Fast charging and battery life

Well battery degradation isn't that bad that one needs to change battery in 1.5 years if used fast charging.
I have a phone which I bought in Jan 2018. Has always been fast charged with the 18W charger it came with and almost always charged to the full 100% charge. When new, it gave me around 7hrs SoT. After all this use and supposed abuse, it still gives 5hrs SoT to my Mom after nearly 3 years. And this is when for the last year it was charged twice daily.
If I feel the need to get it's battery changed, from authorised service centre it is a paltry 650 bucks plus labor.
 
rdst_1 said:
Well battery degradation isn't that bad that one needs to change battery in 1.5 years if used fast charging.
I have a phone which I bought in Jan 2018. Has always been fast charged with the 18W charger it came with and almost always charged to the full 100% charge. When new, it gave me around 7hrs SoT. After all this use and supposed abuse, it still gives 5hrs SoT to my Mom after nearly 3 years. And this is when for the last year it was charged twice daily.
If I feel the need to get it's battery changed, from authorised service centre it is a paltry 650 bucks plus labor.
Click to expand...
I actually had no idea batteries can be changed now .
 
rdst_1 said:
Well battery degradation isn't that bad that one needs to change battery in 1.5 years if used fast charging.
I have a phone which I bought in Jan 2018. Has always been fast charged with the 18W charger it came with and almost always charged to the full 100% charge. When new, it gave me around 7hrs SoT. After all this use and supposed abuse, it still gives 5hrs SoT to my Mom after nearly 3 years. And this is when for the last year it was charged twice daily.
If I feel the need to get it's battery changed, from authorised service centre it is a paltry 650 bucks plus labor.
Click to expand...
Your anecdotal/personal experience notwithstanding, the scientific fact is that batteries will degrade faster with quick charging.

And i already mentioned, it's not the cost of the battery that's the issue here. I had 3 batteries for my xperia play because they were user replaceable. But my 5z actually needs the glue on the back panel heated and then removed and replaced before closing. I don't have much trust in these service centers to always do a good job.

So why always quick charge unless it's unavoidable?

Hey i have anecdotal stories too. My uncle killed his Kindle battery by using a 2A charger. When he asked me why it might have died, i pointed to the warning on the back. Since then he plugs it into his laptop to charge.

The 500mA charger for my Bluetooth earphone died and i now charge or only via USB. Even a 1A charger will kill it asap.
 
rdst_1 said:
Dude now you have gone on a completely different tangent altogether (which I don't have a problem with).
Every company has the right to develop proprietary tech. Yes it might not be everyone's cup of tea but every company would like to be independent in fields as essential as charging for their product.
FYI, even QC protocol is a Qualcomm proprietary technology.
Yes, a standard charging protocol would be great, especially when companies are now starting to remove chargers from the box, but cooperation among tech companies is not something which happens very easily.
Click to expand...
QC was more of a standard due to the prevelance of Snapdragon SoC. It is even supported on Mediatek chipsets if Qualcomm power management ICs are used. Lastly, it still works as a normal USB-PD charger even when QC is not supported. Even Apple with its obstinacy still supports USB-PD, so it can work with any QC charger.

Proprietary technologies like Warp and SuperVOOC are needlessly gimping their chargers on other devices and other chargers on their devices. I would prefer carrying a single, slim 15W or 18W charger when travelling and using it for all devices but I cannot due to artificial limitations of these proprietary technologies.

The talk of environmental impact will not figure prominently in most discussions, but using multiple chargers and replacing batteries prematurely is not a particularly practical approach, when it simply requires some discipline on the side of the user. But then we are in an overly consumerist society now, so "replace with money" arguments will seem to be the most logical.
 
t3chg33k said:
Proprietary technologies like Warp and SuperVOOC are needlessly gimping their chargers on other devices and other chargers on their devices. I would prefer carrying a single, slim 15W or 18W charger when travelling and using it for all devices but I cannot due to artificial limitations of these proprietary technologies.
Click to expand...

I had been using Rn7 pro over last 2 years, switched to realme x3 and my wife switched to realme x2 pro.

All of them I am able to fast charge with a Chinese fast charger which I bought through Aliexpress which I believe is a Qualcomm fast charger certification

So none of them have any 'proprietary' charging technology.
 
Julian said:
Your anecdotal/personal experience notwithstanding, the scientific fact is that batteries will degrade faster with quick charging.
Click to expand...

I never said that it doesn't. The thing is, that there is a best compromise situation depending on every user. So it is better to have the option of fast charging and not use it than not having the option at all.

Also, these discussions, at least for Android phones, has only become relevant for the past few years. Earlier, one would usually replace their phones before any battery issues would crop up as the phones would become unbearably usable from UI pov. Or, like you pointed out, had user replaceable batteries. Yes, you are right that completely trusting service centre guys doing their job sincerely isn't possible, but from my little experience getting work done through a known guy, it's not too difficult to do the job properly and most of them can do it easily.
 
msankadi said:
I had been using Rn7 pro over last 2 years, switched to realme x3 and my wife switched to realme x2 pro.

All of them I am able to fast charge with a Chinese fast charger which I bought through Aliexpress which I believe is a Qualcomm fast charger certification

So none of them have any 'proprietary' charging technology.
Click to expand...
Nearly all fast charging technologies are proprietary. Only USB-PD is not since it is from the USB Forum and part of the standard. Manufacturers can choose what to support but all end up including a proprietary technology, so your statement is wrong.

Apple only supports USB-PD. Samsung supports QC and USB-PD. Most Xiaomi phones support USB-PD and QC in addition to their proprietary fast charging technology. OnePlus definitely does not support USB-PD because of which it does not charge at a decent clip with other chargers and nor does it make its charger compatible with QC or USB-PD.

USB-PD was developed to enable everyone to use a single charger on all devices and hopefully it will be supported by all in the future. As I had mentioned initially, it is best to charge as slowly as you can get away with and if the manufacturer provides an option to not fast charge on the device itself, then a single fast charger can also be used to slow charge when needed.

Beyond a certain point, the returns for fast charging are largely diminishing and we are firmly in ridiculous territory with the numbers being now quoted for chargers by these Chinese manufacturers. But at the end of the day, the Chinese market is spec-driven and so is the Indian one, so they will continue to do so irrespective of its practicality.
 
Hi, can any one here suggest, how to charge new phone for say first 6-12 months... let fist time (first day of new phone).. do not charge and let it discharge and once it get switch off then only plug it with stock charger and charge it upto 80% or 100% and then from next time, as soon as battery go below 40% , charge again till it reaches 80%...?
 
Emperor said:
Hi, can any one here suggest, how to charge new phone for say first 6-12 months... let fist time (first day of new phone).. do not charge and let it discharge and once it get switch off then only plug it with stock charger and charge it upto 80% or 100% and then from next time, as soon as battery go below 40% , charge again till it reaches 80%...?
Click to expand...
Get accubattery app from play store... Helps you track number of cycles wear you are causing... Has lot of other great features
 
Emperor said:
Hi, can any one here suggest, how to charge new phone for say first 6-12 months... let fist time (first day of new phone).. do not charge and let it discharge and once it get switch off then only plug it with stock charger and charge it upto 80% or 100% and then from next time, as soon as battery go below 40% , charge again till it reaches 80%...?
Click to expand...
If you are rooted on Android then Battery Charge Limit can do it automatically.
www.androidexplained.com

How to Set a Custom Battery Charge Limit? - KrispiTech

Optimizing your charging patterns can increase your battery longevity by reducing the degredation over time and we can do this with an app that limits
www.androidexplained.com www.androidexplained.com

If you are on Samsung, you can disable Fast Charging.

If you are on iOS, you can toggle 'Optimized Battery Charging' to On.

Also, since this thread was about fast charging and its impact, I am linking to one of the tweets in the above article for reference:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1258660944877694978
 
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Also forgot to add...How large a battery is will impact the life of the battery after degradation/wear

A 6000 mah battery which has been degraded to 60% of its original health will still give more battery juice than an iPhone 12

So a smaller battery will become useless earlier even with less wear and tear.

So if you want to enjoy fast charging without compromise:
1. Buy a bigger battery and enjoy
2. Once it has been degraded to 50% (which should normally take >2-3 years for such high wear )worry not, just replace it at a meagre cost of 500-2k
 
rdst_1 said:
I never said that it doesn't. The thing is, that there is a best compromise situation depending on every user. So it is better to have the option of fast charging and not use it than not having the option at all.

...getting work done through a known guy, it's not too difficult to do the job properly and most of them can do it easily.
Click to expand...
Nope. Some of the comments here were leaning towards 'fast charging does not reduce battery life, you're stupid for not fast charging because even if the battery dies it only costs a few hundred bucks to replace'.

I have reached a level where I'm very comfortable opening and fixing phones. Not the soldering stuff, i don't have a blower/station, but any modules replacement. Learnt myself and referring to service manuals. And even old feature phones, have certain parts you're supposed to discard and replace with new ones every single time you open it. Especially adhesive components and gaskets. I can say with certainty that none of the local repair shops do so, they just reuse the old stuff and sometimes jugaad with fevikwik/araldite. I have doubts about even the authorised service centers doing so. Just open up a service manual and you will be shocked how many things need to be replaced just by opening the damn phone. So replacing the battery is not just that, you are compromising the integrity of the phone hardware every time someone opens it. This is India. Just because someone has 'fixed' your phone doesn't mean they did it the right way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Also forgot to add...How large a battery is will impact the usability of the battery after degradation/wear

A 6000 mah battery which has been degraded to 60% of its original health will still give more battery juice than a brand new iPhone 12 (2800mah)

So a smaller battery will become useless earlier even with less wear and tear.

So if you want to enjoy fast charging without compromise:
1. Buy a bigger battery and enjoy
2. Once it has been degraded to 50% (which should normally take >2-3 years for such high wear )worry not, just replace it at a meager cost of 500-2k
Julian said:
Nope. Some of the comments here were leaning towards 'fast charging does not reduce battery life, you're stupid for not fast charging because even if the battery dies it only costs a few hundred bucks to replace'.

I have reached a level where I'm very comfortable opening and fixing phones. Not the soldering stuff, i don't have a blower/station, but any models replacement. Learnt myself and referring to service manuals. And even old feature phones, have certain parts you're supposed to discard and replace with new ones every single time you open it. Especially adhesive components and gaskets. I can say with certainty that none of the local repair shops do so, they just reuse the old stuff and sometimes jugaad with fevikwik/araldite. I have doubts about even the authorised service centers doing so. Just open up a service manual and you will be shocked how many things need to be replaced just by opening the damn phone. So replacing the battery is not just that, you are compromising the integrity of the phone hardware every time someone opens it. This is India. Just because someone has 'fixed' your phone doesn't mean they did it the right way.
Click to expand...
 
Emperor said:
Hi, can any one here suggest, how to charge new phone for say first 6-12 months... let fist time (first day of new phone).. do not charge and let it discharge and once it get switch off then only plug it with stock charger and charge it upto 80% or 100% and then from next time, as soon as battery go below 40% , charge again till it reaches 80%...?
Click to expand...
The basic things are as follows but none of these are always practical to follow at all times. You will have to compromise sometime or the other.

1. Don't charge above 80% or discharge below 20%
2. Don't stress the battery. This means keeping charge/discharge cycles separate from each other. Let the battery rest and cool down before initiating the opposite cycle.
 
Julian said:
The basic things are as follows but none of these are always practical to follow at all times. You will have to compromise sometime or the other.

1. Don't charge above 80% or discharge below 20%
2. Don't stress the battery. This means keeping charge/discharge cycles separate from each other. Let the battery rest and cool down before initiating the opposite cycle.
Click to expand...

I just purchased Samsung A50s, so shall I charge it with default fast charger, or as replied by t3chg33k , nee to Disable Fast Charging for long life of battery.

About your comment, on mobile parts replacing/repair either from local BEST guy (master tech) or from Authorized Brand Service Center, 99% your phone will NEVER WORK AGAIN as it was prior to you took mobile for Repairing (I agree with you) .
 
Since we cannot find data sheet on phone batteries, we do have data sheets on 18650 cells, Sony VTC6 for example can be charged at 1c, these type of cells like VTC6, samsung 30Q etc are 3000mah capacity with 3C discharge rates, these have charge rates of 1C. Then you have the Panasonic NCR18650B these cells are high capacity 3400mah but these have a discharge rate of 1c and a standard charge rate of .5c , which would mean that you have to be charging at 1.7a but in 18650 charger world we only get chargers with 1A steps, so I charge the panasonic with 2A, I have been doing so since ages.

So we cannot really know what batteries types are used in phones but if the phone shipped with a fast charger use it. But slow charging .5c would definitely help in certian batteries.
What phone manufactures should do is have user selectable charge rate, so that one can choose depending on the scenario. Todays phones have batteries with 3000mah or more with much improved chemistries, so they all should be fine with 5v 2a charger.
 
Emperor said:
I just purchased Samsung A50s, so shall I charge it with default fast charger, or as replied by t3chg33k , nee to Disable Fast Charging for long life of battery.

About your comment, on mobile parts replacing/repair either from local BEST guy (master tech) or from Authorized Brand Service Center, 99% your phone will NEVER WORK AGAIN as it was prior to you took mobile for Repairing (I agree with you) .
Click to expand...
Use quick charging only when needed. Why stress the battery unnecessarily?
 
I charge my phone based on my usage...
1. Minimal use, 50-60%
2. Moderate use upto 80%.
3. If outside the entire day 100%.
So, I stress my battery as per usage.
One thing I would like to point is the degradation of the battery also depends on its quality. Accubattery+ already should my battery degraded to 89%. Don't know how correct it is as it's just been a year and I don't stress my phone with gaming. I haven't installed accu+ as I thought it would be draining the battery (I recently formatted my phone).
What do you guys think?
 
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