Health & Fitness Corona is in full swing and its not Joke !

[nRiTeCh]

Hard to believe depends on your knowledge. Why would you doubt the doctors?

Why should I? When there was no food or medicine changes after vaccination how can they blame these things?

Don't want to argue anymore but this vaccination is just a one-sided theory.. Its either take it, leave it or better live without it but don't blame facts and ignore the figures.

 

[blr_p]

Its either take it, leave it or better live without it but don't blame facts and ignore the figures.

Bottom line : Can you risk not taking it given the overwhelming evidence against?

Until the moonsoons begin, this time of the year is a good time for infections to spread.

 

[ibose]

Can you risk not taking it given the overwhelming evidence against?

He has not taken it till date. Evidence be damned. You are better off talking to a stone wall instead of wasting time with the anti-vaxers.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@nRiTeCh
Fully understand and support your view points.

@blr_p
> There is the showoff factor
Not at all a show off guy, you will find the most austere person ever here. Am not at all an affluent person, but had options which I took by putting some efforts. No, Astra Zeneca vaccine was not an option for me. Nevertheless, there were issues with Astra Zeneca too, by the look of comments here.

> The question is why did you go with MRNA?

btw, why shouldn't one go with the most trusted vaccine from the most developed and advanced country in the entire world ?
mRNA was the chance I could select, only that I took at the earliest chance possible.
lolz. Dude, are you for real ?

> but I think it was fear that motivated you. And there was a LOT of fear mongering going on.

Why shouldn't fear motivate me to get the most advanced vaccine ?
Who were fear mongering (when compulsory vaccination proof was required to even enter offices, travels, etc. etc.) vs why there are stern voices against huge number of people who suffered from vaccine side effects ?
Why should their opinions or lived experiences not count ?
Am fine, so **** everyone else ? Strange thought process.

@ibose
You will still find staunch supporter of vaccination here.
That should not mean that suffering and realities of in-numerous people who suffered side effects should be suppressed. Don't know what other after effects waits even later. That is why this should be fully studied more and more in detail for future safety.
I find it strange when dealing with people those blindly believe, suppress others opinions and even proof.

For eg., Years back, I have tried my best to keep vaccination records (not for Covid19, of course) of children when I was in Mumbai, the good Dr. there recommended even to keep the package of vaccine bottle with me for future records, since we don't have such kind of facilities in our health system in Inida. Even our family members didn't care about all those, they just got 'vaccine injections', that is all. However, situation changed when we shifted to another state where school authorities were threatening us if the vaccine is not taken again ! We gave full proof of vaccines taken, yet they even wanted us to sign a document to confirm that it is our responsibility 'if something adverse happen' !
Heard they have some requirement from the educational / health system that every child should be vaccinated to show it in some statistics index and the same is supplanted by a private entity ! Probably why the grandstanding.
A local politician at that time even stated, there is not even a need for parental consent before children are vaccinated, they later corrected it...
This is the state of affairs around us.

People should remember that it is profit oriented mega corporations and supplanting government who approve all this. There needs more modern science, accountability, audit and safety measures, that is all.

 

[blr_p]

He has not taken it till date. Evidence be damned. You are better off talking to a stone wall instead of wasting time with the anti-vaxers.

Neither have I but I don't see that as a long term plan. If ever I have to spend time in a hospital I would not be surprised if I caught it there.

Anti vaxxers in the US did have a point as my doctor implied. They weren't in the wrong.

I just don't see why the same amount of anxiety should apply with the vaccines we get here.

The question is how long is the vaccine good for. If you've taken the first two doses but forget boosters for years after then are you better off than one that never took the vaccine?

No, Astra Zeneca vaccine was not an option for me.

Did you have to travel abroad?

Nevertheless, there were issues with Astra Zeneca too, by the look of comments here.

Not to the same extent as MRNA. And the reason is USG mandate to take the vaccine. It was worse in Canada which is why you had the truckers protest. We had no such govt requirement here.

> The question is why did you go with MRNA?

btw, why shouldn't one go with the most trusted vaccine from the most developed and advanced country in the entire world ?
mRNA was the chance I could select, only that I took at the earliest chance possible.
lolz. Dude, are you for real ?

How can it be most trusted when they were using a novel approach?

The reason mRNA never took off over here was the refrigeration requirement.

The medical profession here and the UK has a more conservative approach to treatment than in the US where there's a pill for anything and everything.

> but I think it was fear that motivated you. And there was a LOT of fear mongering going on.

Why shouldn't fear motivate me to get the most advanced vaccine ?
Who were fear mongering (when compulsory vaccination proof was required to even enter offices, travels, etc. etc.)

If it was required to enter offices then Covishield was already available. I guess having gone with an import that was what you were stuck with

vs why there are stern voices against huge number of people who suffered from vaccine side effects ?
Why should their opinions or lived experiences not count ?
Am fine, so **** everyone else ? Strange thought process

Not saying they should not count. Just differentiating.

People should remember that it is profit oriented mega corporations and supplanting government who approve all this. There needs more modern science, accountability, audit and safety measures, that is all.

People always bang on about the profit motive ignoring the urgency of the situation. Think about that for a little and put yourselves in the shoes of any govt.

Of course they had to cut some corners and the decision was made to save the most lives.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@blr_p
Was not located in India.

> How can it be most trusted when they were using a novel approach?
Again, why should not one trust vaccine by 'the most advanced modern science' provide vaccine from the most advanced country in the world. And they applied it on majority of people there.

> If it was required to enter offices then Covishield was already available. I guess having gone with an import that was what you were stick with
As mentioned earlier, Covishield was not an available option, would've given first preference in case available.

> Of course they had to cut some corners
That is the whole point. Now that it happened, more studies should be done to treat those who suffered from side effect.
But when profit is again a motive together with hiding facts, it is not actually the so called 'trust modern science bro' for everyone.
Those who suffered should know what really happened, honest and transparent research should be done as per 'modern scientific' standards, so that future vaccines can be made more safely for humankind.

 

[blr_p]

@blr_p
Was not located in India.

Ah! you should have said that earlier.

> How can it be most trusted when they were using a novel approach?
Again, why should not one trust vaccine by 'the most advanced modern science' provide vaccine from the most advanced country in the world. And they applied it on majority of people there.

> If it was required to enter offices then Covishield was already available. I guess having gone with an import that was what you were stick with
As mentioned earlier, Covishield was not an available option, would've given first preference in case available.

Yeah in your case there was no choice.

> Of course they had to cut some corners
That is the whole point. Now that it happened, more studies should be done to treat those who suffered from side effect.
But when profit is again a motive together with hiding facts, it is not actually the so called 'trust modern science bro' for everyone.

If any additional treatment is required then the profit motive applies. It was quite a push to get those vaccines done in the first place and that was truly an achievement.

Why no such vaccine exists for dengue or chickun gunya. Wouldn't it be good to have such a vaccine. Not viable yet from a profit sense

Those who suffered should know what really happened, honest and transparent research should be done as per 'modern scientific' standards, so that future vaccines can be made more safely for humankind.

I don't see why this won't happen over time but it will have to be under the radar.

 

[enginear]

He has not taken it till date. Evidence be damned. You are better off talking to a stone wall instead of wasting time with the anti-vaxers.

I have only taken first dose of vax and that too due to immense family pressure.
I would say not every good is good for everyone. My sister-in-law and her family also suffered side effects, but nobody was ready to listen to them, nobody means the doctors while pharmacists agreed there have been reactions observed on few patients but if doctors want to plainly ignore it then where shall one go?
Will simply say only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches and it's easy to rant and poke otherwise.


@blr_p You yourselves haven't got vaccinated then why so much gyan and be defensive around? Why didn't you not take the vax?

 

[Neotheone]

I don't see why this won't happen over time but it will have to be under the radar.

I would love for it to happen, and hope that it does, but its likely in my view, that even under the radar efforts will get ignored/scuttled until somehow, we find a better model of healthcare. Neither our failed government run healthcare model nor the current de-facto capitalist model of healthcare, which is far more efficient but can throw caution and long-term-ism to the wind.

We also need drug/vaccine regulators worth their salt and multidisciplinary experts in decision making. Current state of regulation and supervision is a mess globally (which led to MRNA vaccine approvals), and but there is evidence to claim that we are worse in general, with some exceptions.

BTW on another point: Doctors are not always trained or well versed with the vaccine approval statistics and they see local phenomena limited to their patient set and rely on intelligence from their professional network/studies but such views can have limited explanatory power/statistical significance, so to speak. Further, doctors are also usually short on time due to the nature of their jobs. A lot of modern healthcare is based on trust of regulatory bodies who approve treatments and doctors take their word for it. There is one way to scientifically assess the risks and rewards of vaccines that have already been administered: Conduct large scale retrospective studies (or other similar analysis on credible datasets) between vaccinated and unvaccinated cohorts, run by personnel without any conflict of interest. I do not see it happening anytime soon though :/

PS: India's VAERs reporting platform is not a credible dataset because reporting is virtually impossible for majority who suffer side effects. It has been recognized right up to the supreme court of India, but there have been no apparent changes yet.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@enginear
> I would say not every good is good for everyone. My sister-in-law and her family also suffered side effects, but nobody was ready to listen to them, nobody means the doctors while pharmacists agreed there have been reactions observed on few patients but if doctors want to plainly ignore it then where shall one go?

This, this is a serious problem. Have health care workers as relatives, when casually talked about the bad experience, they were balking at me as if am an alien. One of them was like, 'oh, it is time for us to leave'. I felt offended, kept that in my mind for future interactions with them. lol, what else one can do. Rather, nurses from foreign countries understood the concern better.

 

[Rockfella]

I guess I did the right thing not getting the vaccine.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@Rockfella
As said by blr_p, mRNA is comparatively new technology, rampantly reported by people for having some side effects.
Aren't there intra-nasal version of vaccines tested these days ? Probably is safe ?
Or Covaxin which is supposedly less powerful may help ? Don't know...

 

[ibose]

Will simply say only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches and it's easy to rant and poke otherwise.

I took 2 + 1 booster of Covaxin and survived two bouts of Covid, the second as recently in the first week of Feb. My senior citizen parents (one of whom has co-morbidities) took 2 + 1 booster of Covishield. The second time I got infected, even though I isolated and took all precautions, both of them also got infected but eventually recovered.
So yes, it's easy for me to rant and poke but I did not force you, so don't take it. Please come back to this thread when both the shoes come off.

 

[blr_p]

@blr_p You yourselves haven't got vaccinated then why so much gyan and be defensive around? Why didn't you not take the vax?

Initially the idea was to avoid crowds. Best way to catch something. Since there was a schedule for the second it would be the same again. Time went on that way.

Where do you see me being defensive here?

Back to the recent report on study of risks, even this news coverage is sugar coated with arguments that risk of vaccine is less than risk of COVID.

That would be the main reason to get the vaccine for most people

Yet, nobody can scientifically claim that long term risks would not turn out to be higher than what trials estimated. This is because trials were not even designed to look for long term risks.

How long is the vaccine effective for?

If you need boosters for the rest of your life then that is where the long term risk lies.

But I cannot see much risk if you've taken the first two mandatory doses and then held off.

 

[enginear]

I took 2 + 1 booster of Covaxin and survived two bouts of Covid, the second as recently in the first week of Feb. My senior citizen parents (one of whom has co-morbidities) took 2 + 1 booster of Covishield. The second time I got infected, even though I isolated and took all precautions, both of them also got infected but eventually recovered.
So yes, it's easy for me to rant and poke but I did not force you, so don't take it. Please come back to this thread when both the shoes come off.

And this is the problem where one feels he has won the war just because everything went fine with him and expects the others too to follow irrespective of the sufferings.
People like you clearly fail to understand that not all 5 fingers are similar and that different bodies react differently. It's like, if you are not having an allergy consuming a particular food item and if the other person suffers you will simply keep defending on your pov because you are not the sufferer here while claiming the others suffering sheer baseless.

I can sense a person with artificial limbs and shoes which never get hurt so no wonder he doesn't feel the pain.

 

[Mr.J]

Tf is going on in this thread

 

[ibose]

expects the others too to follow irrespective of the sufferings.

You are mistaken. I am not expecting that at all .. please feel free to do as you like .. no one has forced anyone to take anything so I don't understand why you got triggered and chose to quote me in the first instance. I chose to share my experience and I am free to ask any questions to anyone. So tell me, are you expecting others to just follow you blindly ?
You chose to became an anti-vaxer given your experience, which I fully understand. I was telling the other poster that it is of no use speaking with you all, that is it. I don't see why you need to feel bad about it.

 

[TinTinSnowy]

The Brits refer to their Astra Zeneca vaccine as Indian whereas we call it Oxford

Serum Institute did contract manufacturing for Covidshield. We did not develop this vaccine.

 

[Neotheone]

But I cannot see much risk if you've taken the first two mandatory doses and then held off.

I hope you are right, but I feel that many are assuming that two shot vaccines can not have long term adverse effects, which is good if its just hope, but tricky if its a belief when it comes to objectively looking at the need for more transparency and data, and most importantly learning lessons for future pandemics/vaccine mandates (if necessary).

Old vaccine platforms might hopefully have lower risks of long term adverse consequences than MRNA, but now there is emerging evidence that observed risks including in AstraZeneca ChAdOx1 are significantly higher than those estimated in stage 3 trials, so I would not be so sure, especially given the fact that trials were rushed which hurt the quality of the trials across vaccines, and possibly made the trials meaningless.

 

[TEUser2K1]

I took 2 + 1 booster of Covaxin and survived two bouts of Covid, the second as recently in the first week of Feb. My senior citizen parents (one of whom has co-morbidities) took 2 + 1 booster of Covishield. The second time I got infected, even though I isolated and took all precautions, both of them also got infected but eventually recovered.
So yes, it's easy for me to rant and poke but I did not force you, so don't take it. Please come back to this thread when both the shoes come off.

Apparently, there were concerns that Covaxin effectiveness were not that great.
After seeing your post, those concerns looks interesting.