Congress seems to have a big lead!!

Yamaraj said:
Do you have an evidence or a judgment declaring him the perpetrator of the crime? Care to share it with the rest of us?

Modi is not god. He cannot make people kill each other until and unless they really want to. Stop blaming one person for all your hatred, anger and evil deeds and accept the truth that humans are not exactly angels.

On a different note: I could blame deaths of a million people and the plight of Kashmiri pandits from the region on Nehru and his uber-idiotic policies. The same could be said for 1962 Sino-Indian conflict when a lot many brave soldiers lost their lives because of one delusional idiot PM that Jokerlal Nehru was.

Beside, Godhra was not the first riot of its kind in this country. But this was the first time the whole mess was blamed onto the sitting CM of state. Wonder why? Is Rajiv Gandhi is to be blamed for 1984 riots? Maharastra and UP CMs were not blamed for 1992 Bombay riots and 2006 Aligarh riots respectively.
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you have no idea what you're talking about. i suppose by your logic, hitler wasn't criminal either because how can he make people kill right? how can the holocaust be blamed on him when he didn't personally execute every single jew that was killed?

were you in gujarat when it happened? did you lose family during those riots? do you know anyone who was killed or who lost their family members? have you ever spoken to a victim of the riots? do you remember the media blackout which happened while it was going on? do you know that the police was standing guard by order while the mobs were massacring innocent people? do you know that these mobs had accurate lists of the population and their workplaces when they went around (that could only have been sourced from the government)? have you ever seen a row of shops with the muslim ones burned to the ground and the hindu ones still standing?

seriously... what the f*ck do you think know about the gujarat riots? is there any single part of that knowledge not based on what the media told you?

your right wing fundamentalist party just got b**chslapped by the largest democracy on the planet. suck it up.
 
blr_p said:
on that note lay off the wounded then, yeah :)

No point beating em up when they are down, where is the class in that.
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you're right. i don't even support one side or the other. it's just a pet peeve of mine when people promote modi having forgotten what he did 7 years ago. and it's even worse when jokers who have no clue about what actually happened in this state start talking shit. rightfully, he should have been convicted of crimes against humanity at the hague but instead, he's a potential prime minister of the future. what a weird country we live in.
 
yamaraj said:
There's no need to offend others. If you cannot hold an argument in a civilized manner -- without resorting to attack and flame others, please keep out.
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Do you know why?

yamaraj said:
The endless process of elections in this country far outweighs any tangible benefits it brings forth.
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Coz this clearly shows that either there is no point having a civil discussion on this :p

or you have a lot of growing up to do..

seriously, how old are you?

coz I have seen mid-high school kids say similar stuff in their angst ridden teen years smug in their half baked (and misplaced) sense of superiority over the general populace
 
I 'think' he's making the argument for more stability over no confidence votes, but not sure if this is exactly it.

As he's mentioned the same in the past but never really gone into any depth.
 
as i said before...5 more years to repent..Hope this clueless bunch learn something at least from a tiny neighbor called Sri Lanka....but then as always..."All options are open"...
 
blr_p said:
Can you clearly, expand on this ?
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More governance, less development.

I needn't explain the cons of the political scenario of this nation. Elected billionaires keep working hard during their tenure not to make their beloved country a better place, but for their bank balance and a secured political career.

Democratic visionaries like Benjamin Franklyn warned against career politicians, long ago. My point is that India needs strong leaders and true visionaries and intellectuals more than a low-quality democratic structure and a bunch of inherently corrupt politicians commandeering the ship into oblivion. India needs young minds with critical thinking and the ability to think out of the box, not institutionalized and iPod-happy yuppies hooked to their tellies and relying on media houses for their knowledge and food for thought.

A real secular government, IMO, would be the one that doesn't recognize religions and castes at all. All to be treated fair and equal.

spindoctor said:
you have no idea what you're talking about. i suppose by your logic, hitler wasn't criminal either because how can he make people kill right? how can the holocaust be blamed on him when he didn't personally execute every single jew that was killed?
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First things first. Get over my avatar and signature. A couple of months back I was using Heath Ledger's "The Joker" in place of Karl Ruprecht Kroenen (Hellboy) now. Guess you lot would have accused me of supporting and sympathizing with a psychopathic mass murderer. All the same.

Comparing Modi with Hitler is like comparing apples and oranges. Hitler signed documents and ordered killing of jews, Modi did not. But it's the same for you.

1992 Bombay riots saw no less inhuman killings on both sides. But the then Congress CM of Maharashtra, also accused of stating "Bombay will burn" was only indicted on count of ignorance by the Commission. What makes Modi such a monster after all, if not for his allegiance with BJP and Sangh Parivar -- much hated by the pseudo-secularists and delusional mass-media alike?

spindoctor said:
were you in gujarat when it happened? did you lose family during those riots? do you know anyone who was killed or who lost their family members? have you ever spoken to a victim of the riots? do you remember the media blackout which happened while it was going on? do you know that the police was standing guard by order while the mobs were massacring innocent people? do you know that these mobs had accurate lists of the population and their workplaces when they went around (that could only have been sourced from the government)? have you ever seen a row of shops with the muslim ones burned to the ground and the hindu ones still standing?

seriously... what the f*ck do you think know about the gujarat riots? is there any single part of that knowledge not based on what the media told you?

your right wing fundamentalist party just got b**chslapped by the largest democracy on the planet. suck it up.
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How many did you lose in that train burned by Islamist fundamentalists? Guess you would have just sucked it up as well if your parents were torched alive in locked coaches? Seriously, secularism kicks in only when it's a moslem suffering in this nation. Congress and their hardliner supporters zip their bickering when Hindus are hacked to bits and torched alive by their precious minority, always trying to play the victim card and seeking appeasement from their overlords.

Gujarat delivered its mandate not once but thrice in favor of Modi. There goes your "WTF do you know" bullshit down the drain. On the contrary, all that you know comes from the same pseudo-secularist bandwagon of media that hails Sonia for saving this country with her grace.

Just to make things clear: BJP is not my party. I dislike their religious agendas just as much as I hate the Nehru-Gandhi clan and their pseudo-secularism and other pillars of dirty vote-bank politics like reservation. I'm of the opinion that India needs something better than what we have for options today. Manmohan may well go down the annals of history as one of most appreciated PMs of all time, but this alone does not change the fact that he still is a "Yes, madame!" statesman, not a political leader per se.
 
Yamaraj said:
More governance, less development.

I needn't explain the cons of the political scenario of this nation. Elected billionaires keep working hard during their tenure not to make their beloved country a better place, but for their bank balance and a secured political career.

Democratic visionaries like Benjamin Franklyn warned against career politicians, long ago. My point is that India needs strong leaders and true visionaries and intellectuals more than a low-quality democratic structure and a bunch of inherently corrupt politicians commandeering the ship into oblivion. India needs young minds with critical thinking and the ability to think out of the box, not institutionalized and iPod-happy yuppies hooked to their tellies and relying on media houses for their knowledge and food for thought.

A real secular government, IMO, would be the one that doesn't recognize religions and castes at all. All to be treated fair and equal.
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Very good, but what does this have to do with too many elections ?
 
superczar said:
Coz this clearly shows that either there is no point having a civil discussion on this :p
or you have a lot of growing up to do..
seriously, how old are you?
coz I have seen mid-high school kids say similar stuff in their angst ridden teen years smug in their half baked (and misplaced) sense of superiority over the general populace
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Or maybe grown-ups like you are too quick at judging people while miserably failing at comprehending their statements because of your obstructed and narrow viewpoints.

Or maybe you're too old a conformist who dares not go against the stream if need be. Too old to disregard the circle of safety drawn around.
 
Or maybe grown-ups like you are too quick at judging people while miserably failing at comprehending their statements because of your obstructed and narrow viewpoints.

Or maybe you're too old a conformist who dares not go against the stream if need be. Too old to disregard the circle of safety drawn around.
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I think we are going way OT here, so all I'll say is this, been there-done that :p
 
superczar said:
I think we are going way OT here, so all I'll say is this, been there-done that :p
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I have nothing personal against you or your ideology. Heck, we don't even know each other. And this precisely explains the problem at hand: lack of communication. You read a few of my posts made in defense of my own while others are just to happy partying for the winning horse, and jumped to a conclusion that my views are either too immature or idiotically childish.

Do not forget that democracy is about choices, even the ones we don't have at hand right now. But if we outsource our own though processes to politicians, which is sadly the case here, you can say goodbye to your freedom already. A few select parties have hijacked the system for their own benefits. Good luck to anyone trying to come up with better ideas 'cause our citizens would rather watch cricket than engage in discussions concerned with their real life.

No wonder British laughed at American mercenaries sacrificing their all for a better future.
 
ok so too many elections is bad for development ?

We have a slightly longer cycle than the americans. Are you suggesting we extend this cycle ?

..what ?

change to another system if so which ?
 
blr_p said:
Very good, but what does this have to do with too many elections ?
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Needless burden on national economy and the process of development. Still wondering what happened to pre-NDA govt plans when NDA came in power, or their policies when UPA assumed it? The dirty war between different political factions have already cost us quite a bit. US is better at handling things because their stance on foreign policies and national interests are not driven by individualist agenda, but by nationalism.

Too much regional politics results in communal indifference and local power brokers. While some may argue in favor of the decentralization of power, what we are witnessing in India is a deep political and cultural divide based on religion, caste, languages and regionalism. This keeps giving birth to unnecessary states based on the aforementioned factors. The result: mutual hatred and factions like MNS. Not to mention the severe bloat of our plagiarized constitutional heavyweight. US is doing great with only governors in states and UK is fine without them. But somehow, we need both and still fall short of efficient governance.

And if you think political parties haven't hijacked the system, try running for an election and see if people vote you into parliament for all the goodness that is in you. See if you can negate their mindset which is focused more on which caste the candidate belongs to or whether he/she will distribute TV sets or free rice bags for everyone.

Where are the more important issues in all this mess? Where are the intellectuals holding productive discussions and debates to educate the illiterate voters on what needs their immediate attention?

Elections alone don't matter much. It's the thoughts and ideas behind the change that do.
 
The Jokerlal nehru and Indira gandhi u accuse so much are already dead....

They dont have any hand in the present polls FYKI...

And why do you conviniently forget Rajiv Gandhi and Manmohan Singh....

forget Rajiv Gandhi....

Manmohan Singh has single handedly given India a new direction via the 1990 reforms....

Why dont you see his presence...

And the Modi u so vigorously compared to nehru in causing deaths is still very much in the political scenario....

He still stands accused of Silently assenting to the Gujrat massacres where over hundreds very killed....... which u so conveniently compared to the Train Burning...

I know i sound like a congress supporter..

But i am actually a Supporter of Modi.

But please try to see the good things in each side....

Personally for me i would have liked to have someone like Modi with more backbone to lead the country... than the more scientific and pacifist that Manmohan is....

and I also have my hopes on Rahul Gandhi.... If he turns out to be a visionary like Rajiv.. i would really like that..

And your talk about the qualification...
No politician has much knowledge on how all trade and Bureaucratic decisions work. No one neither Rahul or Sonia or Vajpayee or anyone really have any Big say in the decision making process other than to speak about it and provide an interface with other departments..(If Laloo had any major influence in railway decision making then railways would have floundered to the worst state)

Dude the Bureaucratic decision making is a democratic process too... the secretaries and other officials are the ones who do the work....

But as poster boys projecting the Image of new India i would like to have a Modi.. But it turned out not so ... So I place my hopes on Rahul now...
But in anycase not ADVANI... His finicky stand and really bad track record is a no no...

But i am not disappointed with the result because the biggest scourge that Indian politics faced (3rd and 4th groups) are biting the dust.. and the communist got their share of whooping.....
 
Yamaraj said:
US is better at handling things because their stance on foreign policies and national interests are not driven by individualist agenda, but by nationalism.
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At the risk of putting words in your mouth but are you suggesting a presidential system ?

Yamaraj said:
And if you think political parties haven't hijacked the system, try running for an election and see if people vote you into parliament for all the goodness that is in you. See if you can negate their mindset which is focused more on which caste the candidate belongs to or whether he/she will distribute TV sets or free rice bags for everyone.
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The only recent exception that comes to mind is Naveen Patnaik. The guy cant even speak Oriya, but is CM now due to dynasty & his promise to be honest :O
Yamaraj said:
Elections alone don't matter much. It's the thoughts and ideas behind the change that do.
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Ahh i think i understand now what you mean.

Not get too carried away with the result but hold the winners accountable.

Do you think our system is unable to do just that ?

There were certainly thoughts & ideas that brought about this election result. the media is trying to push a lot of them but i'm waiting to see how accurate they are.
 
Yamaraj said:
US is better at handling things because their stance on foreign policies and national interests are not driven by individualist agenda, but by nationalism.
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Dude have any one of you seen ZEITGEIST and its ADDENDUM...

USA is never been driven by NATIONALISM....
never ever....

It is being run by the Huge Companies and Corporations over there....

Right from sponsoring the Candidates campaign, their influence grows to what all american government does...

The whole war on Iraq was a farce to allow for Halliburton and Lockheed martin (few major sponsors of george w bush).... to capitalise....
...

so balls to American system..... its all a big farce...

I doubt you will ever give India to Hinduja group....will you???
 
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