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Quasar
Help: Water Pressure System and Water Softener for Home
- Thread starter soulweaver
- Start date
The lab report came. The results of Aquasol is completely off. It said 6ppm whereas the actual hardness as per lab report is 60ppm.
Even in the second method, it indicated 25ppm(one drop to change blue). Therefore your recommended brand is not accurate for sure but gives some ballpark number only at low hardness water. For very hard water, the difference in estimate would be very high and not reliable per se.
To all forum users - This is what happens when you go with random internet stranger recommendations. Always use your own research based of the inputs given and don't go blindly with such recommendations.
Further to the lab test report, its very clear that you are affected by Dunning Kruger effect.
Even in the second method, it indicated 25ppm(one drop to change blue). Therefore your recommended brand is not accurate for sure but gives some ballpark number only at low hardness water. For very hard water, the difference in estimate would be very high and not reliable per se.
To all forum users - This is what happens when you go with random internet stranger recommendations. Always use your own research based of the inputs given and don't go blindly with such recommendations.
Then there is no user error. It must be your error to think I tested some thing else when in fact I tested it appropriately.
Further to the lab test report, its very clear that you are affected by Dunning Kruger effect.
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Quasar
When there are so many satisfied users it's curious how it didn't work for you. I still maintain it was user error. There is no way it can be this much off. And get this folks he does not even own a test kit. His vendor did one test. That is the sum total of this characters experience with this product
Three tests are recommended. You never mentioned if you did that
This is all your opinion based of a false result.
What is your water hardness out of the tap. We don’t even know that yet
Earlier I posted a video here of a guy using a water softener using aquasol and it worked perfectly.
You are going to need to do several tests with a water softener. You can go for your lab reports at how much was it a pop? lol
The rest of the world will continue with a tried and tested product and benefit from the savings which these products do well enough.
You were whining about hard water deposits. So tell me which water sample should you test in that case? Water entering the softener or water leaving
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Doesnt matter who owned the kit. It was an aquasol kit having two methods to test. I have a video as well from the vendor himself doing the test and I did it by myself. I have lab reports to prove that Aquasol is off by a lot. For that matter bionix as well.When there are so many satisfied users it's curious how it didn't work for you. I still maintain it was user error. There is no way it can be this much off. And get this folks he does not even own a test kit. His vendor did one test. That is the sum total of this characters experience with this product
Three tests are recommended. You never mentioned if you did that
This is all your opinion based of a false result.
What is your water hardness out of the tap. We don’t even know that yet
Earlier I posted a video here of a guy using a water softener using aquasol and it worked perfectly.
You are going to need to do several tests with a water softener. You can go for your lab reports at how much was it a pop? lol
The rest of the world will continue with a tried and tested product and benefit from the savings which these products do well enough.
You were whining about hard water deposits. So tell me which water sample should you test in that case? Water entering the softener or water leaving
We did do three tests. One by vendor and 2 by myself(one in each method of the test kit). Vendor indicated less than 25ppm, i got less than 25ppm in the first method and 6ppm in the second method. So you can keep recommending whatever you want. I am not relying on Aquasol. Already shared the reports to some of the water experts to identify the root cause of the limescale deposits which you clearly have no idea of. You even indicated the water hardness would be more than 250ppm if i have limescale deposits. You clearly got affected by Dunning Kruger effect as I mentioned earlier and needs to learn a lot more to become a veteran in this field.
You still keep asking the same question which water I tested. I have responded already in my earlier posts. You may kindly refer the same.
You were smart enough to not ask the water report that I have which shows your intentions is to defend aquasol and not at all troubleshoot or analyze why Aquasol would have shown a different results.
It is due to a confirmation bias or you are affiliated with them which you are not transparent about.
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Quasar
It does because you can't do any more testing since you don't own any test kits.
Aquasol has a far larger inventory of products compared to Bionix meaning they have been in the field for longer. That's the reason to recommend them.
It is far simpler for everyone concerned to order a kit off Amazon and do as many tests as needed with results immediately avaliable as opposed to dealing with any lab, waiting for the result. Having to go back again and pay for each subsequent test.
So yes I am going to continue recommending this very same company to everyone for the above benefits. And write off your experience as an aberration
Why don't you order a kit and test it again. You are going to have to do this on a regular basis. Or you want to go to the lab every time?
Root cause is an excess of salts by magnesium and/or calcium that cause hardness. Pretty basic and doesn't need an expert.
And what did the kit say was the hardness. Untreated obviously. You never told us.
Untreated water hardness is 400ppm.
Root cause is excess salts due to magnesium or calcium?. What a joke. The lab test report says the calcium and magnesium levels and corresponding chloride levels are well below the low range of acceptable limits for a drinking water ISO standard as expected for a softened water. So clearly you have no clue when you say its due to calcium or magnesium.
Below is from chatgpt:
A water softener removes hardness-causing minerals, like calcium and magnesium, from water. This process, often using ion exchange, helps prevent limescale buildup in pipes and appliances, improves soap efficiency, and can extend the lifespan of certain appliances
- Hard Water:
Hard water contains high concentrations of minerals like calcium and magnesium, which form scale (a mineral deposit) when heated.
- Ion Exchange:
Water softeners utilize a process called ion exchange, where the hardness-causing minerals are replaced with sodium or potassium ions.
Sir, i am not ordering that kit again which is clearly not reliable. I would rather spend for another lab report after making changes to the setup as required. These kits not accurate, you can write off or write back, doesnt bother me.
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Quasar
How did you measure this? Lab or aquasol
Obviously I'm referring to untreated water. And its Mg & Ca salts that cause the hardness. Any VIII kid can tell you that
Good idea because I have zero confidence in your testing skills.
Lab testing is not a choice for many others. So they don't test at all and not knowing can lead to expensive fixes if it's a front loader. Hence recommending the kit.
See how everything works without issues. His kit also has two ranges.
His hardness exceeds 500ppm which he estimates by counting the extra drops using a kit whose max is 500ppm
That's why I recommend the larger range 1000ppm kit when testing initially
And then he tests the softened water and knows his softener is working as intended
No rocket science at all here
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400ppm was noted from the lab report from untreated water.
You are saying untreated water is causing limescale despoits?. You first said calcium amd magnesium salts cause limescale deposits then I said the levels of these two minerals in the softened water below the drinking water limit and now you are saying you meant untreated water.
What you originally meant to say was calcium and magnesium salts in the untreated water cause limescale deposits?.
Read this: only softened water is sent to the taps. Untreated water is not. I repeat untreated water is not sent to the taps. Also water softener has reduced it well below the limits. I repeat calcium and magnesium are below the limits in softened water.
So you don't have clue what you are talking about and keep saying you meant that or something else when probed further. I made my point clear. Water softener installed, Aquasol kit shows 6ppm/less than 25ppm whereas lab report shows 60ppm but limescale deposits still found in taps.
If anyone reaches in DM i can share the full uncut video of the testing performed by the vendor with Aquasol as well as the lab report. Therefore you don't need to have confidence in my skills, its done by experienced professionals working in the field. Aquasol is simply not reliable.
Randomly sharing some kent video is not proving anything. Like me no one has compared the lab report with Aquasol testing results. If there are, please share that.
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Quasar
Why didn't you also test this with Aquasol? The kit you used could do it. It would have been an extra data point.
Untreated water with excess Ca & Mg salts is causing limescale deposits.
Yeah I had to clarify untreated water obviously
Right, because why are you mentioning treated/softened water when asking about limescale deposits? There won't be any because its been treated
Yes
That's fine
By water out of the taps I was referring to untreated water as if you didn't have a softener. I suppose this is where you got confused. Since out the tap for you is already treated water.
a) an error was made when you tested with aquasol
b) 60ppm doesn't cause limescale deposits. It's soft water.
And I've posted a video by a layperson who had zero issues using this kit with a softener. Did you watch the video I posted?
There is definitely a mistake somewhere in your testing given the results you got. I can't say where.
Off by one order of magnitude? Your vendor should approach the seller he got the kit from and demand a refund or a replacement. Let us know how that exchange goes.
Sure it is. Clearly shows the kit works well enough for anyone with a water softener. And that youtuber knows that because all the problems caused by bathing with hard water went away after using the softener and thanks to this kit he also knows why and by how much.
There was no need to get an independent lab report done as the softener was working as intended. Has continued to do so and for the next upgraded version he got later as well.
The method & chemicals used are proven. Accurate and affordable
https://www.researchgate.net/post/W...and_its_main_constituents_Ca2_and_Mg2_in_situ
What's ironic here is your lab likely used a similar test to measure the hardness.
What does your video prove? Nothing. Anyone can get it wrong. The goal here is to show it works and it does
We also have a positive review from another user here with a softener using the same testing kit.
Does @skoka123 feel the need to get a lab report or is the Aquasol testing to date adequate?
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kage
Explorer
Sorry to interject in this conversation, but I just had one question: Is 60ppm enough to cause limescale deposits?
If yes, then what ppm should we target for?
And if no, then did you figure out why you are getting them?
This would help us folks looking to get one installed!
But he is getting them, like he's mentioned.
What do you think the issue could be here?
Since that 60ppm comes from a lab test, it must be accurate.
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Quasar
60 ppm is soft water and cannot cause any scaling.
There is no universal standard here for hardness.
Anything above 120ppm is considered hard in the US
Anything above 200ppm is considered hard in the UK.
India has no standard but it's fair to say you will see scaling around 250ppm and up.
Which is why I've been banging on about this kit for ages in the washer thread. As knowing this figure allows to set a descale schedule depending on how hard or not the water.
There is no other way to test water hardness other than going to a lab. Which is exactly the niche these kits are successfully AFAIK exploiting
No idea
Input is 400ppm
Output is 60ppm
His softener is working
What I find strange is how wide the variation is in test results among the two kits.
Aquasol says 6ppm
Lab says 60ppm
Bionix says 150ppm
Aquasol is off by an order of magnitude which insane
Bionix off by 2x. Also too large
The science behind these kits is well established and the reagents used in the kits isn't that difficult to make.
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kage
Explorer
I'm not going to comment on the variations since that is something I know nothing about.
Hopefully @belictony can figure out what's causing this.
But this is very interesting.
Hopefully @belictony can figure out what's causing this.
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Quasar
The only time I see 60ppm is for one month when the monsoons are in full swing
When hardness is low you start to see some correlation with TDS.
But when it's high that link is no longer there. The TDS will typically be much higher than hardness because it's taking into account the conductivity of the total of salts dissolved.
Well not all salts form scale. Carbonates and sulphate will do it and the kit targets just the Mg & Ca ions responsible which will be available in larger quantity in hard water
So 400 - 60 is 340
What I saw with that youtuber was his softener knocked 700+ ppm to under 100. That is 600 ppm removed. His softener doesn't allow to set a target ppm. In the video only 500ppm is shownby the kit as removed. But he later clarified in the comments that he forgot to flush the output so there was still residue left. After flushing his hardness from the softened water dropped to under 100ppm and remained there until time for the next salt recharge. Given his softener was manual, the kit was absolutely essential in figuring out when to add salt. He has done lots of tests with reliable results.
But assuming the softener referred to here allows to set a target ppm and it was set to 50ppm then the lab result of 60ppm is correct.
When hardness is low you start to see some correlation with TDS.
But when it's high that link is no longer there. The TDS will typically be much higher than hardness because it's taking into account the conductivity of the total of salts dissolved.
Well not all salts form scale. Carbonates and sulphate will do it and the kit targets just the Mg & Ca ions responsible which will be available in larger quantity in hard water
So 400 - 60 is 340
What I saw with that youtuber was his softener knocked 700+ ppm to under 100. That is 600 ppm removed. His softener doesn't allow to set a target ppm. In the video only 500ppm is shownby the kit as removed. But he later clarified in the comments that he forgot to flush the output so there was still residue left. After flushing his hardness from the softened water dropped to under 100ppm and remained there until time for the next salt recharge. Given his softener was manual, the kit was absolutely essential in figuring out when to add salt. He has done lots of tests with reliable results.
But assuming the softener referred to here allows to set a target ppm and it was set to 50ppm then the lab result of 60ppm is correct.
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@blr_p I am pretty happy with the Aquasol testing. I initially got a kit and the softener unit from Ion Exchange India. Both the Aquasol and OEM kits were pretty close in measurement.
I consider anything over 50 PPM hard. The softer the water, the more is the consumption for bathing and washing utensils, but then, you need much less soap/detergent. Even using water that is less than 50 PPM of hardness over the years left hardwater stains over the shower enclosures. The excel sheet I had attached earlier gives a very clear picture of how many liters of soft water you can expect at your target salt ppm.
I can tell the difference in water softness very clearly between 50 and 100. I have a water meter connected (now defunct) to the outlet of the softener so that I know how many liters of water have been softened since the last regeneration. These days, I know how many hours of running the unit bring my softened water PPM above 50.
If that video says that the hardness dropped from 600 to 100, then the resin quantity is insufficient. Ideally, it should drop to near 0. Another way of achieving it is by reducing the inflow and opening the bypass valve.
I consider anything over 50 PPM hard. The softer the water, the more is the consumption for bathing and washing utensils, but then, you need much less soap/detergent. Even using water that is less than 50 PPM of hardness over the years left hardwater stains over the shower enclosures. The excel sheet I had attached earlier gives a very clear picture of how many liters of soft water you can expect at your target salt ppm.
I can tell the difference in water softness very clearly between 50 and 100. I have a water meter connected (now defunct) to the outlet of the softener so that I know how many liters of water have been softened since the last regeneration. These days, I know how many hours of running the unit bring my softened water PPM above 50.
If that video says that the hardness dropped from 600 to 100, then the resin quantity is insufficient. Ideally, it should drop to near 0. Another way of achieving it is by reducing the inflow and opening the bypass valve.
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Quasar
OK so how do you explain no scale formation on the heating element of a geezer used over ten years?
Wet season hardness is 60 -120ppm
Dry season 150-175 ppm
Heating water increases scale precipitate so a heating element is more likely to attract scale formation at a certain hardness that may leave little on say the wash basin
Is there something more involved here. Where water of a fixed hardness say 100ppm leaves scale at your place but hardly any at mine. I can't think of anything.
I see a little in pots, not much but definitely there.
Wet season hardness is 60 -120ppm
Dry season 150-175 ppm
Heating water increases scale precipitate so a heating element is more likely to attract scale formation at a certain hardness that may leave little on say the wash basin
Is there something more involved here. Where water of a fixed hardness say 100ppm leaves scale at your place but hardly any at mine. I can't think of anything.
I see a little in pots, not much but definitely there.
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I guess the soap reacting with the water leaves suds on the shower enclosure whereas the heating element is only exposed to and most elements have a kind of coating that prevents scale formation.
You can do a simple experiment. Take 1 liter of 100 PPM water in a bowl and boil until no water is left. Do you see any residue?
You can do a simple experiment. Take 1 liter of 100 PPM water in a bowl and boil until no water is left. Do you see any residue?
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Quasar
Then it's soap scum deposits as opposed to scale isn't it.
My contention is if your hardness is 250ppm or more the heating element is going to be scaled up
Ok. I'll descale with citric and try
I am still waiting response from the technicians from the lab. I will definitely provide the update when i get.