Democracy V Freedom

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Neotheone

Figuring stuff out
Herald
The two terms are used exceedingly by the international media. Even our desi media keeps talking about the great democracy that we are. We have been conditioned to believe that democracy is the purest form of government that there can be. We are told that this is the reason for our freedom. What I have been feeling is that democracy is simply something that inevitably gets misused by the crooks in any society, no matter how literate , advanced or smart they might be considered to be. Freedom becomes a mere buzzword and people are merely kept in the illusion of being free unless they are forced out of it (and most never come out , so the democracy keeps rolling on).

I looked around on the web and found a few pages that I thought might be worth mentioning

Democracy Versus Freedom

A few quotes from the above links:

Throughout the world, thugs and despots — some democratically elected, and some not — solemnly give lip-service to “democracy” and “freedom,” while doing everything in their power to destroy them.

In a democracy, if most voters support freedom of speech, press, religion, association, and enterprise, their elected government will probably respect such freedoms.

But if voters prefer that governments impose a welfare state and confiscatory taxes, ban unapproved drugs, impose censorship, imprison critics, seize the property of unpopular groups, torture prisoners, and draft the young, a democratic government will probably grant those wishes also.

Democracy Is Not Freedom by Rep. Ron Paul

Democracy Is Not Freedom

I would like to know how many of us here truly believe that we are actually free human beings in this democracy? I would be happy to know the views of people on the original issue regarding democracy and the right to true personal freedom.
 
I hated Civics in school, the only thing I learned about Democracy was from Civ games -- increases production,increases corruption, increases war weariness :D
 
The first question to ask is what exactly is your definition of freedom. If it is the right to do whatever you want, then that would include theft, assault and even murder. But the flipside is that in that freedom, you are impinging on the freedom of others to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as the saying goes. This level of individual freedom was what reigned in despotic, tyrannical and anarchic states. Some people had more freedoms than others, as in they had the freedom to do what they wished at the expense of those 'below' them.

Nowadays, this concept seems barbaric, since we have been raised in an era of social freedom. Freedom with limits so that everybody is treated the same. In other words, I can do whatever I please as long as it follows a set of rules (be it laws or widely accepted social morals) which were put in place to prevent me from taking another's freedom(s) away. This concept, in its most pure sense, is what is libertarianism. Ron Paul, (the former US presidential candidate the OP linked to) is a staunch libertarian. For the same reason he believes that the government has no role to play in things like drugs and abortion, because they are simply not government issues. His take is what people do with their own bodies is their own choice, and the government has no right to interfere. Even though as an individual he is against the two, as a government official, he understands he cannot use his position to impose his moral values on others (the primary reason I respect him so much).

But at the end of the day, we do need a government to provide us with a foundation to help society and the human race as a whole to progress. Road networks is a good example to work with. It isnt feasible for people to make and maintain their own roads in front of their house or their route to work. Sharing of roadways also becomes an issue. And the economic impact of their being no roadways is unthinkable in the modern world. Sure, they can be privatized, but unless its a guaranteed open market (ie, it doesnt end up as a monopoly) the company which 'owns' the roads has the right to not allow people who in some way may threaten its interests (read profit margin\stock value) to use it. Even if what these people are trying to do is for the betterment of their people. A lot of these problems with privatization of former government sectors are cropping up in the states, like weapons manufacturers, and electronic voting machines.

The main connection between freedom and democracy, is that the people have the freedom to chose who will represent them in the government. Theoretically, democracy should be a completely transparent system, and maybe it is, but the average citizen doesnt know what options are available to him and usually, they are comfortable in their ignorance. The freedom to chose your representative also includes the right to not vote...as in you still have to go and vote, but then vote for no one. Not many people do this, nor do those holier-than-though 'voting-is-your-democratic-duty' campaigners tell you that its even an option. This represents what causes problems with democracy; the apathy or ignorance of the people to challenge what their government does. Not because information is inaccessible, but because its hard to find. Think of it like a book hidden away in some dark corner in a library that the librarian wont help you find, or you dont even know has been written.

I think I may have gone way off topic here, and I've lost my train of thought...hope it helps :)
 
^^ Help it did, Indeed . I did not know that we actually had the right to cast a "void vote" . What I was actually worried about though was the way our society's thinking is being manipulated through the media. There is absolutely no channel/newspaper that reports the truth about political news. The media has become far too diplomatic these days.
 
Neotheone said:
^^ Help it did, Indeed . I did not know that we actually had the right to cast a "void vote" . What I was actually worried about though was the way our society's thinking is being manipulated through the media. There is absolutely no channel/newspaper that reports the truth about political news. The media has become far too diplomatic these days.

Unfortunately, the chain mail doing round since the last couple of years is a hoax. The only right you have apart from casting a vote in favor of a candidate is to declare to the election officer your intention to not vote and sign some papers regarding the same. Such a declaration has *no* effect on the outcome of any election whatsoever.
 
kippu said:
man they better be paying you for what you guys type ...i hope they pay me for reading it too

:lol: May I ask who does "they" refer to ? .....I would love it though if someone would actually pay me :bleh: :bleh:

Seriously though, I watch different news channels pretty regularly and find it hard to find stuff that makes sense.....maybe I am getting paranoid.....maybe not.
 
Neotheone said:
The two terms are used exceedingly by the international media. Even our desi media keeps talking about the great democracy that we are. We have been conditioned to believe that democracy is the purest form of government that there can be. We are told that this is the reason for our freedom.

Former Communist countries usually referred to themselves as democratic.

So 'democratic' does not have anything to do with free.

All democratic conerns itself with is the process of electing governent.

Freedom comes from a constitution or bill of rights. This is where freedoms are codified into law. On its own it is worthless unless enforced by said govt.

We do not have absolute freedom of expression in this country.

Since an amendment in 1951, there is no longer a right to offend as ppl thought it would be impossible to prosecute anyone advocating murder.

Apart from this major concession we are at par with most other 'free' countries.
 
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