DSL Modem Router for 10k?

[toxicdrift]

thing is i have two flats as one, have two different mains .. but i read online sometimes they work aslong as ur wires are interconnected... which they probably will be.. so im just trying this out. incase it doesnt work. what ill try doing is to keep them at the closest power outs from each room and try a cat5 connection between the routers or make them access points.. lol will need some wifi gurus help to set them up, worst case scenario.. ill haveto sell them or see if the electrician can work his magic somehow, (cuz were trying to redo some parts of the house) lets see. i just ordered the dlink 309AV starter kit

 

[blr_p]

@blr_p

Quick update. I still wasn't very happy with the internet speed on my PS3 and TV. The signal was varying between 20% and 50%. Youtube wouldn't stream and everything was laggy.

Bought a WL-ANT191 hoping it would solve the problem. Didn't help.

Do you know what the gain in dbi of the stock rt-n66 antenna is ?

Even though you got decent signal power what ? 60-70dbm where you wanted it, yet it still wasn't enough to even stream youtube.

Finally invested in a the cheapest powerline adapters i could find. Picked these up from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-PA2010KIT-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B00AWRUIY4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383819755&sr=8-2&keywords=tp-link powerline

I'm officially a fan of Powerline. Solved all my problems. Plugged in one of the adapters in my bedroom and connected it to my router. Connected the other adapter in the dining room and moved the Asus router there and connected the adapter to it. My signal strength is now rock solid at around 75%. Youtube streams perfectly.

Can you measure data throughput over powerline and tell us what the transfer speed is like ?

See what you said in June

Briefly thought about investing in powerline adapters but the wiring is so screwed up in my house, the UPS fellows who came to install the UPS at our home asked us to change the wiring because apparently AEH and lighting were on the same line. This is in the process of being fixed but wouldn't solve my problem of having multiple devices using the internet in the living room.

You were stuck and wanted a better option, you took a gamble and it worked. Was it a gamble or did you get a demo before buying ?

Have you made any changes to your house wiring since June ?

dining room and bedroom must be on the same circuit, it helps they are adjoining so you lose less signal. So long as one can confirm both rooms are on the same circuit, i think we can reduce the gamble here. Lets say you attached the adapter in the room where your tv was and did not use wifi at all. What would the powerline signal be like over there. Want to test and let us know ? is living room on the same circuit as well. You mentioned earlier everything was on the same circuit so i guess you could use those adapters any where in your house and the only limitation would be the distance the signal had to cover before geting too attenuated to be useful.

Trying to find ways to give a convincing argument to anybody whether powerline will work or not.

rt-n66u in your dining room means just one wall away from your tv. Its also more centrally located so you should get good wifi all over the house now. The signal crosses at max only 2 walls to anywhere in the house.

Still haven't been able to figure out why DLNA doesn't work. Any suggestions?

Here's my setup --> PC -> Dlink Modem -> powerline -> powerline -> Router -> TV

The PC is connected to the Dlink modem via a LAN cable.

It means the DLNA server port is getting blocked somewhere and cannot reach the clients. Why would that happen ? you just moved the asus one step after the powerline. powerline is like a cable. Does it have a built in firewall ?

 

[vivek.krishnan]

Powerline works - but is susceptible to your wiring. In short, its a gamble.

I would advice on running external wires if your building allows it. Works fine for me.

Finally, as far as ADSL is concerned, I feel the best bet is to buy a modem + router separately. Either there is WiFi issue or something else cropping up.

 

[indy1811]

Do you know what the gain in dbi of the stock rt-n66 antenna is ?

Even though you got decent signal power what ? 60-70dbm where you wanted it, yet it still wasn't enough to even stream youtube.


Can you measure data throughput over powerline and tell us what the transfer speed is like ?

See what you said in June


You were stuck and wanted a better option, you took a gamble and it worked. Was it a gamble or did you get a demo before buying ?

Have you made any changes to your house wiring since June ?

dining room and bedroom must be on the same circuit, it helps they are adjoining so you lose less signal. So long as one can confirm both rooms are on the same circuit, i think we can reduce the gamble here. Lets say you attached the adapter in the room where your tv was and did not use wifi at all. What would the powerline signal be like over there. Want to test and let us know ? is living room on the same circuit as well. You mentioned earlier everything was on the same circuit so i guess you could use those adapters any where in your house and the only limitation would be the distance the signal had to cover before geting too attenuated to be useful.

Trying to find ways to give a convincing argument to anybody whether powerline will work or not.

rt-n66u in your dining room means just one wall away from your tv. Its also more centrally located so you should get good wifi all over the house now. The signal crosses at max only 2 walls to anywhere in the house.


It means the DLNA server port is getting blocked somewhere and cannot reach the clients. Why would that happen ? you just moved the asus one step after the powerline. powerline is like a cable. Does it have a built in firewall ?

To answer your questions:

1. Yup, wifi analyzer on my phone used to show the signal varying between 60-70dbm. No idea why but the moment i loaded anything bandwidth heavy like youtube etc. the connection strength used to drop.

2. Any reliable way of measuring the throughput? All i know is to copy files from one machine to the other. Any simple tools i can use to measure it?

3. Nope, didn't take a demo. Couldn't actually since none of the computer shops near my place had even heard of powerline. Moreover the models available in India are way too expensive.

4. Yes, the entire wiring was redone so that we could get a UPS installed.

5. Will test over the weekend and let you know what speed i get when i directly connect the powerline adapter in the hall.

6. Yup, the RT-N66u is now more centrally located. I do get better signal throughout my house except in a couple of places. Still a tad disappointed by the router's performance though. Picked it up after reading a lot of reviews where people went on and on about the range. That has not been the case with me.

7. Is the DLNA not working because the computer where the files are hosted isn't connected to the router directly? i.e. the computer is connected to a dsl modem which is then connected to a powerline adapter. The other powerline adapter then connects to the router.

 

[vivek.krishnan]

To answer your questions:

1. Yup, wifi analyzer on my phone used to show the signal varying between 60-70dbm. No idea why but the moment i loaded anything bandwidth heavy like youtube etc. the connection strength used to drop.

2. Any reliable way of measuring the throughput? All i know is to copy files from one machine to the other. Any simple tools i can use to measure it?

3. Nope, didn't take a demo. Couldn't actually since none of the computer shops near my place had even heard of powerline. Moreover the models available in India are way too expensive.

4. Yes, the entire wiring was redone so that we could get a UPS installed.

5. Will test over the weekend and let you know what speed i get when i directly connect the powerline adapter in the hall.

6. Yup, the RT-N66u is now more centrally located. I do get better signal throughout my house except in a couple of places. Still a tad disappointed by the router's performance though. Picked it up after reading a lot of reviews where people went on and on about the range. That has not been the case with me.

7. Is the DLNA not working because the computer where the files are hosted isn't connected to the router directly? i.e. the computer is connected to a dsl modem which is then connected to a powerline adapter. The other powerline adapter then connects to the router.

1. Not exactly sure.

2. Nope. Even if there is an app - it will do the same. What you see is the exact speeds you will get.

6. Always try to centralize the WiFi APs

7. You will need to run a DLNA server on the computer.

 

[indy1811]

1. Not exactly sure.

2. Nope. Even if there is an app - it will do the same. What you see is the exact speeds you will get.

6. Always try to centralize the WiFi APs

7. You will need to run a DLNA server on the computer.

I'm running a DLNA server on the computer. I have a Panasonic TV in the bedroom where the D-link modem/router is kept. I've connected to it wirelessly. I can see and browse the contents of my PC on the TV. I've even streamed a 10GB rip without any lag whatsoever using XBMC.

The same DLNA server doesn't show up on any device connected to the Asus router. Might have to check to see if the firewall is enabled on the Asus router.

 

[vivek.krishnan]

I'm running a DLNA server on the computer. I have a Panasonic TV in the bedroom where the D-link modem/router is kept. I've connected to it wirelessly. I can see and browse the contents of my PC on the TV. I've even streamed a 10GB rip without any lag whatsoever using XBMC.

The same DLNA server doesn't show up on any device connected to the Asus router. Might have to check to see if the firewall is enabled on the Asus router.

Could you tell if the ASUS is in AP mode or not? Or just give the IP addresses of the devices connected to the ASUS router and those to the DSL router.

I think you have done double NATing.

 

[blr_p]

To answer your questions:

1. Yup, wifi analyzer on my phone used to show the signal varying between 60-70dbm. No idea why but the moment i loaded anything bandwidth heavy like youtube etc. the connection strength used to drop.

2. Any reliable way of measuring the throughput? All i know is to copy files from one machine to the other. Any simple tools i can use to measure it?

3. Nope, didn't take a demo. Couldn't actually since none of the computer shops near my place had even heard of powerline. Moreover the models available in India are way too expensive.

4. Yes, the entire wiring was redone so that we could get a UPS installed.

5. Will test over the weekend and let you know what speed i get when i directly connect the powerline adapter in the hall.

6. Yup, the RT-N66u is now more centrally located. I do get better signal throughout my house except in a couple of places. Still a tad disappointed by the router's performance though. Picked it up after reading a lot of reviews where people went on and on about the range. That has not been the case with me.

7. Is the DLNA not working because the computer where the files are hosted isn't connected to the router directly? i.e. the computer is connected to a dsl modem which is then connected to a powerline adapter. The other powerline adapter then connects to the router.

1. wanted to know about the gain of the stock antennas on your rt-n66u. This thread indicates its 3.5dBi. You said that you got an external antenna that was 9dbi, did you just get one or three. Your router uses 3 antennas, one transmit and the other two for receive. Using one antenna to boost transmit won't help as the clients will hear the router but the router will not hear their reply.

That you got a 60-70dbm reading means the s4 you used to test got those signals got good reception, the tv or ps3 were not receiving the same signal. So could you stream youtube on the s4 or htc one ? i figure you could.

But suspect the ps3 & tv are only good if the router is in the same room or at most one wall away. Their antennas are just too small and there is no way to boost reception. This is why i suggested a bridge. As I wasn't confident a router alone no matter how powerful would be sufficient to get a useful signal to the ps3 or tv. That you had to augment with powerline confirms this doubt.

2. if you have a windows laptop, just connect it at the end of the powerline and do a few file copies and see what the avg speed is like. SMB windows to windows should be ok. file transfer between different OS is better with FTP as the SMB implementation isn't always the best on non-windows platforms.

3. so what convinced you to try powerline. What reasons could you offer to others in your situation to spring for powerline. The difficulty with wifi is everybody's house is different. With powerline its harder still as people have no clue what wiring even runs in their homes.

4. Can you give more details as to what was redone. What was the original setup and what was the difference with the redone setup. The difficulty with powerline is it requires people to have knowledge of the electrical wiring PLUS networking. That's a rare skill set combo to have, people either know one or the other.

5. this wil give you an idea as to attenuation of the signal over powerline vs distance.

6. the marketing is always very good, people then parrot it without even trying to understand the house it will be used in. I was in croma the other day and they had a router up on the ceiling and the phones section was situated at least 30 feet away, i noticed some of the mobiles, samsungs had a 3-4 bar signal. In an open space the signal can travel quite far, once walls spring up in between things change. Just because you get a good signal does not mean you can do much with it. Its good to have but the real test is a throughput test.

7. no, the way you have it should work, i was wondering whether the adapters might have a built in firewall in them that is preventing the dlna signal from getting through. If dlna works without powerline then its confirmed as working. Its when you add the powerline that the signal gets lost for some reason.

 

[indy1811]

1. Dumbass me got only one. Was wondering why my signal strength remained the same. Will have to sell it now. Never tried streaming Youtube on the mobile. Figured wifi analyzer would be accurate.

2. File copy speed varies between 2.9 - 3.5 MB i.e. around 24Mbps - 28Mbps. This is in the dining room.

3. A simple way to test whether powerline would work for you is to see if the power goes off in the places where you want to connect the adapters when you flip the trip switch. In my case, that was one of the prerequisites for installing the UPS.

4. All devices which require higher amounts of power like the Fridge, Microwave, Geyser, AC were moved to a different loop. All the regular devices were connected to a single loop.

5. Yup, the signal strength drops in the hall. I get around 0.8 - 1.2 Mbps i.e. around 6.5Mbps - 9Mbps.

6. Read a lot of user reviews, checked snb forums, etc. Looks like it is a technology limitation. Higher range would mean more amount of radiation which would be considered unsafe over longer periods of time.

7. Got it to work. Thanks, @vivek.krishnan for the tip.

 

[blr_p]

Good, i think we can now begin to understand powerline based on what you've said

2. File copy speed varies between 2.9 - 3.5 MB i.e. around 24Mbps - 28Mbps. This is in the dining room.

5. Yup, the signal strength drops in the hall. I get around 0.8 - 1.2 MB i.e. around 6.5Mbps - 9Mbps.

Distance from your your room to the dining room is around 35 feet.
Distance from your room to the hall with the tv/ps3 is around 55 feet.

The speed drops by two thirds. So wiring must be more than twice as long. Or the hall and your bedroom are not on the same branch circuit ?

At 35feet, the powerline performance is slightly better or as good as N150 in router performance. That is with the tp-link homenet 200 model you have. There are homenet 500 models but those cost twice and speed will not necessarily be double. Homenet 500 isn't readily available in the market yet and will only work with the same model, cannot interchange with other brands.

3. A simple way to test whether powerline would work for you is to see if the power goes off in the places where you want to connect the adapters when you flip the trip switch. In my case, that was one of the prerequisites for installing the UPS.

4. All devices which require higher amounts of power like the Fridge, Microwave, Geyser, AC were moved to a different loop. All the regular devices were connected to a single loop.

Connecting rooms up ideally requires them to be on the same branch circuit. Pulling fuses at the fuse box will confirm this. Otherwise expect to lose 2/3 of the throughput.

a 3 phase electricty setup is ideal. This is the norm with new houses nowadays. In Bangalore, once you have a 5kVA sanctioned load, then its automatically 3 phase. Then you have to isolate all potential noise generators onto a different circuit. Noise generator means anything with a motor. I guess ceiling fans are an exception here.

Older homes with non 3-phase can work so long as heating & lighting can be seperated. The wiring will have to be re-organised to isolate the noise generators. A electrician is required to audit the present state of wiring in the home before considering powerline.

A bigger home could augment wifi coverage this way but forget streaming full HD, HD is the max with current powerline tech.

 

[indy1811]

The dining room and the hall are on the same circuit.

Yup, didn't want to spend too much since i wasn't sure if the technology would work for me or not. Now that it does, i'm eyeing a couple of Homeplug AV2 adapters which cost around $120. Might pick them up if it drops to around $90. From whatever little i've read the newer ones come with noise filters so the noise generators shouldn't be a problem. Also, according to SNB's tests, the newer ones don't drop speeds as drastically as the older ones. In fact the difference in speeds between locations which were quite far was nominal.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanw...64-homeplug-av2-head-to-head?showall=&start=2

 

[blr_p]

Let's look at a couple of the AV models he has, and compare with your performance.

His locations C is ~25 feet. Location E is ~55 feet. The trendnet kinda gives similar results up to to your dining room but does not drop even at his location E whereas you said it was a third as fast where your tv was. Something must be in the way. I take it you have connected the adapters with power strips that don't have any spike busters or any sort of power conditioning. Going on his results i think you should be getting better in the hall than what you're seeing presently with the tp-links.

Now, if we consider AV-2 vs the trendnet AV at location C & E. It's a tripling of throughput, so you could expect ~90Mbs dropping to ~60Mbs. This will remove the need for wifi to your hall because you will never get those speeds with wifi.

In your link above the linksys av-2 model is a third faster than the belkin at location C and twice as fast at location E.

 

[indy1811]

Great, will start looking for a black friday deal on one of the AV2 homeplugs. Thanks @blr_p

 

[blr_p]

No, you have to figure out why the speed is so low (two thirds less) in the hall.

Otherwise with the new AV-2 you will get 80-90Mbs in the dining area but only 20-30 Mbs in the tv area. This is slightly better if not the same as you get there already with your present wifi setup. You want the connection in the hall so there has to be at least a two fold improvement to be worth it.

I wonder whether a third adapter might boost the speed up some. Not sure how this would work though.

 

[indy1811]

No, you have to figure out why the speed is so low (two thirds less) in the hall.

Otherwise with the new AV-2 you will get 80-90Mbs in the dining area but only 20-30 Mbs in the tv area. This is slightly better if not the same as you get there already with your present wifi setup. You want the connection in the hall so there has to be at least a two fold improvement to be worth it.

I wonder whether a third adapter might boost the speed up some. Not sure how this would work though.

According to the charts on SNB, the throughput rate doesn't drop by much in location E when compared to location C. I'm guessing the same should apply in my case where the dining room would be location C and the hall would be location E, shouldn't it?

 

[blr_p]

According to the charts on SNB, the throughput rate doesn't drop by much in location E when compared to location C. I'm guessing the same should apply in my case where the dining room would be location C and the hall would be location E, shouldn't it?

Correct

I was expecting a drop with distance but not to the extent you have.

Unfortunately Tim did not review your tp-link model. Its possible that it does not do very well at that range. Whereas the ones he reviewed do better. It's hard to tell in your case until you do some more testing. Is your tp-link powerline adapter the problem or is there something else getting in the way.

So, can you try the adapter in other places in your house where the distance is somewhere between 35 and 55 feet. And measure whether the throughput drop is as steep. A third less (16 - 20Mbs) than what you get in the dining room (24-28 Mbs) at a further distance is acceptable but two thirds (6-10Mbs) is excessive. Now if you get a linear drop as distance increases and you cannot see anything getting in the way then it would seem the tp-link cannot maintain throughput at distances further than your dining room. This would be very useful to know for those considering this model and have a similar distance to cover.

 

[indy1811]

Correct

I was expecting a drop with distance but not to the extent you have.

Unfortunately Tim did not review your tp-link model. Its possible that it does not do very well at that range. Whereas the ones he reviewed do better. It's hard to tell in your case until you do some more testing. Is your tp-link powerline adapter the problem or is there something else getting in the way.

So, can you try the adapter in other places in your house where the distance is somewhere between 35 and 55 feet. And measure whether the throughput drop is as steep. A third less (16 - 20Mbs) than what you get in the dining room (24-28 Mbs) at a further distance is acceptable but two thirds (6-10Mbs) is excessive. Now if you get a linear drop as distance increases and you cannot see anything getting in the way then it would seem the tp-link cannot maintain throughput at distances further than your dining room. This would be very useful to know for those considering this model and have a similar distance to cover.

Sure, will test it out tonight and post back. Also, remember this was the cheapest powerline adapters i could find. Even a few of the reviews i'd read said that it averages around 30Mbps at moderate distances and drops quite a bit at longer distances.