News Government foils Apple's plan to dump used iPhones in India

Apple is providing a plan in the US which makes subscribers get the latest iPhone when it is launched. So they need to dump the 1 year used ones somewhere.
I know this, i'm calling out the govts pretext.

If a new phone becomes waste in "few" years, these refurbished wouldn't take those "few" years before you throw them out.
One year earlier. Big deal. This is a lame ass reason to protect a lobby.

what were the terms used, will make mince meat of make in india.

lol, as if make in india is only about phones. It's about much more.

The high prices are not government's fault. Its Apple's fault if they sell devices 4X the manufacturing cost.
Am not sure about that. $400 for the SE includes profits for retailers to sell in the US. So the wholesale price is much less.

How much is duty on phones. 10% little over. These guys import in the tens of thousands.

I see it as markup. That is why its as high. How long for though.
 
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So is selling refurbished phones really such a good idea keeping that in mind? iPhone has already lost its novelty factor and on top of that, if the first group knows that there are refurbished units are in circulation and anybody get them cheap, their own purchase would have no value and they will look for something else to buy. And if the first group stops buying, the second group would have no reason to buy them. The only group it would be attractive to would be the last group and I doubt there would be many of them to offset losing their main market.
Eh ? now you are suggesting that its not a good idea for Apple to be doing this when Apple itself is making the application which got refused, twice (!)

There are many who will buy an iphone in the 20s or 30s. Apple knows this only too well and that is why they're trying to bring them here.

This posing with an iphone only happens in countries that don't have contracts. If there were no contracts in the west I doubt iphones would sell any where as many as they have. In fact they would cost as much to begin with.

when people come calling only the ones on contracts have the flagships, the others have moto G's.

Its an iPad and its a commonly reported issue after the iOS7 upgrade.
heh, io7 was buggy.[DOUBLEPOST=1462605164][/DOUBLEPOST]
Is no one going to discuss impact of dumping old phones (and other electronics) in third world countries? Wasn't that Apple's plan here?
You make it sound like its garbage. The idea of more affordable products does not strike you. why ?
 
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Is there any reliable data that suggests refurbished phones emit more radiation than the newer ones? (irrespective of make).
I have never heard any reviewers who mention this figure.

If no, Apple should apply again or go to SC.
They will.

BTW there are lots of people selling refurbished Apple phones by other means like ebay, olx anyway. So only stopping Apple from selling refurbished phones directly, is like depriving the end user of the Apple care services and peace of mind,in spite of paying a comparable amount. Apple should be allowed to sell refurbished phones IMHO.
yep, you have to go to ebay use references, take risks. Instead of just walking into a store and getting the benefits of buying with warranties.

These are hurdles put in place to protect domestic sellers. yes there will be people who circumvent things but they are not enough in number to be a threat.
 
Eh ? now you are suggesting that its not a good idea for Apple to be doing this when Apple itself is making the application which got refused, twice (!)

I am saying that they are doing this despite the involved risks because of the potential gains. They apparently spend quite a bit of money to meet their recycling obligations. If these refurbished goods they sell count towards their recycling targets, they will be making money instead of losing while also dumping their waste over here. They will of course be losing customers for the brand new products and they would know it quite well. But then they are already seeing that the market is quite limited. In fact, as I said in another post, iPhone's have already been becoming quite commonplace and recently, I have been seeing them mainly in the hands of cab drivers than anybody else. I have personally seen instances of people counting out iPhone as an option solely because of the reason. These days, the larger plus series models are a differentiating factor, but

This posing with an iphone only happens in countries that don't have contracts. If there were no contracts in the west I doubt iphones would sell any where as many as they have. In fact they would cost as much to begin with.

The posing is very prevalent in US itself. $200 is quite a bit of money for a contract phone. Most cheaper phones cost nothing or at most $50 - 100 under contract. So a $200 phone is somebody only the "rich" can afford and that's how a lot of posers lined up for it in US. What was the first thing that Apple fanboi's used to retort with when somebody criticizes the iPhone? "You are too poor to afford it". iPhone's very business model is based on it. You are looked down upon for not owning an iPhone or even if you are not upgrading it year after year. An iPhone 6s poser would treat a iPhone 4s/5/4s user with disdain and to be beneath themselves.

Further, there are many over there who are under the delusion that iPhone is 100% american phone. my sister has a few dumb colleagues who refuse to even believe that many of the iPhone parts are sourced from other companies and that the phone itself is manufactured in Chinese factories. To them, its a 100% american phone and its a display of patriotism to have it.

You make it sound like its garbage. The idea of more affordable products does not strike you. why ?

Because it is garbage as a matter of fact. There are people on the streets who would rummage though the daily garbage that is thrown away from homes and eateries to find bits and pieces that they can eat or stuff that they can sell. But it does not stop you from calling the stuff that you throw out as garbage, is it not? Its the same thing. From Apple's perspective, this is stuff that they cannot sell in most other countries and hence to them its garbage. Its a different matter that in our country, we have people who would still want to pick from this garbage if they are getting it cheap. Its not a matter of refurbished goods either. Even the iPhone 4/4s stocks were dumped by Apple in India after the newer models came out everywhere else because nobody would would want them or at least pay a premium for them. In India they charged fairly premium prices for the outdated models.

Microsoft too has done the same thing. After XBOX 360 newer revisions that were less prone to RROD hit the market, nobody wanted the older revisions in other markets. So they dumped them all in the Indian market and made sure that newer revisions are not going to be available in India for any of the variants.
 
I am saying that they are doing this despite the involved risks because of the potential gains. They apparently spend quite a bit of money to meet their recycling obligations. If these refurbished goods they sell count towards their recycling targets, they will be making money instead of losing while also dumping their waste over here. They will of course be losing customers for the brand new products and they would know it quite well. But then they are already seeing that the market is quite limited. In fact, as I said in another post, iPhone's have already been becoming quite commonplace and recently, I have been seeing them mainly in the hands of cab drivers than anybody else. I have personally seen instances of people counting out iPhone as an option solely because of the reason. These days, the larger plus series models are a differentiating factor, but
If they can offset losses then that is sound thinking. Would they be losing customers for new products ? take the long term view. Some one that got a second hand apple and liked it is going to aspire to a new one later on. So i don't see any loss rather potential recruitment. market isn't limited, if the price is right, if more options are available then there is a very healthy, in fact cut throat market for these devices right now.

The posing is very prevalent in US itself. $200 is quite a bit of money for a contract phone. Most cheaper phones cost nothing or at most $50 - 100 under contract. So a $200 phone is somebody only the "rich" can afford and that's how a lot of posers lined up for it in US. What was the first thing that Apple fanboi's used to retort with when somebody criticizes the iPhone? "You are too poor to afford it". iPhone's very business model is based on it. You are looked down upon for not owning an iPhone or even if you are not upgrading it year after year. An iPhone 6s poser would treat a iPhone 4s/5/4s user with disdain and to be beneath themselves.

Further, there are many over there who are under the delusion that iPhone is 100% american phone. my sister has a few dumb colleagues who refuse to even believe that many of the iPhone parts are sourced from other companies and that the phone itself is manufactured in Chinese factories. To them, its a 100% american phone and its a display of patriotism to have it.
These are outliers. A $200 phone on contract when everything else is $100 means only $100 more. Remember its the upfront all at once cost they cannot handle. if these people were as rich why don't they buy outright. That would impress me more. Oh, but they won't do that. There is an interesting stat here, only 4% of luxury cars are actually owned, the rest are all leased. So when somebody shows me their flashy car i ask them that question and they forget their pride quick. Good reasons to lease, if you drive the car out the showroom it lost half its value.

So there is no pretension here, contract phones make flagships more affordable. Whether its sound economy is an entirely different question. If you want and desire any product then there are ways to have them.

Because it is garbage as a matter of fact. There are people on the streets who would rummage though the daily garbage that is thrown away from homes and eateries to find bits and pieces that they can eat or stuff that they can sell. But it does not stop you from calling the stuff that you throw out as garbage, is it not? Its the same thing. From Apple's perspective, this is stuff that they cannot sell in most other countries and hence to them its garbage. Its a different matter that in our country, we have people who would still want to pick from this garbage if they are getting it cheap. Its not a matter of refurbished goods either. Even the iPhone 4/4s stocks were dumped by Apple in India after the newer models came out everywhere else because nobody would would want them or at least pay a premium for them. In India they charged fairly premium prices for the outdated models.

Microsoft too has done the same thing. After XBOX 360 newer revisions that were less prone to RROD hit the market, nobody wanted the older revisions in other markets. So they dumped them all in the Indian market and made sure that newer revisions are not going to be available in India for any of the variants.
I find this a biased argument amplified when you use a hot word like garbage. People sell used goods on various fora including this one. Are they selling garbage. Are the people that buy something second hand beggars. C'mon.

If something you don't want can find a good home then isn't the life of the good being extended instead of either doing nothing or being thrown out because you don't want or need it anymore.

Rather what i'm sensing here is a stigma for anything that isn't brand new. Second hand is not good.

And to turn that into a business ie for a corporate to do it is something immoral.

Is this a cultural thing because in other countries, second hand means you can get what you want for less. makes good sense if you are satisfied and in your words earlier, VFM. Pro consumer.

is there any govt report on this decision which details thier arguments, all i got was some statement from a minister which is little too short. Hypocrisy. We did not have problems buying used aircraft carriers from other countries since independence. Companies introduce 'new in india' technology just because others have moved on and its cheaper therefore affordable and ultimately profitable for whomever undertakes to bring that technology to India.
 
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Used goods and refurbished goods are different things. Used goods are things that the owner used for any length of time from a day to a few years, but no longer needs for whatever reason. Refurbished goods is in most cases is stuff returned because of defects and quality issues Sometimes, stuff can be both of those things because the refurbished item may be something that was exchanged for a newer version, or thrown or given away for recycling.

Both used goods and refurbished goods can be garbage. Garbage simply refers to stuff that you no longer want and want to get rid off in some manner. The means can be anything from selling it off for cheap, giving it way or even throwing it away. Also, stuff that is garbage to you is not necessarily garbage to others. That is why there are people go dumpster diving. Its not just food that people look for and find in dumpsters. In US and many other countries, people go dumpster diving to find anything form working electrical appliances and computers to cars or even other salvageable stuff like spare parts. But at the end of the day, it was still thrown way there because it was garbage to its previous owner.

To add to that, garbage does not need to be used or refurbished goods. A perfectly unused book on Windows 3.11 can be garbage too in 2016 and you may end up either throwing it way or selling it to the paper and plastic collector by the Kilos.
iPhone 4 /4s stocks were garbage for Apple after 5s released. They can pay somebody to recycle them or dump them in some 3rd world country like India especially since they can make some decent money out of it in the process.
 
Lastly, I don't think the refusal to allow them was because of the stigma of used goods or something like that. Whether its brand new or refurbished, its going to become e-waste that needs to be tackled.

Apple gets to kill several birds with one shot. They meet their US market recycling obligations and instead of paying for recycling, they get to make money.

Some of the other companies may have have assembly lines with various degrees of work done in India. So they are paying taxes, providing jobs and in some ways being made to give back to the country while Apple is not doing anything.

In addition, how long is a person likely going to use a brand new phone like an iPhone 7 or may be even some other brand new phone compared to a refurbished iPhone 5. The later is going to be obsolete much sooner than the former. The brand new items are likely to have a longer span before becoming obsolete.

So what is the country getting in return for the trouble?

I think a reasonable middle-ground would be make the manufacturers responsible for recycling of e-waste in India too.
 
They used the brand name that they already had and targeted non tech savy (novice) users and used marketing campaigns to draw on their attention. The general pattern and gist of such marketing to sum it up is "You are an idiot if you are not using our products".

Nicely put!

One advice: Don't get too worked up if someone doesn't agree with your view. Tone down the intensity in the language a notch. This is general forum. Enjoy the discussion. Opinions are like a*s*h*les. everyone has one:D
 
Used goods and refurbished goods are different things. Used goods are things that the owner used for any length of time from a day to a few years, but no longer needs for whatever reason. Refurbished goods is in most cases is stuff returned because of defects and quality issues Sometimes, stuff can be both of those things because the refurbished item may be something that was exchanged for a newer version, or thrown or given away for recycling.
Not always. I picked up a refurbished thinkpad from abroad a while back for half the price of new. it most likely was corporate and got depreciated. Some company fixed it up and i got nearly 6 years out of it.

Both used goods and refurbished goods can be garbage. Garbage simply refers to stuff that you no longer want and want to get rid off in some manner. The means can be anything from selling it off for cheap, giving it way or even throwing it away. Also, stuff that is garbage to you is not necessarily garbage to others. That is why there are people go dumpster diving. Its not just food that people look for and find in dumpsters. In US and many other countries, people go dumpster diving to find anything form working electrical appliances and computers to cars or even other salvageable stuff like spare parts. But at the end of the day, it was still thrown way there because it was garbage to its previous owner.
What is wrong with buying a refurb ?

I have always wondered why they were not available in India. I know the answer now, many years later. Lobbies that are trying to protect their bottom line.

To add to that, garbage does not need to be used or refurbished goods. A perfectly unused book on Windows 3.11 can be garbage too in 2016 and you may end up either throwing it way or selling it to the paper and plastic collector by the Kilos.
iPhone 4 /4s stocks were garbage for Apple after 5s released. They can pay somebody to recycle them or dump them in some 3rd world country like India especially since they can make some decent money out of it in the process.
Good for them but why is the person who wants to buy such goods being denied.
 
Some of the other companies may have have assembly lines with various degrees of work done in India. So they are paying taxes, providing jobs and in some ways being made to give back to the country while Apple is not doing anything.

So what is the country getting in return for the trouble?

I think a reasonable middle-ground would be make the manufacturers responsible for recycling of e-waste in India too.
Does this apply for other companies though who also just sell here ?

heh, maybe that is the cue the govt has given by saying dumping.

Round 3 is about to begin. They will just pass the costs on to the customer.

Result is the cost of devices that costs more than they should and consequently sells in lower numbers than would otherwise upset the others. Now its no threat to anybody.

In addition, how long is a person likely going to use a brand new phone like an iPhone 7 or may be even some other brand new phone compared to a refurbished iPhone 5. The later is going to be obsolete much sooner than the former. The brand new items are likely to have a longer span before becoming obsolete.
They will be selling year old models in addition to others. Apple supports their devices for at least 4 years.
 
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I hate the Indian Govt for acting like a big brother deciding what I as a consumer wants / chooses.

If I want to buy a cheap used Apple iPhone, what right does the Govt has to refuse such an arrangement?
Tomorrow Govt will also limit the usage of Olx and Quikr? Because they are also selling used goods, and people can "dump" their American bought iPhones in India?
Stupid Marxist philosophies ...

This is nothing but the result of Indian companies like Micromax and Lavas lobbying hard because they believe this will eat into their "higher end" models where the margins per piece are better.
 
I believe in having a free market where it is left to the consumer to choose whether they want to buy used iphones or not.Govt regulation makes no sense.
 
Look at the flip side of the argument.

Examine the strongest argument in favour of the govts decision. That it sets a precedent and any company can also do the same in any industry. For the moment ignore lobby & environmental concerns.

How will it affect the brand new market ? will you get the latest products of a brand at all. All those new flagships usually show up a month or so after being launched abroad. In a market where second is allowed and the price differential is half what a flagship goes for. What is the incentive to offer the latest and greatest ? presently last years flagship brand new does not go for half the price, never did. it goes for 65%. So there is a disincentive to buy last yr's brand new and instead consider the latest. second hand via online fora is always possible but i feel this is a minority.

There will always be people who want the latest but the numbers will be lower, whether lower than currently i'm not sure. But if it is lower then the asking price goes up. Does it also mean the price stays up. No, it just means you get the latest 9 months later at a price you can afford. So this leads me to think you won't get the latest and greatest because it wont make sense to offer them at launch time worldwide but rather to defer the release.

or does it mean the latest flagship in India sells for less than it does elsewhere ? we get more of a US price instead of the indian price. more competition means lower prices.
 
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- Apple is clearly not Interested in manufacturing in India
- They will sell Refurbished phones in the affordable range and they are not at all interested in less pricing for India
- Will think about reducing prices of accessories
- ApplePay will come soon to India.


Overall, Vikram nailed him! First time i liked a NDTV interview! :p
 
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You should've appended it to already running Thread,
AFAIK his present tour hasn't been very successful, negotiations will follow I guess ; in the current scenario, if the deals don't materialise, Apple has to lose much more than India per se IMHO.

BTW The best joke running in the circles was :
Cook feels his India visit was successful because he learnt, how Altaf Bhai in Kurla unlocks any iPhones for mere 500 bucks !
 
Techenclave has become so boring now a days. No one even bothers to comment.
Is it surprising? It will take just 2-3 posts before it turns into a flame war about iphone vs Android, why India is a bad place and it deserves all the things not only Apple but everyone is doing or even why talk about apple doing this when Samsung is selling downgraded (processor-wise and screen) versions of their flagship phones or even this is to protect some lobby, Ambani's Lyf Phone I guess. All this and more can be found on this thread:
https://www.techenclave.com/communi...n-to-dump-used-iphones-in-india.179460/page-3

So no point in going over that all over again.
 
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