Government foils Apple's plan to dump used iPhones in India
- Thread starter pauldmps
- Start date
G
geekwithlens
Other companies fear Apple taking away their market share by selling used phones.
Like how are they going to manage that? There are basically 3 types of takers for iPhone's
- Rich idiots who just buy things based on cost just to show that they can buy costly things. They buy it even when it costs 1.5 Lac on ebay without any understanding what they are buying and they are the kind who have regularly bought older iterations of iPhone's thinking they are the new versions. Earlier sellers used to take advantage of this. Whenever a new iPhone gets released, they used to list the older models at high prices on ebay hoping that these idiots would end up buying them and they succeed too.
- Not so rich idiots who want to want to pretend or show off that they too fall into the first group by buying what ever the above group buys even if it breaks their or their parents banks.
- People who need an easy to use multimedia phone with a few smart phone like features and buy iPhone's with full understanding of its capabilities and limitations.
People who do understand and buy iPhones for its minimalist feature set and capabilities are rare. So that leaves the rich and the wannabes which has always been the main market in India and for that matter, that was also the main intended target user base for iPhone all over the world. Apple has basically built a cheaper version of what Vertu phones used to be.
So is selling refurbished phones really such a good idea keeping that in mind? iPhone has already lost its novelty factor and on top of that, if the first group knows that there are refurbished units are in circulation and anybody get them cheap, their own purchase would have no value and they will look for something else to buy. And if the first group stops buying, the second group would have no reason to buy them. The only group it would be attractive to would be the last group and I doubt there would be many of them to offset losing their main market.
So what would make them do that? Companies like these are bound by regulatory obligations in US (and maybe in some other markets as well) that they would be responsible for recycling of certain volume of e-waste in proportion to the volume of stuff they manufacture and sell. The waste they recycle does not need to be theirs. So currently, they end up paying large amounts of money to recycling outfits to procure and recycle waste on their behalf. I guess selling refurbished phones can also count towards recycling numbers.
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blr_p
Skilled
What is dumping ground BS ?
So should they also ban brand new phones too. What happens to them after a few years ?
The statement in effect means price of phones should be kept high. it should not become more affordable. It's the same BS thinking this country has had since independence.
Guess apple will just have to try again.
So should they also ban brand new phones too. What happens to them after a few years ?
The statement in effect means price of phones should be kept high. it should not become more affordable. It's the same BS thinking this country has had since independence.
Guess apple will just have to try again.
Apple is providing a plan in the US which makes subscribers get the latest iPhone when it is launched. So they need to dump the 1 year used ones somewhere.
If a new phone becomes waste in "few" years, these refurbished wouldn't take those "few" years before you throw them out.
The high prices are not government's fault. Its Apple's fault if they sell devices 4X the manufacturing cost.
Party Monger
Skilled
LOL. If android stops crashing, lagging and give random issues everyother day, people will stop buying Apple products.Apple doesnt generally put everylatest and greatest feature into their product and they are greedy in general with the pricing, but the quality is top notch and the features they have work extremely well. Apple has a lot of faults, but their devices are some of the best. Your reply might change once you actually use without bias.
And before you say it, im neither rich nor do I show off, nor am I a basic user. I use two iDevices. I hate the locked down OS, but damn it gets work down very well without frustrating me 50 times a day over random shit. For some people who want to get shiit done, thats important. (Ps- dont use an iphone (using an android with a custom rom, but plenty other Apple devices)
Hah i knew that would be their excuse. As much as I hate "waste" in any form the above is kind of hypocritical. El-cheapo phones will contribute to more e-waste than refurb iPhones mind you and they are being given a literally free run over our poor Indian lives, and the number will have further increased by a lot in the next few years unless an agency starts collecting these scraps, somehow repairs them and ships them to the rural areas for free or affordably cheap and a private organization will never do it unless its feasible. And an obvious thing, since android phones are so damn affordable people will keep on buying them as long as they have the money and then simply throw them out after they are bored of using them. India has already become a dumping ground for e-crap. Its not a breaking news.
Would depend on how good/bad the phones are, really, and how often people replace them with yet other new ones. Better phones will obviously have some resale value to them but the already cheaper ones (in their new condition) might have only little or none at all. Another concern is if people will buy them.
well you can't disagree with that haha. Sad thing is this shit happens even with phones which cost upwards of 10k and spending an amount of 10k only to get a laggy phone is not funny.
What's stopping Apple from making their new iPhone's more affordable? The average iPhone costs about 10k to manufacture and even after adding their brand premium, they sell it for a considerably higher price in India compared US unlocked prices. For instance the iPhone 6s 128GB costs 58k in US where as in India it costs 73k. I know that there are duties to be considered, but then the volume of margin they make is also quite high, so why not at least have price parity if they are so concerned about affordability in Indian markets?
Instead, they jacked up prices at every opportunity. If the govt increases duties by 1%, these guys jack up the price by 5k. In order to sell the overpriced iPhone 6 SE as an "affordable" iPhone, they jack up the prices of other models. They brought in unsold inventories of iPhone 4/4s after the 5/5s got released and sold them at not so affordable prices.
There a many other phone manufacturers who see India a as dumping ground for unsold items, Xiaomi is but one example. Their launch device in India Mi3 is an example. But at least they sell such products at prices that can be deemed affordable in reality instead of in their own marketing.
Instead, they jacked up prices at every opportunity. If the govt increases duties by 1%, these guys jack up the price by 5k. In order to sell the overpriced iPhone 6 SE as an "affordable" iPhone, they jack up the prices of other models. They brought in unsold inventories of iPhone 4/4s after the 5/5s got released and sold them at not so affordable prices.
There a many other phone manufacturers who see India a as dumping ground for unsold items, Xiaomi is but one example. Their launch device in India Mi3 is an example. But at least they sell such products at prices that can be deemed affordable in reality instead of in their own marketing.
G
geekwithlens
Used iPhones will cost lesser than a new iPhone. Indians don't miss a chance to show off, so probably it will be a threat to other companies in the mid price range. Apple is already selling refurbished phones in many parts of the world and the first group is still buying it.
Add a 4th type: Developers.
rakesh_ic
ex-Mod
May be you had a blind eye to application crashing and random issues on your iPhone. Also, I would advice you to try a high end droid than the ones that doesnt have sufficient specs to pull off what android is made for. BTW, existence of low level droids mean that android has every segment covered, unfortunately isheeps and Apple never understood what it means.
PS:: I have used droids went onto iphone 5s and and 6. Came back to Android - s6 since i realized iphone is no better than any droid in terms of application fluidity and crashes. Besides, iphone made life tougher since everything you have to access needs you to perform couple of touches before getting to what you want (a simple setting changes takes you minimum 10 secs more than the low grade droid)
I have had access to and have used every iteration of iPhone and iPad at work. I also have an iPad 2 (bought for my mom in 2012) at home and none of my Android phone + tablet purchases put together has given me as many software driven problems as that single iPad.
- Sound volume broken after iOS7 upgrade. (common issue as reported online. None of the workarounds resolved it to satisfaction)
- Random freezes after iOS8 upgrade.
- Apps stop working after a point if I don't upgrade to latest OS.
- Each OS update makes the device more and more unusable
- Severe performance issues and lag.
- Issues with App Store and credit card linking removal.
Apple is very much into planned obsolescence, so some of these may be deliberate. The iPad was usable for 1 year, and it was literally little more than a paper weight after that. Even a novice user like my mom with limited expectations was not happy with the iPad. Last year, I got a Mi Pad to replace the iPad and she has been really happy with it.
On the Android front, I have Galaxy S, Galaxy S3, Micromax Canvas HD, Lenovo Vibe Z2 Pro, Xiaomi Redmi Note 3, Asus TF 300 and Mi Pad. Except for the Micromax, none one of the other devices have given me any problem. Even the oldest ones are still in perfect working condition. Only the Micromax had its internal flash storage go for a toss after 3.5 years of usage and became unusable. It also had a sound volume problem initially which I resolved by making adjustments in the service menu. Apart from that, it was flawless for the duration that it worked.
The Asus Tablet in particular was bought at the same time as the iPad 2. It stopped getting OS updates after jelly bean, but it still works quite well and usable even if a bit slow. It has roughly the same battery life as the iPad, but takes less than half the time to charge. the battery is still going strong while the iPad battery life reduced over the years. And it cost the same as the iPad after including the keyboard dock which extends the battery life by 5 more hours, adds a full sized USB port and a SD card slot. I could extend the storage of this device to a total of 224 GB.
I also used Android 5.1 on my Surface Pro 4 via AMI DuOS and never had any issues.
Yeah, some people do face issues with Android, but that is true for Apple products as well. But personally, I have faced more issues with iOS/Mac OS than with any of their competition in my 11+ years of using and developing on Apple platforms.
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I guess different people have had different experiences with Android and iOS but after using Android for 6+ years, i can't live with it anymore. Android devices usually have the a 2 year life after which something or the other starts going wrong while apple devices last 3-4 years without much problems. I can still use my iPad2 for a lot of tasks while my friends' Nexus 7 bought 1.5 years later has become barely usable.
Similarly, my S5 has become terrible while the same friends' iPhone 5S still gets 5+ hour SOT so even though i spent 50k, my phone was effectively a high end device only for a year after which the 5.0 update ruined it. Say whatever you will about Apple but for anyone not a power user (especially non tech savvy people), iPhones are significantly easier to live with, have a higher resale value and are built really well.
The refurb idea was nice if the phones had been priced at about a 30% discount and this "electronic waste" excuse is such BS. India is already the highest importer if e-waste in the world and i doubt this would have made much of an impact.
Similarly, my S5 has become terrible while the same friends' iPhone 5S still gets 5+ hour SOT so even though i spent 50k, my phone was effectively a high end device only for a year after which the 5.0 update ruined it. Say whatever you will about Apple but for anyone not a power user (especially non tech savvy people), iPhones are significantly easier to live with, have a higher resale value and are built really well.
The refurb idea was nice if the phones had been priced at about a 30% discount and this "electronic waste" excuse is such BS. India is already the highest importer if e-waste in the world and i doubt this would have made much of an impact.
Party Monger
Skilled
I have an ipad mini ie, that is the one that is equivalent to ipad 2. Its on Ios 7 and has zero issues. Its used by everyone for pdfs, youtube and other random stuff. Sure its not the fastest but it doesnt crash and drag and cause issues. I have an iPad Air 2. Zero issues. The thing is awesome. The apps on it are insane. Android doesnt have equivalent apps for a lot of them. I dont know why you're biased. I like android. Use it everyday. I just recognise what you pay for in Apple. Its stability.
As for your cost argument, LOL. Why dont you work for peanuts? Why do you insist on a high salary? The best you can get? Thats the same reason Apple charges high. Cause they can. You also forget that Hardware is not the only cost. There is service, and they have their own OS that they run from scratch. Not to say that they dont still earn truck loads of money. But I'd gladly pay 30% more for a stable product that I will use 2-3 yrs that wont waste my time or frustrate me. And with known limitations, I can work around them.
As for planned obsolecense. LOL atleast you ipad 2 got an update till the time they could squeeze in features.. How many Samsung devices get updates beyond a year or 1.5yrs? LMAO. You know devices get slow with upgrades. All devices do. If you prefer speed then dont upgrade. I havent found a single app that I cant use on ios7. And btw, when I got the ipad mini it was already obsolete. Still the damn thing works like a charm except for lags in browser.
Again, not shitting on the Android party, but your views are way too biased, almost bordering on hatred. You can write essays on it, but what you read betrays that sense of hatred rather than objectivity. Android has its strengths. Apple has its own. Pick the ones you like. For a device that is used a lot, id prefer stability. Not sure why you experience all those crashes. I've never experienced any. And since there are no customization involved, you can just reset and restore apps and data.
.. and Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion believes Apple is bringing 'Cutting-Edge technology' to India.
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/new...l-sourcing-norms-says-government-panel-831104
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/new...l-sourcing-norms-says-government-panel-831104
What a pointless discussion is going on. It has gone almost haywire to the topic.
I have X issues so Y company sucks while I have Y issue so Z company sucks is such a childish way of reaching to conclusion. Software updates can bring discrepancies in the hardware given not every chip is the same, even a different batch of the same chip manufactured on same node can exhibits varying behaviour. 0922apmw X2 550 was particularly known for unlocking while other batch of same chips do not. If you had any issue after an update its imperative of the user to check with the concerned company service centre and if they fails to entertain why not go to consumer forum. Even after warranty if the manufacturer update create a defect its their liability to fix it.
I find it derogatory and demeaning to use words like isheep, rich idiots and label anyone on your prerogative. I don't even want to indulge in the debate of price or preference, but if someone has no issues buying a premium products, its is no one's right to criticise or demean them. Sour grapes? From this logic premium cars, electronic and other premium amenities should be shunned. There's no stopping if you start to roll the wheel back, stone age shall we? High per capita income has its own underpinnings vis a vis increase per capita contribution to global warming, shall it be shunned as well? So if you are fine adopting other extra premium amenities why create a fuss on selective product? Why the hypocrisy? There are always low end alternatives but you prefer the best, there are those who live and die in scorching heat yet you relax in AC. There are millions who sleep without eating proper meal yet to waste handful in an expensive hotel. Should we label people on that too?
@Ajay bro I remember you buying multi gpu multi hard drive and other bleeding edge hardware for your setup. Were those necessary? Can't you achieve a little less performance with little less money to pacify your needs. Sure you can, but you decided to go for the best money can buy, to enjoy content at best possible experience. I bet you still have a killer rig, what if someone label you based on your purchase? I am sustaining my needs off of a RPI3 though a bit laggy at times, I find it highly amusing and awesome for the size and performance it packs. I am happy so was I when I owned a high end rig.
I have never personally owned Apple products aside from 2 archaic ipods which isn't the point of contention. I have an Android phone from 1+ with very basic and day 1 issue that has plagued the device. Should I whine? Or should I cruse android/1+ for that. Technically I can sue them but I won't. They try with every update and instead of fixing issue they come up with more. I think people should show some more maturity when coming up with complaints and such. Every platform has its own underpinning and strengths you can't compare them head on because they are not same not based on same hardware.
But I digress, coming back to topic. I think its very idiotic decision by the government and it pretty obvious they are being lobbied by local manufacturer championing the Make in India flag. I also find the diktat to be a paradox, on the one hand government talk of less governance and government's no indulgence in business but on the contrary they debar companies from flexing their muscle. What government should ensure is that the device whether refurbished or not checks the bill in government regulations. More importantly I don't think even these refurbished phones will give a competition to low end stack given apple's record with pricing. Its not like Apple will trick user by selling refurbished phone by saying its a new one. I think refurbished will be mentioned before hand like its mentioned in many available factory refurbished phones already selling in the market and online.
Its in consumer right to choose what they want and buy what want. Government should have no say in this. This is not a predatory pricing or dumping of Chinese companies and government respectively vis a vis to mobile tsunami and steel. If government wants to safeguard local manufacture they should levy some dumping duty like they are doing with steel. This is a clear violation to governments own policy and a setback to constitution wrt. to consumer.
Peace.
No Offence meant.
I have X issues so Y company sucks while I have Y issue so Z company sucks is such a childish way of reaching to conclusion. Software updates can bring discrepancies in the hardware given not every chip is the same, even a different batch of the same chip manufactured on same node can exhibits varying behaviour. 0922apmw X2 550 was particularly known for unlocking while other batch of same chips do not. If you had any issue after an update its imperative of the user to check with the concerned company service centre and if they fails to entertain why not go to consumer forum. Even after warranty if the manufacturer update create a defect its their liability to fix it.
I find it derogatory and demeaning to use words like isheep, rich idiots and label anyone on your prerogative. I don't even want to indulge in the debate of price or preference, but if someone has no issues buying a premium products, its is no one's right to criticise or demean them. Sour grapes? From this logic premium cars, electronic and other premium amenities should be shunned. There's no stopping if you start to roll the wheel back, stone age shall we? High per capita income has its own underpinnings vis a vis increase per capita contribution to global warming, shall it be shunned as well? So if you are fine adopting other extra premium amenities why create a fuss on selective product? Why the hypocrisy? There are always low end alternatives but you prefer the best, there are those who live and die in scorching heat yet you relax in AC. There are millions who sleep without eating proper meal yet to waste handful in an expensive hotel. Should we label people on that too?
@Ajay bro I remember you buying multi gpu multi hard drive and other bleeding edge hardware for your setup. Were those necessary? Can't you achieve a little less performance with little less money to pacify your needs. Sure you can, but you decided to go for the best money can buy, to enjoy content at best possible experience. I bet you still have a killer rig, what if someone label you based on your purchase? I am sustaining my needs off of a RPI3 though a bit laggy at times, I find it highly amusing and awesome for the size and performance it packs. I am happy so was I when I owned a high end rig.
I have never personally owned Apple products aside from 2 archaic ipods which isn't the point of contention. I have an Android phone from 1+ with very basic and day 1 issue that has plagued the device. Should I whine? Or should I cruse android/1+ for that. Technically I can sue them but I won't. They try with every update and instead of fixing issue they come up with more. I think people should show some more maturity when coming up with complaints and such. Every platform has its own underpinning and strengths you can't compare them head on because they are not same not based on same hardware.
But I digress, coming back to topic. I think its very idiotic decision by the government and it pretty obvious they are being lobbied by local manufacturer championing the Make in India flag. I also find the diktat to be a paradox, on the one hand government talk of less governance and government's no indulgence in business but on the contrary they debar companies from flexing their muscle. What government should ensure is that the device whether refurbished or not checks the bill in government regulations. More importantly I don't think even these refurbished phones will give a competition to low end stack given apple's record with pricing. Its not like Apple will trick user by selling refurbished phone by saying its a new one. I think refurbished will be mentioned before hand like its mentioned in many available factory refurbished phones already selling in the market and online.
Its in consumer right to choose what they want and buy what want. Government should have no say in this. This is not a predatory pricing or dumping of Chinese companies and government respectively vis a vis to mobile tsunami and steel. If government wants to safeguard local manufacture they should levy some dumping duty like they are doing with steel. This is a clear violation to governments own policy and a setback to constitution wrt. to consumer.
Peace.
No Offence meant.
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Have you even read my post properly? I am not saying that they should reduce their prices, I am saying that nobody is stopping them from bringing price parity with other markets before they start talking about dumping refurbished goods in the Indian market in the name of making phone's affordable for sorry old us. They are not doing any favors by dumping them here. Instead of paying money to recycling agencies for procuring and recycling waste for their regulatory obligations, they are planning to sell their waste over here and making money out of it.
I am not even opposing their move. Let them do it if they want to. This country is already a shit hole and there are a lot of other bigger problems to worry about. Dumping of more e-waste is least of our worries. I am just questioning the hypocrisy of how Apple is trying to project it.
Also what is Apple's definition of affordable. This is the same company that dumped unsold iPhone 4/4s stocks from other countries and sold them at premium prices.The "affordable" iPhone 6 SE costs 40K. So what makes you think that these "affordable" refurbished wares would be any more "affordable" than that? If required, they would even make them "affordable" by making all other models not so affordable.
I on the other hand refuse to pay for crappy products that carry a premium, I would gladly pay any reasonable price given that it meets my expectations of corresponding quality and functionality.
I don't want the updates beyond a point on any device. I have said it several times before. Those very updates are what made a working device obsolete. I didn't get any new features that I wanted from those update. I lost functionality that I had before. In IOS6, the speaker volume was audible enough to understand speech. After iOS7 update, ear buds became necessary. On speaker its just teeny weeny noise to just show that the speaker functional.
I had to update the OS because, apps that need to synch data like Facebook, mail stopped working if I don't. The app will open, but the sync will not succeed. Once the OS is updated, it would start working again. In fact, I would only update whenever this happens. If not for this issue, this device will still be on IOS6.
Call it what you may, but I have used a variety of products from Apple over last 12 years and I am yet to see a single "stable" device as you seem like to call them. Every Mac OS/iOS device that I used has crashed or frozen at least a few times and there is not a single exception to this. Just because you didn't face any issues doesn't mean they are flawless devices.