to make India a certain Hundu Rashtra.. But clearly majority of voters don't find this ideology entertaining enough nowadays... You & BJP should understand this but you will always be in a mode of denial....
I don't think I should post anymore on this thread since its like banging my head on stone of disbelief.... :bleh:
blr_p
Skilled
I think any got. would have done the same as the cost of not doing so was more.Yamaraj said:
Yamaraj said:
He turned out to be very expensive for what he achieved, but then Gandhi's dont come cheap
Yamaraj said:
Thats the big question
This election i don't think has answered whether a national idenity is required rather i feel its a rejection to the way that identity was framed.
The question of national identity was meaningless until the Brits arrived. We managed for over a thousand years prior as distinct kingdoms which waxed & waned.
One point about the US and flag waving. It all started during the vietnam war. All the singing of the anthems etc at every sports meet. Its not something they had practiced much upto that point. They kept it after since they seem to get into all sorts of adventures on a regular basis. And that further explains the more developed foreign policy. They are a huge trader with the world as well.
Another point i wanted to counter that you mentioned earlier about the ppl being wrong.
If you take statistical sampling, and have any faith in its veracity. Then the bigger the sample the more accurate the score. This sample was in the 100s of millions. The ppl chose from a list what they thought would get them ahead. Sure a few would be flukes but the overall numbers do indicate a general trend.
From that perspective i posit that the ppl are right every single time
Haven't been following the politics threads too much, so apologies if this was already posted: India's massive general election - The Big Picture - Boston.com
spindoctor
Skilled
vishalrao said:
that's a pretty impressive set of pictures. thanks for sharing
The thread made for a good read.
@yamaraj
So, you're not in favour of the present 'system' ?. It'd be a shame if after all those posts you end up saying the current democratic setup (not democracy itself) is the cause of all problems this country faces.
And I'm really curious to know what you think will make our government more productive.
@yamaraj
So, you're not in favour of the present 'system' ?. It'd be a shame if after all those posts you end up saying the current democratic setup (not democracy itself) is the cause of all problems this country faces.
And I'm really curious to know what you think will make our government more productive.