Flipkart will soon come in a big problem

I agree.

Then again, I honestly don't think FK is any better. For example, I ordered an item earlier today on FK (WS Retail is the seller).

2 hours later I got a message saying the item is "shipped". Brilliant so far right?

Then I get an email stating although the item has shipped, it will take 8 days to reach me due to "Diwali" rush. 8 days?! WTH?

Snapdeal is even more hilarious. Ordered an item from them. 5 days later, I login to Snapdeal to check where my item has reached. In the "status" I see will be shipped in another 2 days! So they want 7 days before they will decide to ship an item and possibly 10-12 days before it finally reaches me? I cancelled the order and mentioned why in their "survey and feedback" form. Dolts.

Compare this to Amazon UK where items order from them even at times like Christmas which is PEAK SEASON in the EU takes 5-7 days in TOTAL via Royal Mail (or Deutsche Post) to reach me all the way from the UK to India. Just look at the distance covered in comparison.

Its ridiculous how bad Indian online retailers delivery logistics are in comparison.

And no, I will not sign up for Flipkart First (or whatever its called). Why should I have to? If Amazon can deliver something to me all the way from the UK to Indian in under 7 days then am I being unrealistic to expect our Indian retailers to offer a baseline 4-6 days (in total) for standard delivery within India (at least to Tier 1 cities) regardless of whether there's seasonal rush or not...?

Amazon UK stocks the items in its warehouse(as far as I know). It is a direct retailer itself. It is not a marketplace like Snapdeal. This issue has risen because of the government rules on FDI.
So 3rd party sellers on Snapdeal decide to ship their items as per their convenience. It is not stocked by Snapdeal in any way. So I really would not blame Snapdeal.

I am not able to understand who exactly are you angry with here - the eCommerce sites or the logistics company. They are totally different entities. Only Flipkart had its own logistics company but it looks like they have downsized it. In the past 1 month, I have received orders via eKart only thrice (out of 10+ orders by me and my colleagues). Two were books and the third was a tool set. They are using Delhivery/First flight etc for most of their orders.

Comparing Amazon UK/US to Amazon India would be totally unfair in my opinion because of the FDI norms.
 
Amazon UK stocks the items in its warehouse(as far as I know). It is a direct retailer itself.

Although Amazon.in is not a "Retailer" it DOES stock and ship 3rd party seller items that are "Amazon Fulfilled" directly from its own warehouses - much like Amazon UK does for "Amazon Fulfilled" orders in the UK. It also happens to use its own logistics arm for such deliveries to Tier 1 cities.

So 3rd party sellers on Snapdeal decide to ship their items as per their convenience. It is not stocked by Snapdeal in any way. So I really would not blame Snapdeal.

Again, I think you are unaware that Snapdeal also has a service called "Snap Deal Plus" (similar to "Amazon Fulfilled") where 3rd party sellers stock their items in Snapdeal's warehouses. When an order is placed for such an item, Snapdeal checks & ships these items directly from its warehouse -

http://www.bgr.in/news/snapdeal-shortens-delivery-time-sets-up-40-fulfilment-centres/

I am not able to understand who exactly are you angry with here - the eCommerce sites or the logistics company. They are totally different entities. Only Flipkart had its own logistics company but it looks like they have downsized it.

Not angry, merely annoyed.

I mentioned that the order I had placed was from WS Retail which as you said uses FK's own logistics so there's no reason for them to take 8 days to deliver an item using their own delivery service.

Also, its not just FK that has its own logistics for delivery. So does Amazon.in (for Amazon Fulfilled orders) -

http://services.amazon.in/services/fulfilment-by-amazon/benefits.html

Comparing Amazon UK/US to Amazon India would be totally unfair in my opinion because of the FDI norms.

Yes and no. I was only pointing out that Amazon.in, which, as I mentioned earlier, uses its own logistics for "Amazon Fulfilled" deliveries, takes longer to ship an item within India as compared to Amazon UK that ships an item all the way from the UK using 3rd party delivery services (ie., Royal Mail and Deutsche Post) and STILL manages to deliver items quicker. This is quite absurd IMO and shows how pathetically slow Amazon.in's delivery service (for Amazon Fulfilled orders) is.

Update from FK: Just got an SMS from FK to say that the item I ordered yesterday (and which was shipped yesterday as well) will now be delivered today - ie., in 24 hours and not the "8 days" they had mentioned earlier.

Something has definitely changed with FK because my earlier orders with FK (WS Retail) would take anywhere between 5-8 days to arrive. Anything below 4 days for standard delivery within India is perfectly acceptable in my book. 24 hours is a very pleasant surprise - well done FK! :)

So yea, it would appear that FK's delivery is light years ahead of Amazon.in as well. However just to be sure, I am ordering another item from FK to check if this is now the norm or just a one off fluke...
 
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@Rickyk, FK/WSRetail fast service is the norm even though I stay in tier 3 city FK ships it in 24 hours and it gets delivered in 3 days max. most of the time whereas my Amazon fulfilled order is shipped by Indian Post :( that too after 8 days. Amazon India is pathetic.
 
Although Amazon.in is not a "Retailer" it DOES stock and ship 3rd party seller items that are "Amazon Fulfilled" directly from its own warehouses - much like Amazon UK does for "Amazon Fulfilled" orders in the UK. It also happens to use its own logistics arm for such deliveries to Tier 1 cities.

Also, its not just FK that has its own logistics for delivery. So does Amazon.in (for Amazon Fulfilled orders) -

http://services.amazon.in/services/fulfilment-by-amazon/benefits.html

As far as I know, the courier company used by Amazon is a 3rd party agency not Amazon courier/delivery boys itself (I do not know what happens in other states. I am simply stating what happens in West Bengal/Kolkata). For Kolkata/West Bengal Amazon mostly uses GATI for the Amazon fulfilled orders.

What I have understood till now is that sellers who avail of "Fulfilment by Amazon", these guys do not have to give the items to the courier themselves. Amazon guys pick it up from the sellers/store it in their warehouse and ship it using their 3rd party courier service. The sellers can avoid the headache of finding a proper courier and Amazon can ensure that the item is shipped on time. This is similar to eBay power ship.

So even if an item is fulfilled by Amazon, it has to depend on the speed of delivery of the 3rd party courier.

P.S - Amazon India started operation only 1-2 years ago whereas they have been operating in UK for a much longer time.
 
As far as I know, the courier company used by Amazon is a 3rd party agency not Amazon courier/delivery boys itself (I do not know what happens in other states. I am simply stating what happens in West Bengal/Kolkata). For Kolkata/West Bengal Amazon mostly uses GATI for the Amazon fulfilled orders.

Its entirely possible they use different services in different states. When I get my Amazon Fulfilled orders delivered to me, its delivered by Amazon itself not a 3rd party courier company. I am 100% sure of this as their "Van" has been to my house several times to make deliveries and it has a HUGE "Amazon Delivery" (or "Amazon Delivers" ?) logo on the side. :)

What I have understood till now is that sellers who avail of "Fulfilment by Amazon", these guys do not have to give the items to the courier themselves. Amazon guys pick it up from the sellers/store it in their warehouse and ship it using their 3rd party courier service. The sellers can avoid the headache of finding a proper courier and Amazon can ensure that the item is shipped on time. This is similar to eBay power ship.

Well yes and no.

For starters, its the SELLERS responsibility to ship/deliver the item to Amazon's warehouse for storage. See this -

http://services.amazon.in/services/fulfilment-by-amazon/how-it-works.html

Its also mentioned in the FBA FAQ (see underlined part) -
How does FBA work?
You may express an interest in the Fulfilment by Amazon programme by filling in the Contact Us form.

  • After you have been accepted to our programme, you will need to register our fulfilment centre as an additional place of business for you with the tax authorities.
  • Then you will need to list your products and unit quantities in advance to be fulfiled.
  • You prepare and label your products and packages for shipping.
  • You ship your products to us.
  • We receive and store your product units in Amazon’s fulfilment centre.
  • We will ship your orders directly from Amazon’s fulfilment centre to the customers.

Although Amazon does offer a facility where -
Can someone manage delivery to Amazon’s fulfillment centre?
"We have service providers who can pick up packed products from your store or warehouse and deliver to Amazon’s fulfillment centres. These providers also can take appointments at FCs on your behalf"


Note that this is NOT Amazon that is picking up items from the seller but rather Courier companies that have tie ups with Amazon who will pick up items from the seller and transfer them to Amazon's warehouse for storage - for a price of course. The seller has to bear this cost. Also, the seller has to ship the items to Amazon's warehouse for storage much before an actual order for the item has been placed - ie. this is not done on a "per order" basis.

So even if an item is fulfilled by Amazon, it has to depend on the speed of delivery of the 3rd party courier.

Well in my city in particular, Amazon delivers through its own network not via 3rd party couriers.

P.S - Amazon India started operation only 1-2 years ago whereas they have been operating in UK for a much longer time.

Yes. But this is a could be read in two ways. Amazon.in is a subsidiary of Amazon.com which has been in operation for many more years than say FK/Snapdeal have. They therefore have that much more experience to draw from. While its true that a combo of FDI restrictions & some outdated laws probably throws multiple spanners in the way Amazon is used to working but even so I would expect them to at least MATCH FK's delivery service times rather than be so far behind.

Case in point - FBA order placed with Amazon couple of hours ago. While placing the order, there wasn't even an option of choosing a quicker delivery even if I was willing to pay the extra for it. Instead I was shown a message saying "the item would be delivered AFTER Diwali." :(

Now compare this to my FK order for an identical item yesterday (slight capacity difference though) that was DELIVERED to my house at 5 PM today - and I didn't even have to pay 1 Rupee extra for this super fast delivery...[DOUBLEPOST=1413829964][/DOUBLEPOST]
@Rickykwhereas my Amazon fulfilled order is shipped by Indian Post :( that too after 8 days. Amazon India is pathetic.

Well if its any consolation to you, I'm in a Tier 1 city and Amazon's "standard free shipping" time to me is usually 6-8 days as well. And this is via Amazons own shipping service - not Indian Post! :(
 
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My order(actually friend's) order of 2 X MI3 got cancelled due to 3 attempted deliveries but in actual they try to deliver 2 times only.
And I clearly stated that I am out of town & won't be available till monday but they never listened.

Upon talking(actually thrashing) Customer care and courier guy both, it seems something fishy is going on and they don't giving me back the unit even on requests n threatening.
I also told them that date of delivery was 22nd Oct, how they are delivering so early even I am not at that place.

F**K Flipkart.....on their policies.
 
One thing I hate about B&M stores, you buy stuff, something goes wrong the next day, they tell you to hit the streets and go to service centers. This will waste atleast two leave for those of us who are working during the day time. Just for this reason I prefer to buy from flipkart. Not to mention any purchase that I make from B&M have to be done during the week ends, on fk I can buy at 3AM in the night if I want.
 
Some snippets from an article that I don't think has been posted elsewhere on TE. Have a read -

Flipkart says vendors can't deny warranties
Hitting back at certain consumer electronics manufacturers that have been dissuading buyers from purchasing products on e-commerce platforms, Flipkart – India's largest e-marketplace operator – said it allows sale of only original products covered by replacement policies and manufacturers’ warranty. “The original products with an official invoice with all taxes paid cannot be denied warranties,” Flipkart spokesperson said responding to dna queries.

On the pretext of calling the e-marketplaces like Flipkart, Amazon India, Snapdeal, eBay India as 'not authorised resellers' of their products, consumer electronics manufacturers like Sony, LG, HP, Nikon, Lenovo, Dell, etc. have on their respective websites said they cannot vouch for the genuineness of products sold on these e-marketplaces and hence the consumer's right to warranty coverage and support on those products could be impacted.


What these consumer electronics manufacturers are indirectly trying to say is that they won't take responsibility, if something goes wrong with the product being bought from the e-marketplaces that are offering them at significant discounts. In fact, the companies are also seem to be alleging that products sold on the e-marketplaces are 'fake'.


For instance, in an advisory dated October 6, 2014, LG India informed customers that it 'has not authorised any e-commerce company / web portal to sell LG product(s) – television and audio products, home appliances, air-conditioners and mobiles in India for and/or on behalf of the company. The company does not take responsibility for the genuineness of an LG product(s) sold through any of the e-commerce companies/web portals in India, and thus, the company retains the right of not extending additional services/warranties to such LG product(s). LG product(s) can also be booked online directly at the company’s website (www.lgbrandstore.com/in) which is the authorized website for online purchase of all LG product(s) in India.'


LG India officials did not respond to dna queries and clarifications sought on the aforesaid advisory which was spotted by Nithin Jawali at a physical electronics store, a picture was posted by him on twitter -- https://twitter.com/Nithin/status/521993062566739970.


Commenting on the warranty / guarantee issue, Amazon's director of category management, Samir Kumar, said, the e-marketplace takes pride in claiming that it sells genuine products. “We ensure vendors on our marketplace are selling genuine products and if any vendor isn't, we will take them out of our network. Brands and manufacturers are obligated to honour the warranty if products sold are genuine.


"We also take a very customer backward approach in case anything happens to products bought from our e-marketplace and back it up with what we call the 'a to z guarantee', wherein we take care of any issue that a customer might face from a brand or a vendor,” he said.


eBay India on its part said that sellers who put up the listings of their products are governed by what they state as description and specification for their items, which at times may include manufacturer’s warranty as well. “We have rarely come across instances where manufacturers have refused to honour warranty services. In case a buyer claims manufacturer warranty for a product purchased from a seller on eBay India, the buyer is expected to coordinate with authorised service center of the manufacturer of the product to avail the warranty.


"If such an instance does occur, then as a responsible ecommerce player, we coordinate with the seller and the buyer to arrive at a resolution,” said Girish Huria, official spokesperson, eBay India. He added that manufacturers denying honouring warranty on the ground that a consumer has not purchased their product from the authorised outlet of the manufacturer (even if such purchase falls within the warranty period) ultimately affects the interest of consumers.


Retail industry experts are of the opinion that, it's a matter of public interest litigation (PIL) and customers / consumer groups can take the consumer electronics manufacturers to court for not extending warranty / guarantee on products sold on e-marketplaces. Experts too say firms are obliged to give warranty/guarantee on products irrespective of where they are sold.


“It does not matter what price I have paid or for that matter where have I bought the product from i.e. offline, online or e-marketplaces. The companies are obliged to give warranty / guarantee on all the products manufactured by them. The only exception can be if the customer has bought a fake product,” said Arvind Singhal, chairman and managing director, Technopak (a specialist retail industry consultancy and advisory).


Queries seeking responses on the warranty / guarantee issue from consumer electronics companies like Sony India, LG, Videocon, VU Technologies, ASUS, remained unanswered at the time of going to print. However, among few consumer electronics companies supporting the e-marketplaces are Samsung India, Panasonic India and HTC.


Commenting on the issue, Manish Sharma, managing director, Panasonic India, said, “As a philosophy, for us the customer comes first and e-tailers provide us with one more channel to cater to customer needs and focus on customer satisfaction, which is of utmost importance to us.”


Chia-Lin Chang, president of global sales and chief financial officer, HTC, on Friday (October 17, 2014) announced exclusive partnerships with e-marketplaces like Amazon.in (for HTC Desire 820 and 820q) and Snapdeal.com (for HTC Desire 516c dual sim and little camera RE). Responding to market concerns on the warranty / guarantee issue, Chang assured, “HTC will honour all responsibilities.”


Rajiv Mishra, vice president (media) and spokesperson, Samsung India said that the company management has kept its ears close to the ground and has been regularly monitoring the developments in both the online and offline retail space. “A key stakeholder in our growth strategy, the interest of our business partners is of prime importance to us. We have been able to successfully manage expectations across channel partners by ensuring that their interests are well taken care of and will continue with the same strategy in the future,” he said.


Full article here for anyone interested -
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-flipkart-says-vendors-can-t-deny-warranties-2028188

Reason I posted this is I'm actually going to test this out myself. I'm ordering an LG Washing machine from FK tomorrow. WS Retail is the seller & they are stating a delivery time of 2 days for the product (which I shall be monitoring as well).

FK clearly states on the product page that the machine carries a "2 Years Comprehensive Warranty from LG" whereby - "All Parts excluding Outer Cabinet and Plastic Parts from the Date of Purchase will be Covered under Warranty. This also covers all Manufacturing Defects."

They even go so far as to state -
"Standard installation and demo is provided free of cost. Kindly call the toll-free customer care number for LG at 1800 180 9999 to schedule a demo of your Washing Machine. You shall provide details of the purchased model during the call. Post the call, you will receive a ticket number from LG.

The brand authorized service engineer will schedule a mutually convenient time to provide installation and demo at your doorstep. Usually this is done within 48 hours of logging a ticket with LG customer care."


So in essence, LG will "authorize" and depute an LG Service Engineer who will visit for both the demo as well as the Installation of the machine.

IMO, this will actually be a very important -FIRST TEST- in a sense as I fully intend to tell the person I speak to on the LG toll-free customer care number that the machine in question, has been purchased from WS Retail off FK.

If LG feels that WS Retail is NOT "an authorized seller" and therefore that the machine may not be "Genuine", then they should REFUSE the demo/install process itself while clearly stating their reason for doing so.

If this were to happen, I would be well within my rights to ask FK for a full refund should I choose to do so.

If however LG doesn't object and instead send their deputed "Engineer" to Demo and Install the machine then IMO, they are tacitly accepting the fact that WS Retail is "authorized" to sell the product, that the product is GENUINE and that therefore the Warranty would apply as normal.

Of course, this fact may need to be tested in a Court of Law but I'm fairly confident that the outcome would be in the Consumers favor on the issue.

And if BY CHANCE something happens to go wrong with the product within the 2 year Warranty period and the part in question is covered by the Warranty and LG refuses to honor the Warranty I plan on taking both FK and LG to the Consumer Court.

FK for "false advertising" and "misleading claims" and LG for refusing to honor Warranties on a "genuine" product bought for with a proper tax paid bill.

Either way, ONE of them will be proved wrong and online consumers might finally discover what the legal position on the issue really is.

I will of course, post on TE -IF- this happens as I'm sure a lot of TE users would be interested to see how that goes.

Maybe the machine will run flawlessly during the Warranty period and I wont need to test the legal stand on the issue. Who knows?

I'm going to let fate decide. :)

I honestly believe that until someone actually does this (or maybe some enterprising consumer/lawyer files a PIL on the issue), there won't be any sort of clarity and we, ie., online consumers will always be left feeling unsure on where we stand with Warranties of certain brands of (Genuine) OEM products sold by various sellers (WS Retail specifically in this case) on E-Commerce sites...
 
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@Rickyk Did buy a washing machine some time back from Snapdeal. The engineers from LG came and gave the demo. I did not ask specifically on whether the warranty exists or not and whether Snapdeal is actually allowed to sell items or not.

However, Nikon specifically does not encourage buying from online stores. I have seen that multiple times.
 
Ok here's an update for anyone interested.

I was advised by someone who is conversant with law that I need to get FK to clarify their stand on the issue before I buy an LG product from them.

Several emails to FK asking them to clarify the Warranty issue on LG products.

Stony silence from FK.

They simply refuse to reply on the issue despite repeated emails. Had FK replied to my emails positively, I would have been more than willing to back them and buy the machine from them because I personally think they are in the right with regard to the issue. I'm going to send another email reminder to FK but I somehow doubt they will reply.

I also visited the OFFICIAL LG online store - http://www.lgbrandstore.com/in/ which explicitly mentions the "advisory" I referred to in my earlier post. It states -

"This LG Online Brand Store Website is the only Website to book Guaranteed Original LG India Products and to avail LG Authorized After Sale Services. We do not Guarantee the Originality of Products, Suitability & Updated Technology for Indian conditions and LG Authorized After Sale Services for LG Products purchased from any other E – Commerce Websites."

According to the above, LG can deny support (After SS) for products bought on -ANY- other online stores.

IMO, it is irresponsible, unethical and highly regrettable that online sites are essentially lying/misleading customers while stating LG products they sell carry "Manufacturers Warranty" when the manufacturer states they do not guarantee the same for products bought on any online site other than their own.

I would personally advise people NOT to buy LG products online unless they are buying it off LG's own site.

If you do so, there is a risk that LG may deny Warranty/After SS should it be required.

Unless & until this stand is tested in a court of law, it will continue to be a grey area with one side claiming there is Warranty while the other side claims there isn't.

I have decided to skip buying an LG Washing Machine (or any LG product for that matter) and consider Samsung (and other brands) instead that don't have such "consumer unfriendly" restrictions.

Vote with your wallet - its one of the BEST tools we have as consumers.

On another note, there is some hope that new legislation may be forthcoming that seeks to look out for the rights of the consumers vis-a-vis E-Tailers. From the TOI -

E-tailers may come under consumer protection law
NEW DELHI: The consumer affairs department has moved a Cabinet proposal to bring e-commerce through all electronic modes, including through e-tailers such as Flipkart, Amazon, makemytrip, bookmyshow, and even direct selling under the consumer protection law. Moreover, if teleshoppers and e-tailers fail to take back defective items and return the amount paid by a customer within a month even after a request is made, action can be initiated against such players.

These have been included in the proposed amendments, considering sharp increase in online buying and selling of goods and services. The changes have become necessary since many consumers are buying online or through telemarketing companies simply after going through advertisements, leading to a direct interaction between buyers and sellers.

However, there is a catch in this proposal. It says an "electronic intermediary shall not be said to have engaged in 'unfair trade practice' if it facilitates manufacturers, traders or other persons, who use such electronic intermediary for advertising, selling or providing goods or services." Sources said this has been done to differentiate between those actually sell goods/services and those just work as marketing entities, though there is a section of people, who believe this provision would be "exploited" by the e-tailers.

Considering that consumers can file a case or complaint only if they have a cash memo or bill, there is also a proposal to make it mandatory for sellers to provide such transaction records. In case the seller fails to provide this, the consumer can file a complaint with competent authorities and action can be initiated for such "unfair trade practice".

In order to ensure that consumer rights are enforced and protected, the Cabinet note proposes setting up of a Consumer Protection Authority, which will have powers to act against marketing of products and services that are unsafe and hazardous. The independent body will also have the responsibility of informing consumers about the quality, purity, standard, misleading and deceptive advertisements by sellers.

Moreover, it will have the power to conduct investigation — both suo-motu or on a complaint — conduct search, seizure of documents, articles and records. It can also summon delinquent manufacturers, advertisers, besides ordering recall of goods on the basis of investigation that are unsafe or hazardous, issue safety notices, and order withdrawal of false or misleading advertisements.

The authority can also impose administrative fine on those found violating the law. It will be based on the impact of violation with respect of population and area affected, frequency and duration of violation, vulnerability of people and the gross revenue that a manufacturer has got from sales.

Supporting the need for the authority, the consumer affairs department is of the view that this will fill an institutional void in the regulatory regime. At present, the task of prevention or acting against unfair trade practices is not vested on any authority. The authority will have the power to initiate "class action, including enforcing recall, refund and return of products".

The Cabinet note has also proposed a new chapter with provisions for 'product liability' action for or on account of personal injury, death or property damage caused by any product.
 
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New update.

FK FINALLY decided to reply to my email regarding Warranties on the LG Washing Machine I raised last week.

FK has replied stating that in case there is any problem with obtaining Warranty on the product they will assist with it - that's good enough for me.

Ordered the LG Washing machine from FK. Estimated delivery is 2 days.

One nice feature they seen to have added that I have never seen before (or maybe its for bulky items) is that the buyer can choose the date and time of delivery...
 
^Another reason why I stick to "WS Retail" exclusively while buying from FK...
Hi Ricky

Thx for sharing your experience and insights on LG/FK combo purchase.How did the installation and the registration for the warranty go? Did you face any roadblocks or issues during the registration? Since I am also planning for the online route (FK) for the LG purchase I wanted to be doubly sure before I do that.
Before writing this post I did speak to both LG CC and FK CC and found LG still not recommending/advising through FK, even FK is not clearly confirming anything with respect to the warranty registration.

TIA
 
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