FDI in Retail!

Its not about the middlemen here. Its about wiping out an entire stream of business, aka your kirana stores, small cloth merchants, local shops, anything which is small in nature.
Trust me guys, they will not stand a chance. A big store like walmart can even suffer losses for a good 3 yrs, trade at heavy discounts to increase their mkt share, but our local businessman will never be able to compete in this scenario.
The FDI decision has its pro's and cons but i see a lot of cons for small traders here.
 
kuki_295 said:
They canceled class at allen kota, lame.

They never did a "Bharat Bandh" for janlokpal did they? :mad:

Oh well i always intended to leave india after iit. :)

Haha! Its funny to learn that you want to learn from one of the finest institutes in India and then run away, because India isn't that good. Well Done.
 
edge111hussain said:
Its not about the middlemen here. Its about wiping out an entire stream of business, aka your kirana stores, small cloth merchants, local shops, anything which is small in nature.

Trust me guys, they will not stand a chance. A big store like walmart can even suffer losses for a good 3 yrs, trade at heavy discounts to increase their mkt share, but our local businessman will never be able to compete in this scenario.

The FDI decision has its pro's and cons but i see a lot of cons for small traders here.

i) Its currently restricted to some 50 cities only, so rest of India will still be there for the small stores

ii) Small stores will still act as supplemantary sources. They will reduce in number, not disappear

iii) Stores like Ikea,Home Deopt will create new markets which have not existed in India till now, or exist on a very limited level

iv) The same small traders opposed to this move are also taking advantage of it.
 
kuki_295 said:
They canceled class at allen kota, lame.
They never did a "Bharat Bandh" for janlokpal did they? :mad:
Oh well i always intended to leave india after iit. :)

What is Allen Kota? Is that where the new IIT in Rajasthan is?
 
techno_guy said:
This reforms will actually ruin our economy. Instead of creation of jobs millions of people working in current wholesale+ retail sector will be unemployed as all general stores,etc. Will have shut down .
Farmers will be affected badly as they will have to sell the produce at the prices quoted by the foreign players as there wont be any other takers of their produce

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

No, the move will give a boost to our economy, will not lead its powers over smaller and weaker economies or drive out competition as it is restricted to 45 cities only. In fact our retail/wholesale sector might see an increase in number as FDI represents an opportunity for them to become more actively involved in international business activities and garner more and more business opportunities. Here the example of China is worth mentioning. After FDI in retail, chinese retailers still holds a majority of retail share. The number of small retailers has doubled, exports and GDP growth has continued unbated.

In short, FDI in retail sector will make our retail sector organized, generate more jobs and increases competition. Finally, it will be the consumers who will get benefited with a wide variety of quality goods at reasonable prices. :)
 
edge111hussain said:
Its not about the middlemen here. Its about wiping out an entire stream of business, aka your kirana stores, small cloth merchants, local shops, anything which is small in nature.
Trust me guys, they will not stand a chance. A big store like walmart can even suffer losses for a good 3 yrs, trade at heavy discounts to increase their mkt share, but our local businessman will never be able to compete in this scenario..
What is your basis to say the bolded bit ?

The issue has become politicised and the first casualty is the truth. So we get the usual BS where everybody parrots their political parties line.

What bugs me in this whole affair is why states that do not want this are blocking other states that do when there is no obligation on their part

edge111hussain said:
The FDI decision has its pro's and cons but i see a lot of cons for small traders here.
Again how do you know that. This isn't a 100% free for all it but comes with restrictions.

Cong united on FDI in retail: Commerce Minister Anand Sharma | Devils Advocate

Also can ppl post articles either pro or con here, as its much more informative & helpful to the discussion.
 
H2O said:
Haha! Its funny to learn that you want to learn from one of the finest institutes in India and then run away, because India isn't that good. Well Done.

First i agree my words were not well thought of, it'll remove to to avoid bashing and OT.

i do want learn from iit, family can't afford a good collage abroad.

But i can live where ever i want, whats wrong if i want to live in a better organised system, it is not the only reason i want to leave. when we buy new flat or house we look for the best environment locality which suits us.

My uncle always says this line : "Yaha raho ge to aisa he hoga" for many things. So in a way i do think life is better in other countries, but its also true that there will be different problems there, so i'll stay at best place i like.

Now i also know that i might sound like a coward or selfish when saying i want to leave india, but human life ain't that long.

You better keep your word...

Thats what i think now, nothing is certain. I want to be astrophysicist but who knows maybe my family won't agree with it (as a big salary is more importent for them)

What is Allen Kota? Is that where the new IIT in Rajasthan is?

Yep its a coaching institute at kota (rajasthan), iit rajasthan permanent campus is not built yet.

Any ways please i request to get back on topic:



My maths teacher (who is a fan of manmohan singh) believes that manmohan singh is trying to avoid future economic crisis like usa and europe is facing now by increasing foreign investments.
 
An insightful article on why NOT to allow FDI in retail and does so by demolishing the claims those that support it offer.

Market economy? or, market society? | Indian Express | Dec 05 2011
S Gurumurthy
Last Updated : 05 Dec 2011 07:54:27 AM IST

The ongoing debate on the FDI in retail is intolerably superficial at times. For a rational debate, the fundamentals of conflicting alternatives must be understood. Here are some basic truths about conventional Indian retail. For thousands of years, retailing in India has been local community business - selling retailers and buying households being familiar with each other. Even now Indian retailing is mostly neighbourhood, relation-based business.

There are 15 million retailers in India, including hawkers and pavement vendors. This translates to the greatest retailer density anywhere in the world - more than one retailer for 8 Indians! In contrast, China, more populous than India, has less than a twelfth of India’s retail density; just 1.3 million retailers - one for 100 Chinese.

In India, one retailer does not stock all needs of all customers. Several neighbourhood retailers - hawkers, roadside vendors, bunks and kirana shops - taken together stock and meet all their needs. The Indian retail business is estimated at $400 billion. Of which the share of corporate is now 5 percent; the rest 95 percent is handled by traditional retailers. The wholesale-retail trade in India has evolved as part of its social milieu over millennia, organised and linked by local relations. According to an FCCI study, food - read agriculture - accounts for 63 percent of retail trade. Here, some 74 million strong small farmer-wholesaler-small retailer combine - a social inheritance of generations - works, not hierarchically, but laterally through neighbourhood relations.

Some 58.8 million small-marginal farmers from 6.8 lakh villages sell their produce at 47,000 haats/shandies to some 15 million wholesalers-retailers. It is the largest decentralised business in the world. They all operate within a radius of 16 km of where they are. Yet, only 40 percent of the food produced is traded; the balance 60 percent is barter-shared by social relations within villages. This [60 percent] sharing and [40 percent] trading keeps rural India alive.

The Parliamentary Standing Committee Report on the FDI in retail [June 2009] says that traditional retail employs 40 million people; and finds the corporate retail claim to 20 lakh job “highly exaggerated”. The Committee is right. Walmart, with $422 billion global turnover, employs just 2.1 million people.

That is, with more than India’s retail business in its balance sheet, it provides less than 5 percent of India’s retail jobs! So the organised retail’s proven job potential is less than 1/20 of the performance of traditional retail. Where from did Anand Sharma get his maths that the FDI in retail would generate 10 million jobs then?

This stentorian noise for the FDI in retail makes four claims.
- One, the organised retail would avoid the huge - `50,000 crore - waste of farm products due to lack of efficient supply chain;
- two, with middlemen eliminated the farmers would get better prices;
- three, Walmarts and Tescos would procure farm products and export them like they do from China, which traditional retail cannot
- Four, it will yield more employment.

The claim about employment is bogus. What Walmarts and Tescos could not do elsewhere, they would not do here. The next claim, namely, like in China, Walmarts and Tescos would ramp up India’s exports ignores the basics of Indian and Chinese economies. China’s domestic consumption is low, just 35 percent of its GDP; the balance 65 percent is its exportable surplus. It has built this huge surplus over decades. India with a high domestic consumption of 58 percent has no such exportable surplus. Actually, it is sensible for Walmart to bring in goods from China, made cheaper by cheap yuan, into India.

Already Chinese goods are outselling Indian goods in India. India’s annual trade deficit with China, now $20 billion, is estimated to reach $278.5 billion by 2014! Far from making India prosperous, Walmarts and Tescos may impoverish it.

The claim that the FDI in retail will eliminate middlemen and enrich farmers is not borne out by facts. See the record of Tesco, the largest retailer in the UK, in contrast. It “exploits small farmers in the UK and worldwide”; “hastens their replacement” with monoculture plantations; “poses serious risks for developing country farmers” who have traditionally supplied to local street markets.

Further, “rather than growing their produce and taking it straight to a market, they have to deal with a chain of middlemen, supermarket’s standards of uniformity in shape and size, risking rejection of lot of their produce”. Farmer-friendly FDI in retail is contradiction in terms.

The campaign that the FDI in retail would prevent waste by efficient supply chain management ignores two vital facts.
- One, the national highway forms only 2 percent of India’s road network, but handles 40 percent of the road traffic! The other roads can handle only trucks smaller than 20’; and link only local markets. Walmarts and Tescos can’t build roads. The government has to. If it does, Walmart or Tesco are not needed.

- Two, on storage, a recent MIT paper says that as “demonstrated by the case study in rural India, the solution to food storage needs to be a bottom up approach. Communities need to be identified where the people have access to fresh food that is currently wasted and who are willing to put in the time to store it properly. Farm cooperatives are potential candidates.”

So, bottom up society, not topdown Walmarts or Tescos, is the answer.

Finally, the debate on the FDI in Indian retail misses out the most crucial point. Not only Indian retail, the whole of Indian economy functions more on relations, less on contracts. That is why 60 percent of the farm produce is socially shared. The trade in the rest are based on neighbourhood relations. When contracts replace human relations, it yields not “market economy” but “market society”, where even families function on contracts.

Margaret Thatcher once said: “There is no such thing as society. There are individuals and families. That is all.” But, the experience of the US/West has proved that traditional families cannot survive without functioning traditional society. As the US Bureau of Economic Research had foreseen in 1970s, now family functions have been effectively taken over by corporates and the State! Unbridled market first dismantles the relation-based society, then disturbs families, to yield a purely contract-based ‘market society’ finally.

The relation-less retail model of Walmarts and Tescos fits the contract-based US/West. But, of late, even in the West, debate on “market economy” vs “market society” has begun - “market society” being derided as Anglo-Saxon. QED: The real issue is not the FDI in retail, but what does the Indian Government, economists and elites want in India finally? A relation-friendly “market economy”? Or, a relation-less “market society”?

The MIT paper referenced in this article is here

Food Storage System: Solar Dryers & Metal Silos

The parliamentary standing commitee report tabled in 2009 which is the basis for opposition is here (PDF) (PRS Summary of the report)
Can anybody provide articles or comments to rebutt this report ?

This all party PSC basically slammed the idea so why did UPA bring it up again in the manner they did :huh:

Am begnning to have doubts this is going to pass.
 
Walmart currently employees lesser people and more of automation as human resources are very expensive in USA, so we should not compare the total count of people employed by Walmart in US to the people they would employ in India.

On a different track, the reducing FDI in India is a cause of concern and I guess retail is just an excuse, the main aim is to boast FDI in India.

(Reuters) - India may face its worst financial crisis in decades if it fails to stem a slide in the rupee, leaving the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) with a difficult choice over how to make best use of its limited reserves to maintain the confidence of foreign investors.

Source - India inches closer to crisis as rupee retreats | Reuters
 
just some opinions

fdi with respect to india is ok what i mean is it is not too good nor too bad.Why?.

big retailers will squeeze out smaller ones there is no doubt in that.

second the big retailers will force their pricing powers on the smaller manufacturers.So the pool of available manufacturers will shrink making it like a few huge manufacturers controlling a specific product.As everyone knows manufacturing in india is expensive compared to china.So India's current account deficit will rise and the indian manufacturers will shut shop.

Then the big retailers will dominate the pricing structure.

Unwanted stuff can be sold like gm foods.

Initially farmers will benefit but in the longer run they will be ruined .

Now the above scenario will not work with respect to a country like india under certain conditions.

India is too fragmented for a single store to have monopoly.Second India has different cultures for eg south indians eat rice north indians eat wheat.So one store getting monopoly is unrealistic.However as everyone knows this is india.If a country like usa and britain can be manipulated by big business then i feel india stands no choice.

so these are the cons.

Now some pros.

India needs funds for various backend operations,improve infrastructure etc.So India needs money.(This govt has looted all the money).There are ways to play this.Get the money from the funds,allow them to come in,then give full support to the local retailers and make them competitive,make them learn from the international retailers and then try to kick them out just like china has done.that way india can get the money,improve the infrastructure and the money stays local.However this is a foolish dream from my side.

So if the pros will not happen then why allow someone from outside access to our money?.

I know we all like ac shops,more choices but are more choices good?.I dont think more choices are good.Just look what it has done to the western nations.Unwanted health risks and so on.
 
Considering the governments plan from years to discourage manufacturers and encourage call centre's and of-course the govt's financial condition.

Sooner or later within 2-4 years india will have no choice left but to open up the FDI in more and more fields, the later we open up the more compromise we make.

Hence actually speaking there is no choice left !! it just "When"
 
It is over. Single brand will remain, but multi is over.

Another feather for The Lady of Bengal riding her high horse.
 
So can we presume we are slowing down for another 5 years or maybe more 'coz our political parties vested interest is a hindrance to see the bigger picture which could help consumers & farmers alike... I think FDI in retail cannot come to India unless there is a single party majority in parliament, which cannot happen anytime soon.. Opposition has a habit of opposing everything.
 
^^

I really do not know. The way our economy is going and how the rupee is weakening day by day, shows quite a torrid picture. The passing of this bill would / might have been a mini shot in the arm and a reprise to investors making things a little less speculative and volatile. Of course the investments will not come in, but a clear message goes out to the world, that India as a nation cannot pass of a bill of this accord.
 
Well, hopes quashed for now. Politics win. Too bad this that we dont have a consensus on this by which the govt can ask each and every citizen to vote for or against it.

Also on the weakening rupee, :mad: to the govt.
 
Atleast now we know why they were opposed to it

If supermarts had come in, considering the no. of people they would have employed for atleast 4-5 years, there wouldnt have been enough left to censor Facebook
 
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