Converting 110v to 220v, could it affect sound quality?
- Thread starter observer
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superczar
Juggernaut
Sangram,
Assuming he were to use a good transformer based converter (which thankfully are still not too expensive in India ) andnot a switching mode, or sinewave clipper converter, I really don't think there would be any appreciable/noticeable degradation
Any good quality Audio device will have a power supply section well equipped to filter RF/EMI intereference in the incoming power as well as filter spikes so as long
Your apartment/neighborhood power supply isn't perfectly clean anyway (which BTW is anyway coming from a big stepdowner in your apt/neighborhood), and your little stepdowner isn't going to add much to this mess
what they won't be able to handle though is a non sine-wave power source (read SMPS/clippers)
Well not really, but that's only IME. It doesn't make a difference to some, and it does to some, I'll just leave it at that. I'm just a little fatigued with answering questions from my personal point of view, so I guess I won't any more.
A transformer based converter does impact the input voltage less severely than a switch mode converter. But, an oversized conversion transformer with shielded windings and overrated wire costs in excess of 8000 (INR). This is a custom design I wanted for myself, but I needed an isolation transformer with amorphous core.
I still don't consider downconverting acceptable. I've heard the results and had switched out my HK transformers to custom-wound units for 230V. The sound actually improved dramatically. Then again the HK was a high power unit (capable of pulling 1000 watts through the mains cord).
The OP asked: Could it? And I said yes. If the question was "Will it", I would have said "Maybe". Just so you know, the TS and me were discussing this topic offline a few days back.
I'm done here.
A transformer based converter does impact the input voltage less severely than a switch mode converter. But, an oversized conversion transformer with shielded windings and overrated wire costs in excess of 8000 (INR). This is a custom design I wanted for myself, but I needed an isolation transformer with amorphous core.
I still don't consider downconverting acceptable. I've heard the results and had switched out my HK transformers to custom-wound units for 230V. The sound actually improved dramatically. Then again the HK was a high power unit (capable of pulling 1000 watts through the mains cord).
The OP asked: Could it? And I said yes. If the question was "Will it", I would have said "Maybe". Just so you know, the TS and me were discussing this topic offline a few days back.
I'm done here.
observer said:
typically in a linear PSU, the transformer is the star of the show. either a bulky rectangular transformer or a toroidal transformer, and a few diodes , and again one or 2 huge filter capacitors,a few smaller ones and maybe a few voltage regulator IC's
in a switcher , there will be more than one coil, and there will be a lot of smaller capacitors , and a sprinkling of transistors /diodes. bottom line , it will look more complex
I really have no idea how exotic/high end equipment you are talking about , so I'm not sure. For regular use , another transformer in the path wont add anything to the sound , at least.
superczar
Juggernaut
I can perfectly understand if you don't want to answer the question, but perhaps Greenie or one of the electrical / electronic engrs around could help me figure this out..
I am still more than a lil little puzzled at how would an extra transformer in the path make a difference in the SQ (assuming of course that I am not using a 100 VA transformer for a device that draws 125)
blr_p
Northstar
sangram said:
The odd thing is that its all rectified by the time it gets to the DACs, so its kinda puzzling how a super clean power signal would make a diff over a not so clean one. By not so clean meaning not trash but not superb either.
If it does and i'll go with your decison on that, does it mean the unit's PSU is a bit more delicate than one would assume.
It has a tight input tolerance requirement and if you fall outside it then the results will match. Implying these units are designed for countries that on the whole have much cleaner mains supply than we do.
Here's two quick hints:
One is that current does not flow in one direction. It is critical to understand there is a return path to the source of power, and it is desirable to keep that path as low impedance as possible.
Two is that the transformer is actually a circuit. It's a magnetic circuit, and introduces both a power loss as well as a phase lag. Having two of them in series (I've had this discussion earlier on the exact same topic with Raghunandan, where IIRC none of us gave quarter) can (does?) funky things to the downstream units. Remember that the actual source is also a transformer (those big ones near your house), albeit a very large three-phase unit with a secondary impedance of pretty close to zero. The little converters you use aren't anywhere as low impedance as that.
As for the quality of power determined by rectification, that's a little easier to explain. It's not about rectification or smoothing. Transformers feed rectifiers and bridges, but in actual fact are also a load and a source. The secondary has to absorb all load effects (sink) and pass them back to the source (actually, all power supplies do this very thing). Reactances in series affect the ability of the transformer to sink return currents effectively.
Of course, all this is theory. In actual fact, you may never be able to hear the difference, but you should be able to measure the phase lag and the losses caused by the additional transformer. To overcome all of this you're looking at a conversion transformer in the region of 10x your load requirement, and even then not halfway to solving your problem.
One is that current does not flow in one direction. It is critical to understand there is a return path to the source of power, and it is desirable to keep that path as low impedance as possible.
Two is that the transformer is actually a circuit. It's a magnetic circuit, and introduces both a power loss as well as a phase lag. Having two of them in series (I've had this discussion earlier on the exact same topic with Raghunandan, where IIRC none of us gave quarter) can (does?) funky things to the downstream units. Remember that the actual source is also a transformer (those big ones near your house), albeit a very large three-phase unit with a secondary impedance of pretty close to zero. The little converters you use aren't anywhere as low impedance as that.
As for the quality of power determined by rectification, that's a little easier to explain. It's not about rectification or smoothing. Transformers feed rectifiers and bridges, but in actual fact are also a load and a source. The secondary has to absorb all load effects (sink) and pass them back to the source (actually, all power supplies do this very thing). Reactances in series affect the ability of the transformer to sink return currents effectively.
Of course, all this is theory. In actual fact, you may never be able to hear the difference, but you should be able to measure the phase lag and the losses caused by the additional transformer. To overcome all of this you're looking at a conversion transformer in the region of 10x your load requirement, and even then not halfway to solving your problem.
superczar
Juggernaut
yes, and the basic reason why it should be so is when you connect a high load to a secondary winding with high impedance, it will start dropping voltage like crazy....all the worse in the case of say an amp with fluctuating load, since the V drop would vary with the load causing inconsistent fluctuations
now when driving a 50W load with a transformer rated say 200W, the V drop/fluctuation would be minimal, nothing that a device with a good quality power supply won't be able to handle without any audible manifestation in the output
The power loss should be taken care of by an adequately over rated (2X real rating) transformer
Not sure of the phase lag piece..why should the phase lag matter to the bridge rectifier on the power supply? the same phase lag would be applicable across all the rectifiers in the bridge configuration thereby making any phase lag characterstics meaningless on the DC output section
Again, there may be a flaw in my understanding of basic electrical engg so can any elec. engg on the board plz correct me if I am wrong