UserRG
Disciple
Yes renewables do scale, see France. And coal tech has pretty much matured, whereas there's a lot of improvements in renewables, esp solar panels and batteries. In fact solar is the cheapest energy atm and we get a lot of sun.
India seeks to block Chinese firms from sub-Rs 12,000 phone market
- Thread starter t3chg33k
- Start date
Skynet
Disciple
isnt that the issue ALWAYS PENNY WISE POUND FOOLISH ALWAYS LOOKING FOR SELF BENEFIT COUNTRY BE DAMNED AND THEN THEY PRETENT TO BE SO SMART.
Dude im not denying but sun doesn't shine at night SURPRISE SURPRISE , also rains and clouds are a thing ,this is the kind of thinking that led to disaster in germany where industries are being shut off or the grid failure that happened in texas because sun was covered by clouds and wind turbines stopped moving due to frost.
nuclear is not a renewable source btw and till we build enough nuclear or fusion becomes a possibility coal is the only way to go for cheap electricity , you cannot just replace these plants over night by wish full thinking like all the liberals think , it requires decades of planning and execution to achieve this
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dexterz
Adept
Come what may, I have unshakeable confidence in our politicians that they will perform their best to ensure that we stay where we are.
salian
Disciple
That's a generous assessment of Google's competitive strategy. Motorola's patent portfolio and Google's foray into phone hardware was the only reason to buy that dying firm.
Just prior to that, Google had tried to do the same with Nortel for its patent portfolio but was unsuccessful. Or rather, the incumbents were successful in preventing Google's strong entry into hardware manufacturing with an acquired patent pool.
It's all related to the Ericsson case, and the timeline matches. Ericsson's royalty demand was more than the manufacturer's entire profit margin, which is quite thin in low-end smartphones.
Till November 2014, Micromax was not paying royalties. From 2014 to mid-2015, it was paying a reduced royalty imposed by the court for the interim. From 2015 onwards it had to pay the demanded royalty and they finally came to an agreement in 2018.
Naturally in 2015 Micromax would have been looking very strongly at allied revenue streams that could offset these costs. It couldn't command the clout to make an app store that developers would pay for listing and accepting payments.
This was the time when Chinese manufacturers first came up with the idea of subsidizing low-end smartphones by making the phones into an ad-delivery system whereby the upfront cost would be lowered and the difference could be recovered later from the user. This would have looked very attractive to the strategy team at Micromax. Implementing this on low-end phones would be a no-brainer if the ads could keep phone MRP low and create a parallel revenue stream.
This is a tough situation. If you don't want to increase prices or move out of the low-end smartphone market, there are only two ways to match your competitors pricing. One is to include such ads yourself, and the other is to use alternative means like regulation to block your competitors from your market.
Micromax did try to block OnePlus as well (basis their Cyanogen partnership, but the basis could have been anything) so clearly they tried their best. In hindsight it was the Government that failed in its role to create a playing field for local manufacturers and use duties to alter consumer expectations about what smartphones can be gotten at what price.
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Skynet
Disciple
screw the politician indians need to support indian business , we need to take pride in our own things rather than do gora worshipping and taking pride in imported tag , this is a societal issue in our country where we actively look down upon on our culture and our businesses , its like 300 years of british rule screwed our brain at subconscious level this rot needs to scraped off layer by layer.
every thing will have teething and birthing issue look at intel struggling to make a GPU literally blew the arc series even after having decades of experience being a 800 billion USD company and with full baking of US GOVT.
look where tata and mahindra are now today making world class safety cars they would have not reached here today had they quit at making that shitty indica
dexterz
Adept
if you think that it was that easy then we wouldn't be where we are. threads like these are dead horse. dig em up once in a while beat em and bury em till the next one comes along. How do you define Indian business? How many large companies are 100% indian owned and if they are, are they sourcing 100% of their parts from India? Do we call a company Indian if it's just assembling parts and adding a margin while money still flows to countries like China and Vietnam etc
Unless and until self sufficiency is achieved there will be no point in banning anything as money will still trickle back via imports. The ease of setting up a business in India and China is like day and night. My father in law shared an anecdote where his friend did a comparison on setting up a Mfg factory in India and in China and how cheap and easy it was to start one in China. We are mired in red tape
Skynet
Disciple
As long as the ownership is indian , every big business is going to source parts from other places , did you know famous brazilian aerospace giant Embraer came to india to learn about making aircrafts people at HAL laughed them out of the room look where they are today and where HAL is.
we could have had Embraer in india making planes for our airlines and exporting it globally , but we just gave up and took the easy route, embraer imports engine from RR,GE and P&W and avionics are imported from Rockwell collins , Garmin etc but the IP and ownership of aircrafts and design and everything else is Brazilian.
even the tata harrier have korean gearbox which is fine till they can localise it but the design and ownership is indian which is most important and most of it is made here thus keeping mo0ney here in india creating jobs in india and thus more money for R&D and that's how you get iterative improvement.
ALSO NOTHING WORTH DOING IS EVER EASY
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dexterz
Adept
this is where we will fail with electronics. lack of infra, tech and no proper direction from the govt.
Skynet
Disciple
india has been constantly improving its ranking in ease of doing business and with all kinds of banking reforms and ease of sending money it is the best it has ever been , agreed we still lack behind china and other countries but china didn't reach where it is today in one day either if we start today we will reap benefits decade or two down the line that's how things work , if we never even try or start , then we will just look like looser and which we have been doing for decades , just thinking and giving up.
let's see , banning lower end chinese goods is a good start , the PLI schemes that are being setup are a good start to create a supply chain in india , we don't have to jump at the cutting edge we have to take baby steps first
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dexterz
Adept
no one is going to go for baby step products when cutting edge will be available at same price or slightly higher. this will just open other grey markets. I'll be happy to see if any of what you have mentioned or dream of comes to fruition in our lifetime.
Skynet
Disciple
lot's of people will , india is just not you and me here on this forum we still are a poor country and most people still buy the cheapest stuff possible, grey markets can be regulated easily after all we did regulate the grey market of chinese phone , we did ban chinese apps , point is making conjectures and giving up and feeling hopeless is not going to take us anywhere.
let's try and fail , but it's important we try instead of remaining stagnant , we will learn something , what is the worse can happen maybe you're cheap phone will die on you and company will not replace it , you can abuse india and modi ji and get over it , i bought a 60k LG phone that died within 9 months and LG stopped making phones in the meantime thus effectively making their warranty worthless and i lost 60k but hey thats life.
That's what I meant. Google bought motorola so that any android partner could use the patents. Here's how android partners praising google's move to end patent war.
Or did you mean Google kept motorola patents for Nexus or Pixel lineup only?
cellar_door
Adept
Ding ding ding.
People who think this is for the benefit of the Indian market, consumer or common person have been sleeping the past decade.
blr_p
Skilled
Fixed
NanditaRoy
Disciple
This is definitely a positive initiative , rather than depending solely on Chinese Manufactured parts , every country needs to follow the path of self dependency , rather than depending on someone to manufacture it for him .
ishanjain28
Disciple
This may have worked better if the change was gradual. i.e. Start by requiring companies to make X% of the phone locally. I can't find if this is already a provision under the make in india campaign.
As usual, A half-assed sudden move like this means, People who can't afford more expensive phones will end up paying their hard money just to get garbage in return.
Reducing dependence on foreign countries is great but I just don't see how forcing people to buy local products when local products are absolute shit and not helping companies is going to take us anywhere better? I just think what is more likely to happen is that a bunch of grifters will come in, sell garbage, swipe some money and then just shut down few years later as has happened few times already in the past.
A tangent and a example, Research institutions are already suffering because government forces them to prioritize companies under made in india campaign and those companies make horrible, inaccurate products which significantly affects research. https://theprint.in/science/substan...ian-credo-has-scientists-exasperated/1048832/
Part of it is just the nascent stage of this industry and you obviously can not expect them to make world class products just yet but the if the government is forcing people to buy local products, They should also step in and punish companies when they sell garbage that doesn't meet the specification.
Back to the original point, If they really are going to force people to buy cheaper phones from local companies, Will they also ensure that these local companies are developing significant local capacity(and hopefully, investing in R&D for the long term)? Also, Since this field is just littered with patents owned by foreign companies, How does a new company establish itself without paying good bit money just to get permission to use the patents?
Medicine industry flourished because they relaxed these patents despite the backlash from WTO and it's member countries, Will they do something like this now to boost local companies?
So far, It just looks like they are doing this so their friends and some cheaters can take money from people, sell garbage and shut down shop a few years later when either the technology moves on or the government realizes that this is not going to work and just lifts this restriction, Will have to wait and see and how this plays out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As usual, A half-assed sudden move like this means, People who can't afford more expensive phones will end up paying their hard money just to get garbage in return.
Reducing dependence on foreign countries is great but I just don't see how forcing people to buy local products when local products are absolute shit and not helping companies is going to take us anywhere better? I just think what is more likely to happen is that a bunch of grifters will come in, sell garbage, swipe some money and then just shut down few years later as has happened few times already in the past.
A tangent and a example, Research institutions are already suffering because government forces them to prioritize companies under made in india campaign and those companies make horrible, inaccurate products which significantly affects research. https://theprint.in/science/substan...ian-credo-has-scientists-exasperated/1048832/
Part of it is just the nascent stage of this industry and you obviously can not expect them to make world class products just yet but the if the government is forcing people to buy local products, They should also step in and punish companies when they sell garbage that doesn't meet the specification.
Back to the original point, If they really are going to force people to buy cheaper phones from local companies, Will they also ensure that these local companies are developing significant local capacity(and hopefully, investing in R&D for the long term)? Also, Since this field is just littered with patents owned by foreign companies, How does a new company establish itself without paying good bit money just to get permission to use the patents?
Medicine industry flourished because they relaxed these patents despite the backlash from WTO and it's member countries, Will they do something like this now to boost local companies?
So far, It just looks like they are doing this so their friends and some cheaters can take money from people, sell garbage and shut down shop a few years later when either the technology moves on or the government realizes that this is not going to work and just lifts this restriction, Will have to wait and see and how this plays out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Kaleen Bhaiya
Skilled
Reminds me of the state of startups here. Just use the relaxations given by the govt, run for 5 years and then shut down once the relaxations don't apply.
Govt just won't analyse and learn from its mistakes.
bhp91
Disciple
All this news coverage when the original article that came from Bloomberg does not even mention their source.
Looks like this is not the case:
But don't let this get in the way of all the ivory tower opinions. This time, I'm dead sure that mota bhai is gonna go for the poor persons pocket!!
Looks like this is not the case:
India has no plans to restrict Chinese mobile phone makers
There were reports on a likely ban on Chinese cos selling phones less than ₹12,000.Chinese firms cornered 63% of the Indian smartphone market, with players like Xiaomi, Realme, Oppo & Vivo taking 4 of the top 5 spots
www.livemint.com
But don't let this get in the way of all the ivory tower opinions. This time, I'm dead sure that mota bhai is gonna go for the poor persons pocket!!
Party Monger
Skilled
Bhakts losing their sh!t about china. Here Mudiji cant even commit to China crossing the border.
In his closing remarks at the all-party meeting on China on June 19, Modi said, “Na koi wahan hamari seema mein ghus aaya hai, na hi koi ghusa hua hai, na hi hamari koi post kisi dusre ke kabze mein hain (No one has intruded and nor is anyone intruding, nor has any post been captured by someone).” The remarks were carried live on television.
But normal people who can barely make a living, under this dictator's random whims turned into laws, should go and fight the chinese. When we all know there are currently no alternate suppliers for a lot of stuff that is imported from China.
Sure we can use shitty or expensive phones, but will mudiji first stop Ad@ni and Amb@ani from importing shitty phones from china and selling them to us as make in India? Maybe charity should begin at home and then people will take it seriously. Mudiji for once in his life needs to walk the talk instead of just talking and talking.
In his closing remarks at the all-party meeting on China on June 19, Modi said, “Na koi wahan hamari seema mein ghus aaya hai, na hi koi ghusa hua hai, na hi hamari koi post kisi dusre ke kabze mein hain (No one has intruded and nor is anyone intruding, nor has any post been captured by someone).” The remarks were carried live on television.
But normal people who can barely make a living, under this dictator's random whims turned into laws, should go and fight the chinese. When we all know there are currently no alternate suppliers for a lot of stuff that is imported from China.
Sure we can use shitty or expensive phones, but will mudiji first stop Ad@ni and Amb@ani from importing shitty phones from china and selling them to us as make in India? Maybe charity should begin at home and then people will take it seriously. Mudiji for once in his life needs to walk the talk instead of just talking and talking.