You also learned that Xcode 16's best feature, Predictive Code Completion, requires an Apple silicon Mac with at least 16GB of unified memory.
desiibond
Keymaster
Though Apple release OS updates for phones for 7 years, their updates for Macs is rather average at best now. This is for last year's Sonoma:where did you get this from?
Historically they have continued security updates for 10 years at a min - although of course nothing prevents you from using it after 10 years either
Personally, I think it would be rare for tech oriented users to keep a laptop for anything beyond 4-5 years and I think my M1 is probably the first laptop for me ever that will cross the 5 year mark and will probably remain in active duty for a few more years after that
In all honesty, its the most paisa vasool laptop i ever got in over 2 decades
- iMac (2019 and later)
- iMac Pro (2017)
- MacBook Air (2018 and later)
- MacBook Pro (2018 and later)
- Mac Mini (2018 and later)
- Mac Pro (2019 and later)
- Mac Studio (all models)
One thing has to be commended though. How long these bloody things last. My 2012 Mac mini and my office's 2018 MBP are still working.
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Are you being serious right now?
Go here and check, the 14" Macbook pro with M3 costs ₹1,70,000 and comes with 8 GB RAM
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desiibond
Keymaster
You forgot the truly hideous and pathetic M2 MacBook Pro.
And it offers nothing that M3 air offers. MBPs that come with non-pro M chips are waste of sand.Are you being serious right now?
Go here and check, the 14" Macbook pro with M3 costs ₹1,70,000 and comes with 8 GB RAM
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Discover the MacBook Pro laptop with the M4 family of chips, built for Apple Intelligence. Get credit when you trade in an eligible Mac. Buy now.www.apple.com
Party Monger
Juggernaut
Comparing with cheap windows laptops, what people forget is the whole laptop costs as much as what Apple charges for 8gb to 16gb ram upgrade (around 20k).
Secondly they can be easily upgraded to top ram specs for 3-5k lol
Problem is not that Apple is still selling these 8gb ram machines. Problem is the cost of these machines and plus the cost of upgrading these machines to 16gb. And the fact that it cant be dont post purchase.
Secondly they can be easily upgraded to top ram specs for 3-5k lol
Problem is not that Apple is still selling these 8gb ram machines. Problem is the cost of these machines and plus the cost of upgrading these machines to 16gb. And the fact that it cant be dont post purchase.
desiibond
Keymaster
Bloody f**k
M2 (all variants except max) TOPS: 15.8 TOPS
A15 Bionic(in iPhone 13 and 14) : 15.8 TOPS
A16 Biomic (in iPhone 15) : 17 TOPS, has 6GB of memory.
A17 Pro (in iPhone 15 pro max): 35 TOPS, 8GB memory.
So, 8GB memory in phone is okay, 15.8TOPS in laptop is okay. But 8GB in laptop is not okay, 15.8TOPS in phone is not okay.
Buggers want to sell more and more iPhones this year. Less computing power my ass!!!!!
M2 (all variants except max) TOPS: 15.8 TOPS
A15 Bionic(in iPhone 13 and 14) : 15.8 TOPS
A16 Biomic (in iPhone 15) : 17 TOPS, has 6GB of memory.
A17 Pro (in iPhone 15 pro max): 35 TOPS, 8GB memory.
So, 8GB memory in phone is okay, 15.8TOPS in laptop is okay. But 8GB in laptop is not okay, 15.8TOPS in phone is not okay.
Buggers want to sell more and more iPhones this year. Less computing power my ass!!!!!
nullpc
Forerunner
I mean sure 8GB is terrible for current standards and sure, Apple charges excessively for upgrades but lets not imply that a 20k laptop comes anywhere near the baseline MacBook. Even if you upgrade that thing with all the money, it still won’t come anywhere close right now especially for a “laptop”.
The “Oops, we need LLMs in our products” moment.
superczar
Keymaster
You answered your own question there - The reason why the support is shorter for the older models is because of the once in a gen change from x64 -> ARM (like the PPC- > x32 change)
More importantly , the security updates are still available for 10 years
Also these cycles have beome shorter across the board.
E.g. When win 11 was released, the minm requirement was for Intel 8th gen which was maybe 3 years old a time of Win 11 release..
And that was not even a generational change... At the same time, nothing prevents a 6th gen Intel PC user from using win 10 with security updates
desiibond
Keymaster
Then why is MacBook Pro 2018 supported? Or the Mac mini 2018? Or the iMac 2019? If it is about ARM transition, these are Intel powered Macs.
nullpc
Forerunner
My guess is there's still a sufficiently large amount of normal and business users still hoarding these. Plus IDK if there's anything about false promises Apple must've given. Either way, can't just drop 'em all in one go. I do think it's in Apple's interests to get away from Intel ASAP and they'll keep at it. Last to go would be the Mac Pro (cheesegrate) I guess.
superczar
Keymaster
You make it sound like a bad thing,
Despite the ARM transition , they continue supporting the entirely different code base
Now contrast this with Windows which set the threshold for win 11 in 2021 for a set of models no older than 2-3 years despite having the same architecture. Didn't hear much complaining about that around here though
I am sure you will also acknowledge and understand that supporting Sonoma for ARM and x64 together means maintainng two completely different code bases. Also bear in mind that their newer ARM chips were vastly more capable than the pre 2020 Intel units. At some point, you will need to draw a line else your feature-sets will take a beating.
Again, don't forget that the older machines from say 2017 running Ventura will continue to get security updates.
desiibond
Keymaster
I am just saying that MacOS updates are not as good as they used to be.You make it sound like a bad thing,
Despite the ARM transition , they continue supporting the entirely different code base
Now contrast this with Windows which set the threshold for win 11 in 2021 for a set of models no older than 2-3 years despite having the same architecture. Didn't hear much complaining about that around here though
Don’t compare with windows updates. This was the first time ever since release of Windows that MS mandated specific hardware requirement. And they are still receiving lot of flak and Windows 11 is still people’s favourite punching bag though it is in good shape now.
Not going to side track this thread. I am deep into Apple ecosystem and I have been using Apple hardware for a long time. It is very clear that Apple is sliding down a very dangerous path, forcing people to upgrade their Macs and iPhone for sake of sales.
you also forgot that the base 13'' MBP is nothing more than a glorified Air lol and costs more.
because it is, and thats something they should bear the cost of, this is just one of the migration pains that happens when you go through as big of a shift in the ecosystem that Apple did, god knows they charge more than enough that this kind of support should come by default.
tell that to windows, where win 11 still works on my shitty 40k dell from 2012, also its not just Sonoma or Ventura, you can go further back on Intel chips where Apple happily dropped support after 5-6 years.Now contrast this with Windows which set the threshold for win 11 in 2021 for a set of models no older than 2-3 years despite having the same architecture. Didn't hear much complaining about that around here though
I am sure you will also acknowledge and understand that supporting Sonoma for ARM and x64 together means maintainng two completely different code bases. Also bear in mind that their newer ARM chips were vastly more capable than the pre 2020 Intel units. At some point, you will need to draw a line else your feature-sets will take a beating.
and? its not a mobile phone, there shouldn't be any stoppage of OS updates for as much as possible unless you want to run on decades old hardware, thats just a bad faith argument,
Ah, so it must be mine that leans into swap so heavily but granted its my work Mac where I run our dev setupNow you are going into Internet hearsay - And i will get into a personal anecdote here
This theory of swaps killing SSDs on the M series was in heavy circulation circa 2020-21 -
As with all new Apple launch gates, this was termed SSD gate
again, "Security Updates" mean bullshit, Microsoft might "officially" only offer 10 years of updates on Win 10, but keep in mind, untill 2022-23, feature parity was there between 10 & 11 and you can always upgrade windows by manual installation
thats just your opinion, I can be called a "tech guy" by any reasonable metric, and I still have laptops from 2010 running even now
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Party Monger
Juggernaut
Yes it doesnt match performance, but it does basic tasks really well. Like 80% of what you'd do on a mac. It was a rhetorical point.
YeAhx
Forerunner
They are really giving a challenge to internet explorer in being late huh. Even with their well known good optimisation for their apps and softwares, no way 8 GB of RAM was enough even in 2020. Mind you these chips cost them penny on a dollar to say so yet they charge insane money for separate upgrades. Knowing them newer laptops will definitely see a price hike.
Party Monger
Juggernaut
Yes its not about what it costs them. Its about forcing people who understand tech to upgrade at exhorbitant prices. like 20k for 8gb more ram. Also forcing them to use APPLE website and buy at MRP rather than discounted retailer models. And the price difference for 8gb more ram becomes around 40-50k.
This would also be fine, but then they are forcing a shitty experience on people who dont understand tech and hence losing market share. Which is why while profits are increasing, their sales are decreasing alarmingly. Cause honestly few people have 1L+ budget in India.
animishticomb
Forerunner
+ the people who buy it will have to praise apple for the favor of selling them 8gb ram through extortion... But man they spent 50k on a 3-4k ram but thank god for a company like apple who willingly allowed them to buy the world's sorry universes best 8gb ram ever made... With unstateable benefits which cannot be comprehended or measured by human technology yet..
Jai apple bhagwaan
Heisen
Herald
The real ram upgrade cost from 8gb to 16gb in the silicon is probably 10 dollars , but they are asking a lot of money for it. For people who think this is a lot of money and it should only cost 3k to 4k (novice or enthusiast), what choice do these people have? Just because on a mac a 16gb ram upgrade cost 20k, should they switch to an inferior OS like windows where ram/storage upgrades are cheap?
This is the choice they are left with. There is nothing in the market that matches the apple experience, so apple can ask whatever they want for it. It's their business and that's how a business works. For little bit of gain from the base model, they start charging a lot of money, because they know, customer has no choice.
The reason why there is still a 8GB variant, is because it is still the norm. Majority of the people on this planet who's only source of income is from work which they do on a laptop and also feed their family, that laptop has 8GB ram. Think about the number of jobs which require a laptop and 8GB ram is sufficient for the job. The number is still very high. The day this changes you will see 16GB ram from the base, which I think is very close now, but still feels far.
This is the choice they are left with. There is nothing in the market that matches the apple experience, so apple can ask whatever they want for it. It's their business and that's how a business works. For little bit of gain from the base model, they start charging a lot of money, because they know, customer has no choice.
The reason why there is still a 8GB variant, is because it is still the norm. Majority of the people on this planet who's only source of income is from work which they do on a laptop and also feed their family, that laptop has 8GB ram. Think about the number of jobs which require a laptop and 8GB ram is sufficient for the job. The number is still very high. The day this changes you will see 16GB ram from the base, which I think is very close now, but still feels far.
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YeAhx
Forerunner
Apple's unified memory is slightly more expensive than normal RAM. I heard 1GB RAM costs like 1-1.5$ for the manufacturer so even if we assume apple's unified memory is 3x more expensive it will still be dirt cheap for them.