Created this thread out of boredom and frustration

PCJedi said:
You could replace the words, Muslims here with "blacks" or "Jews" - depending on which era you were born in. and which ideology you subscribed to -
The KKK believes in Deliverance of the White christian from the blacks and browns.
The Idea of pure Aryan race still lives in the hearts of many in mid-west Europe.

I don't know the color of you skin. but I hope you don't meet any dot-busters.

For centuries, many superior civiliazations and nasty invaders have invaded and destroyed civilizations. Well..the British Invaded America, the north tried to abolish the south from 1700 to 1776. It was sad the yankees won.

And then there were people who did not blame it on genology and religion.

There was Mangal pandey, and Bhagat singh - closer to home. but history has much more if these in the american revolution, the crusades, the egyptian conquests. etc.

I believe in the power of One. It takes one person to start a movement. Do you have the courage. Cowards work in mobs and groups. and they can be hindu or muslim or christians. Religon dosen't make a difference, it is fear and power. A mob, a political agenda, a personal vendetta, all bring the fear.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

I sense much fear in you."

Yoda
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I don't know what ideology you suscribe to but you sure seem to be a fan of
the leftist whore Arundhati Roy.
Are problems between white and blacks?Sure.Are there anti-Indian/Asian racial groups in America?Of course there are!
My point is:The Blacks know what the whites did to them,the American whites have finally acknowledged that fact and they have moved on as a nation.
Germany has formally repented against the murder of 6 million jews.
But have the Muslims in India(and Pakistan) ever acknowledged their historical crimes?No!
If you PM me I'll give enough evidence for my point of view.The Muslim Genocide of Hindu India was the most brutal in history(an estimated 50-100 millon dead between 1300-1500 A.D.).Yet it is largely not heard of?Why?Coz the genocide was so complete that most of the literary works of early medieval India were destrooyed by the Islamic butchers.
 
SunMysore said:
**** : that nikhil is hopeless
Sunny: lol...y?
**** : his stupid thread
Sunny: hahha
Sunny: post like me
**** : not posting
Sunny: it'll go waaaaaay OT
**** : i dont approve of his thoughts
Sunny: ohhhk
**** : i was thinking of saying something though
**** : his argument is that "Indians speak good english because of the British"
**** : wanted to ask him if his grandpa built the 50k odd km of indian railways
Sunny: lmao
**** : or if his grandma brought electricity here
**** : or if his pop in law formed the Indian army
Sunny: rofl..
**** : should just ban this ****
Sunny: LMAO ROFL!!!!!!
**** : ban all these spammers
:rofl: its a yahoo messneger convo :P
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Hey.....

no offence.... every person has his own opinion..... and if **** thinks I deserve to be banned, let him make a formal complaint against TE. I don't care.... I know I have not borken any rules....

And it is a fact that because we were occupied by the British, we are on e step ahead when it comes to English than many Asian countries.... this is one of the main reasons for the BPOs doing so well....

And as I will accept.... the british did do a lot of good.... but you cannot deny that they did more harm than good..... It is just a matter of time.... because the british were ruling at that time, we got all these stuff from them.

But if we were an independant country, we would have got all of this maybe 10 yrs later.... but our dignity and independance would still be there. We would be oour own rulers..... No one to dictate what we can do or what we can't do...

It is easy for you to talk now and look at the good things the british did..... but freedom means a lot more than adavnces in science and all that......
If you have guts, then come out in the open and argue instead of hiding under anonymity.....
 
No matter what, you just cannot equate different people, whether of the same family, caste, race, colour, country, cult or religion. Saying that "Muslims in India(and Pakistan) ever acknowledged their historical crimes?No!" is simply saying that the present generation Muslims are in some way related to/accountable for the deeds of the (few) Mughal rulers who ill treated people of other religions. The Aurangzeb's exist in every religion (even today), and such people do deserve punishment, but think of them individually, instead of saying that "If a single element a is rotten, the entire set X containing it must be rotten too".

Just remember that the purpose of studying history is to learn something, not avenge something.

And before you ask, I neither subscribe to leftist nor rightist ideologies :P
 
Well said ujjwal.... I agree with you 100%. I found it stupid when Germany keeps regretting for the Genocide..... it is not like the present generation of people had anything to do with it......... If anyone should apologise, it should have been the Nazis at that time...... but obviously, that is not possible.. they are butchers of the worst kind.....

How could they kill millions so cold boodedly??? One of life's mysteries I guess......
 
hmm wasn`t this a thread about development???? lol....
and hmmm ya the british did do good things for us. .definately.. but then again with their rule over india for 150 years... good things didn`t happen they were bound to happen...cause every coin has 2 sides!
and blaming it on the muslims... man.. i dont think so.. if that`s soo then blame the hindus too for having the caste system which degrades life of people...the untouchables etc... do we need the caste system to diffrentiate poeple?? doesn`nt that affect the lives of so many hindus and doesnt let them live the way they want too.
and taking about the caste system?? man the politicians still use this as a tool to get votes why??? cause if people are educated they would know that these a$$es are bogus .. they don't care for us or for development just wanna fill the pockets...

hmm rather than flaming on the name of religion.. why not just talk about how this country can become a better place to live..... !!
 
Nikhil said:
No Hacker..... The British were totally exploting us..... They were not giving us a fair chance to live.... What happened in Hong Kong is different. It was the modern age. So, they had to treat the people properly.....
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After reading all the posts it seems to me that you just want to force your opinion down our throats.

What modern age are you talking, did you know how hong kong was 50 years ago. Another example is south africa. What im saying is that instead complete independence, indians n brits both should have lived peacefully in india.

India still faces all the problems it was facing before freedom hunger, poverty, population etc.

but our dignity and independance would still be there. We would be oour own rulers..... No one to dictate what we can do or what we can't do...
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What dignity are you talking. When ppl in us n uk talk about India, they say the land of beggars.
Did you know that Mumbai still uses the sewer system built by the brits 70 years ago.
 
Hacker said:
After reading all the posts it seems to me that you just want to force your opinion down our throats.

What modern age are you talking, did you know how hong kong was 50 years ago. Another example is south africa. What im saying is that instead complete independence, indians n brits both should have lived peacefully in india.

India still faces all the problems it was facing before freedom hunger, poverty, population etc.

What dignity are you talking. When ppl in us n uk talk about India, they say the land of beggars.

Did you know that Mumbai still uses the sewer system built by the brits 70 years ago.
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Well seems like your are living the american dream. If you are so concerned abt the opinions of the ppl of US here's some food for thought. Read it ! Madhu trehan is a writer for the outlook, she got a similar letter from a like minded indian who cared more abt what others think of india rather than helping the cause

Hi Madhu

I have read your articles ever since I was a kid and you were at India Today. You have often come across as a balanced person not prone to Gandhi nonsense, until now.

I live in a White Nation (the US) and have never felt like a second class citizen. Only a blind and a deaf person can compare the pride of a US citizen with the indignity of being an India. A US citizen trusts his government, knows his/her death will never go unpunished, while an Indian solider is there to die.

Elite is a bad word in India because 95% of our country lives in abject poverty. Next time ask the waiter in Taj who served you the Rs 400 drink, how much he makes in a month. The Durban who opens the door for you, ask him how much he makes? I bet his monthly salary will be around your dinner bill. Shame on you and journalists like you who have failed India in the past with coloured reporting and are doing so now. They should feel ashamed. Rather than calling bush names, maybe we should hang our heads in shame on PM’s like Vajpayee who is too old to walk, too much of a coward to protect his people.

Maybe, just maybe, the day people like us (the English educated hence smarter) start feeling ashamed enough we will start making changes in India rather than just exploiting our servants and labour class. It anguishes me to read this national character articles. A nation that cannot feed its people (a la Orrisa) has no character, a nation whose children move around naked (Mumbai) has no reason to feel proud, a nation whose elected reps call religious riots “opposite reaction†has no future.

Once again, shame on you and all of India. I am ashamed to be an Indian and shame on you for suggesting anything else.

Chet
(Chaitanya)
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Her reply !
madhu trehan said:
Her response was

Hello Chet,
I will answer your letter point by point.
O Your name. You can be Chet or Jet, stay away from the sun, fake an American accent, but you will never be able to run away from Chaitanya. He will always be there even though you hate him today.

O Gandhi, whom you hold in such contempt, despite all his controversial behavior, is largely responsible for the fact that there is no white boot on a part of your anatomy today.

O You live in a white nation but you are not white and never will be. You can fool yourself to believe that you are not treated as a second class citizen. You choose to forget the Dot Busters, the Sikh who was killed because he looked foreign and rampant racism. How many times a week do you have to explain where you are from and spend your time EXPLAINING India to Americans? I cringe to think what you say to them about India. We do not need spokesman such as you. You will never be able to share a good desi joke with any of your new friends. If you can’t laugh together, you cannot understand each other. You will always be an alien.

O Yes, we are economically poor compared to US but we do not have to suffer the highest rate of teenage pregnancies, kids coming into schools and killing students and teachers, the highest rate of suicide among college students, alienated parents and children, lonely old people dumped into old age homes, drugs being offered to eight year olds (as my daughter was when she was in the UN school in New York), serial marriages and divorces. The US had a president who was senile and deaf (Reagan), one who turned out to be a serial sex offender (Clinton), and now you have one who didn’t know the heads of state of major countries and ignored warnings of a terrorist attack months before it took place. The US is responsible for massacres in Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Chile and the list goes on. The rest of the world does not view America with the rose-coloured glasses you have been brainwashed by the US media to see thorough. And, how much does a waiter in Jean Georges restaurant in Trump International Hotel in New York make compared to the price of the drink he is serving? The labour class in exploited all over the world.

O You seem to very upset that I am pointing out we have a national character to be ashamed of and we should do something about it. Your insistence that we stay ashamed and do nothing about it is perhaps to make it easier for you to live in a country where the only religion is to hang out at malls and accumulate consumer items you don’t really need but have been diktated by advertising to buy that, to keep the US economy going. It is not by accident that Americans are flocking to yoga and meditation classes to buy happiness.

O You have done well to leave a country you are ashamed of. Call yourself an American but sooner or later your disguise and American Halloween costume will frighten you enough to get rid of it.

O I love America’s energy and have good friends there. New York is a centre for an enormous outpouring of creativity and imaginative thinking. Every country has its own problems. It is for the people who belong there to take responsibility for change.

O If you are so far removed from India, ask yourself why you are so anguished with my article. Chaitanya is raising his head, Chet is in trouble.

Regards,
Madhu Trehan
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Final piece of advise: If your are not doing anything for your motherland plz atleast dont disrespect it and its ppl.
 
nice post blade.....
and ya your right man.. if you can`t do anything for your motherland then dont disrespect it.... when your born in this nation you get free citizenship don't you..
why is that we have to view everything negatively??
many a times you go into a theatre and you have to stand up for the national anthem people don' t wanna get up for the national anthem... why?? cause its school thingy.. you only sang it when you were in schoool!! and its not gonna make any difference in thier lives if they sang it...
why not view it this way..with everything bad happening around us, the rape, abuse, bad roads, corruption etc.... why not just stand up for 1 minute and sing the national anthem so that just for that one moment , one minute , you feel proud to be an Indian.. whats the harm?????? ....
why cant we form an ALM (or something similar) ourselves here on techenclave? with so many people from diff walks of life and dif parts of india. i think we surely can make a diff in in a small but concrete way .. what say??
 
Ok.... what exactly is an ALM??

And Blade --- Nice post.....

And I ALWAYS get goosebumps when I stand for the national anthem..... I am sure all you guys also must have tht feeling when you sing or even stand for the national anthem.
 
well alm`s usually only work in a particular locality..
its usually a group of highly motivated people who wanna do some social work work in their locality .... and they coordinate along with the the BMC or whatever it is in your area to get the work done ... eg, cleaning up sewers, building better roads, pavements, better infrastructure etc....
though it won`t be possible to form alm`s here on techenclave.. but it would be good if people could post about them here.. if they know any ....
 
India's problem was always and always will be Indians. yep you read it right.

1. Political challenge

a: Muslims [almost all of them converted Hindus] who prefer to live by Saudi Arabian traditions peddled in the name of Islam.

b: Communist Hindus who support them in the name of secularism.

what they dont realize secularism had a context of control freak catholic chruch in europe. We dont have any of that in india. A Hindu can choose from 37 million gods who she/he wants to worship. man how secular can you get.

so...
Most leaders spend thier political capital and will keeping this country "Secular" raher than Infrastructure and policy directions.

2. Economic Challenges

a: Strategy: inspite of IT etc Theres no real direction in the economy. theres absolutely no planning and even if there is thes no execution. if anygood has happened its inspite of this planning not because of it.

b: Red Tape: eg: getting a .com is way easier than getting a .co.in domain

3. Cultural challenges

from language to food anything western is supposedly cooler. Thats the subliminal message we get from our media [cable... u name it] . Its no more what you like but what your are supposed to like.

Media here belives in controlling information rather than telling the truth. they tell you what you are supposed to like,what you are supposed to hate, whats cool and whats not, what you should think about the particular issue and what you shouldn't

guru posted 13.75 minutes later:
Nikhil said:
And as for me, while the BJP was in power, I wanted to vote for them(I was not yet 19 during the last election). But then, after the Congress (UPA) got elected, the BJP showed it's true colours. I now hate the BJP more than the Congress.....

So, we talk abt people not fulfilling their duty abt voting for the elections.... I see it this way, what is the use??? Instead of electing a BJP criminal, you elect a crook from the Congress.... that is all.....
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BJP screwed up big time. Im not saying this because of Advanis remark but the general line the party took when it was in power and out of it. Like everyone else they belived in sucking up to muslims = secularism

They have lost their ideology : political and econoimic [still the only party that belives in free enterprise and less taxes]

what gives me hope about this party is the intra party democarcy that was shown in light of Advanis remarks. Many senoir leaders didn't agree with thier president and said so in public "no-hard-feelings-but-i-dont-agree-with-you thats all. Any other party would have split into couple of smaller parties.

There will always be crooks in politics. Its not good vs bad its bad vs worse.
 
Abt the ALMs.... You need government cooperations also. Here in Bangalore under the SM Krishna govt, we had BATF or Bangalore Agenda Task Force.... It had members of the public like Nandan Nilekani(head of Infosys), Kiran Mazumdar Shaw(head of Biocon) and others. It used to interact directly with govt organisations like BCC(B'lore City Corporation), BESCOM(B'lore Electricity), BWSSB(Bangalore water supply and sewage board), traffic police, and other govt organisations.

They did a lot of good work. after the elections, S M Krishna was pushed out of office and the new govt(actually govt is too polite a word. Rather a bunch of goons in a high office) said that they will keep the BATF going as they were doing so much good work.

It has been one year and the BATF no longer exists. Even if they did, what can they do alone?? You need some sort of support from the govt. Nothing can be done on your own.

And today, the infrastructure of B'lore has been severely criticised by everyone, right from Azim Premji, Narayan Murthy, Nandan Nilekani, P Chidambaram, Manmohan Singh, EVERYBODY. And the govt is doing NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY Fing NOTHING.

What is the damn use of the BATF being set up then?? Nothing can be accomplished in 2 or 3 years. You need an extended plan of action.

Same thing applies to the post of Commissioner of Polic. The post is given to one person for 1 year!!! What the f can he accomplish in one year ??? No wonder the police are considered to be among the most corrupt government agencies.....
 
undertaker said:
Well I don't how many will agree with me but most of our present problems are due to islamic invasions.Yes I am anti-muslim to the core but I don't hate muslims personally.
Its just the cumulative effect of what Islam has done to this once proud nation that just can't be ignored.I once too believed in the Hindu-Muslim unity crap given in textbooks,thats nonsense.
After going through a lot of material (you could say medieval history is a hobby),its clear that most of our problems are due to the Islamic invasions.In Naipaul's words(I know I quote him too often but hez I my favourite writer on this topic) India is a wounded civilization ,wounded so brutally that it doesn't remember its true identity.
I am all for a secular state but having lived in a country like Saudi Arabia I have realized what a repugnant religion Islam really is.
I could probably fill a 100 pages with this but b4 you people say "WTF u saying?" I would like to ask you a question ,does anyone know what "Hindu-Kush" mountains in Afghanistan stand for?It means Hindu-slaughter and its shameful that not one voice is raised by the Indian government against this.
Had it not been for Islam ,would India have been divided?No.Infact even Afghanistan would still be Gandhar(Gandhar+"K" from Kafir=Kandahar!).Would such a large nation spanning from Bengal and Assam to the very tip of Iran not be as if not more powerful than China?
And lets not forget that most of the very worst of our politicians rely heavily on the Muslim vote bank(Mulayam,Laloo who propagates a mass-murderer like Shahbuddin etc...).People like Narendra Modi (look at how much he has developed Gujarat,an India Today report showed that most villages there will have 24x7 electricity in a few years and many already have it!) are infact the saviours of our nation but unfortunately the leftist(I have more scorn for the likes of Yechury and Surjeet than even Laloo) media (eg. NDTV) potrays him as a villain.
And as 9/11 shows Muslims can't live in peace with anyone.Whether it be Kashmir,Chechnya or New York!
And do you know that as a non-muslim you can't go anywhere near Mecca and Medina but here in India they want to have(and actually have) mosques in Ayodhya and Mathura!What a shame!
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have to say that some post :O

you are right, but we have ourselves to blame. We hindus have never stood for each other.

few more points i'd like to make

1. Muslims are humans like you and me. They are neither good nor bad. Its their ideology => Islam which makes them sick. Kinda like Germans, normal people but when they belived in Nazi Ideology, look what happened

2. Hindus are basically losers. Losers get what they deserve

ps:Wow, Techenclave respects free speech even if admins/mods dont agree with most of the stuff here and iwas thinking this is politically correct left wing place lol
 
guru said:
have to say that some post :O

you are right, but we have ourselves to blame. We hindus have never stood for each other.

few more points i'd like to make

1. Muslims are humans like you and me. They are neither good nor bad. Its their ideology => Islam which makes them sick. Kinda like Germans, normal people but when they belived in Nazi Ideology, look what happened

2. Hindus are basically losers. Losers get what they deserve

ps:Wow, Techenclave respects free speech even if admins/mods dont agree with most of the stuff here and iwas thinking this is politically correct left wing place lol
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SuperNova said:
ok guys...

just want to put a dampner here. Please remember we have people from all over India and the world here. Try to respect their views and keep of controversy. Discussing something is good but just make sure whether what you post does not offend others. My view is that everyone has his supporters. What is rogue for one is god for others. U may hate him, but others may like him. Politics especially is like that and the number 1 cause for flaming.
If you want to discuss something constructive do so but RESPECT others views and even more so THINK before you post that it may not offend others. We are a tech+fun board that welcomes people without any bars from all countries. Make sure we remain that way..
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Just a flashback for all.

Well use your head not your heart to think.
 
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