Even Apple finally admits that 8GB RAM isn't enough

[rootyme]

It's not about the amount of RAM, it's what they are charging for that amount of RAM.

At this point, everybody has accepted it as a fact of the Apple ecosystem. That you pay that extra premium to have that Apple logo stamped on your products. To their credit, the products do come with a degree of guaranteed reliability which is not really dime a dozen.

I am not going to pay for this but people who are purchasing Apple stuff already know that they are willingly making their wallets lighter.

My hot take: People like that should not be buying computer worth nearly 1lakh or above for tasks like these.

This usecase accounts for the lion's share unless I am out of the loop. People like to have a feeling of privilege and the Apple logo certainly ticks that box. They are going to shell out 4x the money than they actually need to spend. And it's not just about Apple. It could be any premium product from any well known brand.

 

[ashish]

Apple bhakts - It was not required till yesterday. Only from today when apple said world has changed.

Before this - Only bad systems need more than 8gb

Opps..dont offend apple bhakts here..they will rant and start fire which even a fire brigade cannot douse easily.

Apple is almost monster like in its 16gb decision. They arent just fcuking their customers, they also screw their auth sellers as readymade models dont have 16gb skus with macbook airs.
So even they have to order online for clients and arent willing to sell it.
Then Apple also gets to charge 20k more for 8gb ram and nearly 40k for 16gb lol. Which is insane cause you can get ful flegded windows laptop in the price of that ram upgrade. lol

But for bhakts everything below apple is just a mapple..they dont give a F. They will even pay a 2ac premium for a 32gb upgrade.

The people over at /r/apple are just stupid tbh.

Kids bolo.

My hot take: People like that should not be buying computer worth nearly 1lakh or above for tasks like these.

People but NA for apple people.

 

[Heisen]

My hot take: People like that should not be buying computer worth nearly 1lakh or above for tasks like these.

Actually they should, because it's quality over quantity, they get complete package. Compare the current 69k M1 macbook air to any 69k other laptop even with 16GB Ram, it will be inferior in many basic things. Speakers, webcam, microphones, display, great overall build, top half that doesn't flex when you open the screen from any corner, stuff like these matter a lot, not to mention the battery life which everyone knows. Now this is just hardware stuff, there a many things in software.

But for bhakts everything below apple is just a mapple..they dont give a F. They will even pay a 2ac premium for a 32gb upgrade.

Law of diminishing returns applies everywhere, apple line has some killer products in the budget segment. Of course as you go up, the value for money aspect come into play just like any other premium brand. Apple haters usually pick the extreme end to justify their statement. No normal person like you and me is buying that apple pro stand for 95k. It is just there for rich people, the brand value is so high so that they have to make stuff like that to intentionally attract rich people. You got to have some luxury stuff in your portfolio if your company is at the top. Not every customer is a value for money customer and that is fine.

The famous statement that apple products sells because of the logo or status symbol is bogus to me, but even if that is true, people have to realize that brand hype is not easy to make, you have to have something in order to appear at the top, if your capability is 75% you can fake it to make it appear as 95%, but if you are just at 25% in real you can't make yourself appear 95%, people will catch that.

What made the brand famous is guts to do the out of the box things/vision. I am sure some will state that, that particular out of the box thing has been there on android/PC for many years. Yes some of those are true, but not all.

Perhaps majority of people are buying their products for the logo (I feel even then they are getting the right product unknowingly, because if it was that bad, then they won't be buying it again and again) but certainly not every single one care about the logo, they have some purposes and requirements for which the apple seems right.

 

[superczar]

This never gets old…
yet Another day on te, yet another apple bashing thread

Are base macbooks meant for users who intend to compile code - No, so I don’t get what the thread is about to begin with
Does Apple overcharge for RAM upgrades - Yes, But The question is how are they able to get away with it?

 

[altair21]

This never gets old…
yet Another day on te, yet another apple bashing thread

Are base macbooks meant for users who intend to compile code - No, so I don’t get what the thread is about to begin with
Does Apple overcharge for RAM upgrades - Yes, But The question is how are they able to get away with it?

because peeps wont stop paying for it : P, simple answer, stop paying for bullshit, OEMs will stop shoving bullshit down our throats

 

[desiibond]

ROFLMAO. Where are those '8GB is enough' gang members. I remember having a heated discussion with some of them here on TE!! When I said that we will very soon end up with 16GB as minimum even on a Mac, they were like 'no way'. I hope they are happy with their 8GB Macs.

Then there are these buffoons who does not even look at the price tag and do not realise that memory can be upgraded on those Windows laptops. Idiots are a shame and they make all Mac users look bad!!!

Are base macbooks meant for users who intend to compile code - No, so I don’t get what the thread is about to begin with

The next iterations of macOS is going to be AI heavy with lot more memory utilisation to an extent that none of the features that 'can help' even a normal user will never be available on base Macs. I think the 8GB Macs are going to reach end of the road and will be in same bucket as those Intel Macs. Plummeting resale value, expensive paper weights.

There is a simple thumb rule for buying a PC : Do not buy one that fits exactly to needs today. Buy one that is tad more powerful than what you need today. I was bloody tempted to buy the 8GB Air that was available for 60k. Glad that I went with a proper MBP (M2 Pro). Don't have to worry for another few years at least.

 

[manohar5321]

I do agree with the fact that apple products are reliable or were reliable, I have a macbook air from 2013 , still works like a charm and battery life is decent , I had never heard of such a feat from windows laptops.
Am not an apple fanboy and use windows as my daily driver but just that apple did deliver good quality even if it was expensive.
The same cannot be said about the ipod nano or the iPads of older generation , the ipods are impossible for battery replacement these days and the iPad has become unusable due to their shitty and heavy software.

 

[superczar]

because peeps wont stop paying for it : P, simple answer, stop paying for bullshit, OEMs will stop shoving bullshit down our throats

Thats a great point - presuming the units are indeed BS
yet I (and many others) still consider my OG M1 8GB air purchase from 2020 as the best impressive and VFM laptop I have ever purchased.

Would i have preferred that it came with 16, ofc
Would i have preferred it had an upgradeable RAM slot or a 2280, hell even 2230 slot- Hell yes
Is apple being an ass’ol by not provisioning these - yup

Yet that doesn’t change the fact that the base 8GB models of the MBA have been some of the best laptops ever made and far far away from being bullshit.

 

[animishticomb]

Yet that doesn’t change the fact

It changes the fact for many, maybe not for you. I for one, dont want to keep sticking with a company that shortchanges me every time it gets a chance to grab more money....

Today this, tomorrow what else, only time will tell.

 

[desiibond]

Thats a great point - presuming the units are indeed BS
yet I (and many others) still consider my OG M1 8GB air purchase from 2020 as the best impressive and VFM laptop I have ever purchased.

Would i have preferred that it came with 16, ofc
Would i have preferred it had an upgradeable RAM slot or a 2280, hell even 2230 slot- Hell yes
Is apple being an ass’ol by not provisioning these - yup

Yet that doesn’t change the fact that the base 8GB models of the MBA have been some of the best laptops ever made and far far away from being bullshit.

The problem with 'minimum' specced laptops is that you never know when they become obsolete. You were lucky that you had many years with that. Think about those who got it last week for development. People buy Macs for their insane long life (>5 years). They are now staring at obsolescence within a year or two. Things are only going to get worse going forward, as the OS gets heavier (AI services running in the background). I will not be surprised if next iteration of MacOS is limited to those with 16GB of memory. I am furious because Apple knew all along that within a year, 8GB will not be enough. Yet to continued with 8GB bare spec. Also, it's not like these are sold at throwaway prices. 1200$ for 8GB base spec is ridiculous.

Another example is how suddenly even the iPhone 15 is not eligible for AI features because it has 2GB less memory. That is peanuts for Apple (to put 8GB on a phone) yet they did this. I am not going to believe that the A16 cannot do AI tasks, especially given that Apple already has their private cloud setup to take up tasks that cannot be done on-phone.

This is what happens when pure 'sales guy' runs a tech company. They are setting really dangerous precedent : "If you do not buy our top of the line products, you will end up with stale product in hand in a year or two."

 

[superczar]

The problem with 'minimum' specced laptops is that you never know when they become obsolete. You were lucky that you had many years with that. Think about those who got it last week for development. P

But isnt that user error?
There are plenty of windows laptops today (fairly expensive at that) that come with non upgradeable 8GB RAM.

No sensible user e.g. would get a 8GB surface pro (more expensive than M1) as a development machine or extensive 4k editing
That does not make MS a peddler of BS nor renders the surface pro a BS machine, no?

On a side note, I have not seen anyone say that Apple should sell 8GB SKUs nor have i ever seen anyone justify their nonsense +8GB upgrade pricing.
The argument instead is that better memory optimization vs windows results in 8GB on Mac OS being sufficient and more for everyday tasks - This coupled with the other major pluses makes some (not all) of the 8GB SKUs an excellent buy (for the right audience)

The counter argument however always (including this thread) pivots around the incorrect derivation that said Mac users are praising the absence of upgradeable slots or the bad pricing

It changes the fact for many, maybe not for you. I for one, dont want to keep sticking with a company that shortchanges me every time it gets a chance to grab more money....

Today this, tomorrow what else, only time will tell.

There is not a single firm that won't do this - Name one that you think offers you genuine VFM with minimal shortchanging on their key product lines
It's their business to try obtain the maximum margin

 

[roadrash99]

Hopefully this means that the new macs will start with 16GB RAM as base!

They will market AI as some sort of "Pro" feature only for high end users, and people will mostly agree. No way they stop making the extra 30$ by saving 8gb RAM. Just like high refresh rate is a "Pro" feature on their phones. Apple users are a effectively a captive market that cannot go anywhere. It would be incredibly stupid of Apple to not to squeeze every last penny off of that. As long as the PC/Android space isn't offering anything radically superior (which let's be honest isn't happening), they have nothing to worry about.

 

[animishticomb]

I am furious because Apple knew all along that within a year, 8GB will not be enough. Yet to continued with 8GB bare spec

I wont be surprised if they continue selling 8gb even now, why are you surprised they sold it before the announcement...for the longest time they robbed users with cheap cables just so they could sell more cables at overpriced rates...this is how cheap they are when it comes to their earnings....they are not cheap while setting the Selling price but cheap whenever something is going from their pocket

 

[desiibond]

But isnt that user error?
There are plenty of windows laptops today (fairly expensive at that) that come with non upgradeable 8GB RAM.

Not really user error. They are pushed to a corner. When it comes to Apple, it's always the previous gen products that are most VFM. See the m2 Air for example. It costs 90k without offers and it costs 5k-10k less during sale. This one comes with 8GB memory and 256GB storage. Anything above base spec is called 'custom variant' and are rarely on sale. The price gap is too much. I have not even touched upon the SSD storage size. 16GB and 512GB is bare minimum now and that costs 40k-50k more (and is very hard to find on Amazon etc). As a result, users contend with the base specced model. Moreover, it goes really close to the MacBook Pro that has 16GB memory. Now, I have a dilemma. Should spend more for MBP or should I go with this Air. This is how Apple is minting money. By making people pay more and more and more.

 

[superczar]

Not really user error. They are pushed to a corner. When it comes to Apple, it's always the previous gen products that are most VFM.

I was talking more about a person buying a surface pro with 8GB in the presumption it will suffice for extensive code compilation - that is user error the same way as a social media influencer buying a 8 gb m1 in the presumption it wil be enough for extensive video edits

In any case, the point I am trying to make is that premium laptops do cost disproportionately higher than a simply high spec model
(Part of the reason is that in gadgets (as well as elsewhere), the BOM for the materials and other parts is often more than the actual electronics.)

The only catch is that on the windows side of things, there are plenty of OEMs - so for every 100K premium surface pro, you will find a 100K alternate Acer that cuts corners on build/screen/ trackpad etc but offers 32GB of RAM and maybe even a decent dgpu.

So yes, unlike buying a mac where you have to stick to a preset menu, you can go quite à la carte when buying a win/linux machine - and before anyone misconstrues, I am calling this out as a good thing

However , Complaining about a 65K M1 8GB or 90 K M3 8GB is the same as the 100K Acer with dgpu buyer moaning about the bad screen or the 100K surface pro buyer complaining about the lack of a dgpu.

On a side note, I prefer Mac laptops because after going through God-knows-how-many premium windows laptops, I found MBA/MBP to offer substantially better UX for the same or lower price. YMMV based on your priorities

 

[desiibond]

Bhai, there are lot of options on PC side. Not so on Apple side.

 

[variablevector]

Imagine spending money on a mac with 8GB ram and then saying it should be enough for *most* basic tasks. I mean...I effin' hope it is man, you literally just bought that thing! If it didn't live up to the absolute bare minimum of web browsing and office tasks, that would just be sad lmfao.

But people buy $50,000 handbags so Apple users and their mental gymnastics to justify their purchases isn't even that unusual, or that egregious of an overspend in the grand scheme of things. But you do have to give it to Apple for the financial dominatrix-esque relationship they have with their customer base, and how they've managed to sell tech that works like a Veblen good.

 

[awestorr]

Veblen good.

The one thing i learned from this thread.

 

[altair21]

Thats a great point - presuming the units are indeed BS
yet I (and many others) still consider my OG M1 8GB air purchase from 2020 as the best impressive and VFM laptop I have ever purchased.

And this is fine, everyone's entitled to their preferences, we are not attacking people who bought the 8gb ram version, there can be many reasons for it, what we are instead doing is rightfully calling out Apple for their bullshit pricing for upgrades and cheaping out on something as essential and cheap as ram

But isnt that user error?
There are plenty of windows laptops today (fairly expensive at that) that come with non upgradeable 8GB RAM.

most of these do have a second slot where you can add in more ram as needed

I was talking more about a person buying a surface pro with 8GB in the presumption it will suffice for extensive code compilation - that is user error the same way as a social media influencer buying a 8 gb m1 in the presumption it wil be enough for extensive video edits

In any case, the point I am trying to make is that premium laptops do cost disproportionately higher than a simply high spec model
(Part of the reason is that in gadgets (as well as elsewhere), the BOM for the materials and other parts is often more than the actual electronics.)

you'll be surprised just how much it actually costs these companies to manufacture using these "premium" materials

The only catch is that on the windows side of things, there are plenty of OEMs - so for every 100K premium surface pro, you will find a 100K alternate Acer that cuts corners on build/screen/ trackpad etc but offers 32GB of RAM and maybe even a decent dgpu.

Nope, for every surface you have an XPS, Zenbook, Legion etc which can cater to your premium niche easily

On a side note, I have not seen anyone say that Apple should sell 8GB SKUs nor have i ever seen anyone justify their nonsense +8GB upgrade pricing.
The argument instead is that better memory optimization vs windows results in 8GB on Mac OS being sufficient and more for everyday tasks - This coupled with the other major pluses makes some (not all) of the 8GB SKUs an excellent buy (for the right audience)

this is where you are wrong, even if you devised a magic algorithm which will do all tasks in constant time (CS term), it wont change the fact you need atleast some base ram to run the program in the first place, and that base ram itself can fill up your entire 8 gigs sometimes if you run heavy enough programs.

btw, a major reason why Macs are so "seamless" in memory management is that they lean quite heavily onto the ssd and swap quite aggressively, and *phew* good luck maintaining the health of your SSD, specially since its soldered to the board

Also, one thing, you are quoting 65k price for a m1 air, but have you taken into consideration the fact that Apple's pretty notorious in dropping support for older models and that in a couple of years, the m1 platform itself might stop receiving any updates due to Apple deeming it as old? the pricing seems to be a bit disingenuous to me considering that decade old hardware on windows can still run the latest OS, we should take that into consideration as well if you want to stick to your 65k pricing

 

[superczar]

btw, a major reason why Macs are so "seamless" in memory management is that they lean quite heavily onto the ssd and swap quite aggressively, and *phew* good luck maintaining the health of your SSD, specially since its soldered to the board

Also, one thing, you are quoting 65k price for a m1 air, but have you taken into consideration the fact that Apple's pretty notorious in dropping support for older models and that in a couple of years, the m1 platform itself might stop receiving any updates due to Apple deeming it as old? the pricing seems to be a bit disingenuous to me considering that decade old hardware on windows can still run the latest OS, we should take that into consideration as well if you want to stick to your 65k pricing

Now you are going into Internet hearsay - And i will get into a personal anecdote here
This theory of swaps killing SSDs on the M series was in heavy circulation circa 2020-21 -
As with all new Apple launch gates, this was termed SSD gate

I normally avoid buying into such hearsay but this one seemed concerning to me back then.
To the extent that I started logging my SSD TBW and health on a spreadsheet
Thankfully i got bored and stopped doing it after 2 weeks

4.5 years of heavy usage later, the disk smartctl shows 5% wear (My 6 month old m3 pro similarly shows 0% wear)
In other words, the disk will outlive me even if i continue to use it the same way

In fact there is a hundreds of pages long thread on this at Macrumors - which is probably the most mountain of a molehill thread on the entire site given the number of people it alarmed / the people who actually got impacted .

Also, one thing, you are quoting 65k price for a m1 air, but have you taken into consideration the fact that Apple's pretty notorious in dropping support for older models

where did you get this from?
Historically they have continued security updates for 10 years at a min - although of course nothing prevents you from using it after 10 years either
Personally, I think it would be rare for tech oriented users to keep a laptop for anything beyond 4-5 years and I think my M1 is probably the first laptop for me ever that will cross the 5 year mark and will probably remain in active duty for a few more years after that
In all honesty, its the most paisa vasool laptop i ever got in over 2 decades