Indians Being Deported from USA are treated so inhumanely.

[mayank11280]

People who have zero idea on geo-politics must stop trying to give gyaan. Every single person who is talking about humanity would have made atleast one other person feel bad or act in a way that is inhuman. The funny thing is that we won't even know that we did this. A simple example is making someone of low income or worker sit on the floor of your house or making that person stand outside. Do you stand up to your parents or relatives and make a worker or daily wager sit next to them? So, please stop this lesson and gyaan on humanity blah blah.

This is a classic case of projection. No one said this but you inferred this. It is not normal to immediately reach to this conclusion. Also, this is just an ad hominem.

Those who stand up are always labelled as bad faith actors by those who daydream of standing up but never do.

As I said above:

A bit of critical self-awareness for us all will go a long way.

Regarding zero idea about geo-politics. I believe, we are thinking citizens of a democracy. Everyone has an equal right to think and voice their opinions, including you, who isn't an expert. This fetishisation of expertise only behooves an aristocracy, not a democracy. Let's talk freely and logically. Let's rise above condescension towards debate when we live in a democracy.

1. We Indians must learn not to blindly believe in whatever the masala media says.
2. We Indians must learn not to act like armchair pundits in things that we have zero knowledge of.
3. We Indians must first understand what SoPs are before getting too emotional.
4. We Indians must know that theatrics are done because people like us get emotional. Americans love drama, just like Indians. Trump has been shouting on top of his lungs that he will do this. People did not care.
5. This should not happen again? Solution is simple. Do not enter a country without valid visa, do not over extend. It is 'that simple'.


Those who are giving Columbian example of standing up. Well, that went well for Columbia right?

1. What masala? This is just a strawman argument.
2. What zero knowledge? These are facts. I believe knowing facts means knowledge. (Chaining and restraining are different terms, chaining from waist down like a high threat criminal was new). Also, we should practice first, preach later.
3. Use of military flights and so has been claimed highly unusual for a reason. It is not an emotional response but a rational response rooted in human dignity. SoPs exist but they can be wrong too. Just because something is written in rules doesn't mean that that becomes ethical. That remains within the purview of ethical criticism. "An unjust law is not no law at all".
4. Humanity is not the subject of emotion. It is rational human response. It takes immense emotional restraint and logical poise to be able to see humanity even in the worst of individuals. Let's not subvert the logic of humanity.
5. A fact remains: there is a demand for illegal migrants in US for menial jobs which the white man won't do. That demand creates supply. It is well known that Trump Estate employs illegal migrants. US needs to curb its internal demand for such docile illegal cheap labor. Rest will reduce itself.

Regarding Colombia and Indian response, they were pragmatic in backing down in the face of threats. (Change In Colombia's response was not known to me up until now) However that doesn't make US action right.

 

[Abhishek Shukla]

This is a classic case of projection. No one said this but you inferred this. It is not normal to immediately reach to this conclusion. Also, this is just an ad hominem.

Those who stand up are always labelled as bad faith actors by those who daydream of standing up but never do.

As I said above:


Regarding zero idea about geo-politics. I believe, we are thinking citizens of a democracy. Everyone has an equal right to think and voice their opinions, including you, who isn't an expert. This fetishisation of expertise only behooves an aristocracy, not a democracy. Let's talk freely and logically. Let's rise above condescension towards debate when we live in a democracy.


1. What masala? This is just a strawman argument.
2. What zero knowledge? These are facts. I believe knowing facts means knowledge. (Chaining and restraining are different terms, chaining from waist down like a high threat criminal was new). Also, we should practice first, preach later.
3. Use of military flights and so has been claimed highly unusual for a reason. It is not an emotional response but a rational response rooted in human dignity. SoPs exist but they can be wrong too. Just because something is written in rules doesn't mean that that becomes ethical. That remains within the purview of ethical criticism. "An unjust law is not no law at all".
4. Humanity is not the subject of emotion. It is rational human response. It takes immense emotional restraint and logical poise to be able to see humanity even in the worst of individuals. Let's not subvert the logic of humanity.
5. A fact remains: there is a demand for illegal migrants in US for menial jobs which the white man won't do. That demand creates supply. It is well known that Trump Estate employs illegal migrants. US needs to curb its internal demand for such docile illegal cheap labor. Rest will reduce itself.

Regarding Colombia and Indian response, they were pragmatic in backing down in the face of threats. (Change In Colombia's response was not known to me up until now) However that doesn't make US action right.

Even a tiny nation like Colombia stood up against the inhumane treatment but pusillanimity is inbuilt in India bureaucracy (and many Indian citizens) towards foreigners. Given the rise of (or recognition of) female criminals all over India these days, many would be ok with them getting 'things' done to them because they are 'criminals'. Disgusting mentality.

 

[PunkX 75]

In conclusion, I hope the deportees have a fair shot of bouncing back from this and living a better life, in the country.

 

[mayank11280]

In conclusion, I hope the deportees have a fair shot of bouncing back from this and living a better life, in the country.

This.

For power speaks. We can only play the cards we are dealt with.

Right now, Indian government should be trying to negotiate a better deportation scheme for Indians all the while securing a better strategic partnership deal WRT trade, investment and defence with the US. Which I believe are the main objectives of the upcoming visit of the PM.

 

[solo_wing]

In conclusion, I hope the deportees have a fair shot of bouncing back from this and living a better life, in the country.

This.
I heard there is counselling going on for the deportees. Some of them are in state of complete shock as they had given up their everything chasing this dream.

I hope they find strength.

 

[RaRa]

Big L to people supporting this. Yes they were illegal migrants but not criminals. They could have been sent on commercial planes and under security. Its not like they were carrying arms.
Another option & a better one would have been that India send out our planes to bring them back like few other countries did. But that will damage the ruling party's image it seems

Illegal immigrants are "criminals"

 

[prd_407]

wait till people know, what countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia do to illegal immigrants.
this shouldn't be trending, most places abide to simple rule of do crime = get penalized.
India might be an exception, where getting away with crime is so normalized by 'setting up/paying someone' that hoards are now entitled for anything.

saying this as someone whose dad's coworker was jailed up in Thailand for illegally working, with so many Indians existing some are just willing to play stupid games not knowing the rules can not be an excuse.

 

[adder]

Did any Human Rights NGO came forward against this ?

All paid activists/ protestors are out of jobs thanks to USAID being paused.

Besides human rights NGO always show selective outrage.

 

[Arigaytor]

wait till people know, what countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia do to illegal immigrants.
this shouldn't be trending, most places abide to simple rule of do crime = get penalized.
India might be an exception, where getting away with crime is so normalized by 'setting up/paying someone' that hoards are now entitled for anything.

saying this as someone whose dad's coworker was jailed up in Thailand for illegally working, with so many Indians existing some are just willing to play stupid games not knowing the rules can not be an excuse.

A lot of Indian people do seem to have a culture of not being able to operate in high-trust societies. Even people who go abroad legally still sometimes do things like leaking exam papers and violating the law while expecting to get away with just paying a bribe or something. A lot of people who are used to the culture we have can't fathom that stuff like this just doesn't work abroad where they take stuff like this much more seriously. You can see it in videos of people from our country who take stuff from places like goodwill or things that are meant for impoverished or homeless people and brag about getting free stuff. The minority of indians who behave like this after emigrating really do give the whole country a bad rep.

 

[prd_407]

A lot of Indian people do seem to have a culture of not being able to operate in high-trust societies. Even people who go abroad legally still sometimes do things like leaking exam papers and violating the law while expecting to get away with just paying a bribe or something. A lot of people who are used to the culture we have can't fathom that stuff like this just doesn't work abroad where they take stuff like this much more seriously. You can see it in videos of people from our country who take stuff from places like goodwill or things that are meant for impoverished or homeless people and brag about getting free stuff. The minority of indians who behave like this after emigrating really do give the whole country a bad rep.

Don't get started on this flexing of doing petty crimes by Indians and feeling notionally superior for exploiting the "loopholes", from swapping tyres from a rental car abroad to stealing train blankets in India, any imaginable shady act which benefits even 1$ this demographic will do it, without a second thought.

Unrelated example : people who sell clothes online in India have accepted 30-40% RTO as cost of doing business because, supposedly even the educated urban white collar employee finds its morally justified to order item on Monday receive by Thursday/Friday wear for the weekend and return citing size/fit issue, and adding salt to wound half of COD orders are doorstep returns. [It's not amazon / myntra taking loss it's your fellow Indian seller getting hammered by fees and these theatrics]

 

[TEUser2K1]

The kind of people dealing with:

Deported Jagraon woman again wants to go abroad to support family - The Tribune

Says the US security personnel were nice to them.

www.tribuneindia.com

 

[desiibond]

The kind of people dealing with:

Deported Jagraon woman again wants to go abroad to support family - The Tribune

Says the US security personnel were nice to them.

www.tribuneindia.com

lol, she has zero guilt. And our government is looking to give her and others a job? Are they legitimizing illegal ways of finding employment?

If you are jobless, just get caught by US or UK, get deported and GoI will get you a job.

 

[TEUser2K1]

lol, she has zero guilt.

She will cry a victim, very young too. Aware of all their rights and privileges, but not a single one of the duties.
The kind of people who are ready to spend 1cr, in that flight which got caught up on France, there were people who spent 80lakhs+ per member of family for dangerous dunky routes.
Kind of people one will not find well behaved in their own surroundings, but will run away for the very environment they created to cause more problems.

 

[desiibond]

80lakhs per head? Are they mad or what?

 

[blr_p]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I think they got off easy. Instead of being jailed, or detained, they are given safe passage back.

Cheaper to send them back than to house them because the appeals process can take years

 

[TEUser2K1]

80lakhs per head? Are they mad or what?

Flight sent back from France: Statements of 66 from Gujarat recorded by CID

The flight operated by Romanian charter company Legend Airlines had landed at Vatry near Paris on December 21 after which French authorities intervened to probe a human trafficking angle. The flight, with 276 passengers, landed in Mumbai on December 26.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

There were families in this group, with children. Paid 60-80L per head.

 

[rsaeon]

Socialist republic.

 

[blr_p]

No "human" should be treated the way these illegal migrants have been treated.

On what basis do you say this?

On another note, we Indians really hate Indians. We just try to find creative ways to hate others: region, religion, language, caste, class, gender; in this case the tag of "Criminal" comes in very handy.

It's not Indians saying it but the ICE chief.

As i said earlier the previous administration didn't treat them as such for political reasons. The present one does.

If a white man had overstayed his Visa permit in India and we had chained him up and sent him in military plane for theatrics, the same people justifying the inhumane treatment of fellow Indians caught up in the wrong would argue for the white man and against the state action. Let's be objective: two wrongs don't make a right.

Ok, so you cannot chain anyone up in India. In my best Jack Nicholson voice a la 'The Departed'

"We don't do that in THIS country"

No handcuffs allowed unless a case for restraints can be made and a magistrate has to sign off for it.

This as a result of abuse during the emergency period. Photos of George Fernandes in chains became iconic and rallying symbol.

So the supreme court, since they are hard core liberals thereafter pretty much banned the use of restraints in India.

How many bleeding hearts here were aware of this little nugget?

3. The price of deportation through military plane, all chained up was 5 times more than regular flights. So, that doesn't make any economic sense.

This govt isn't going for the more expensive option for fun. There must have been advantages. See if you can figure them out.

It also violates many of the human rights conventions, even Geneva convention doesn't allow such treatment.

GC applies to military not civilians. Maybe you can show some evidence that GC was violated. Can you?

Accusing governments of violating human rights is a well oiled cottage industry for spouting BS. Israel has been dealing with this crap for over twenty years now.

The only reason it works is because these allegations can only be directed at accountable governments from rule abiding countries.

To be clear the target here is the GOI according to the opposition

4. These theatrics were done to create spectacle of cracking down hard on illegal immigration.

If it slows the never ending caravan of people trying to get in then it's a good thing.

5. Other nations like Colombia refused to take back citizens if sent via military plane and chained up, though their citizens were in the wrong. India should have stood for its citizens too.

Too many. Over four times that we evacuated from Amman which is a fraction of the distance compared to the US from India.

Bottom line: According to the GOI, the treatment was acceptable. Only opposition is crying.

6. We Indians need to have self-respect. No country (until now) except India accepted such humiliating treatment.

GOI is fine with it and the matter rests there. This isn't a govt that takes anything on the chin but there is no defense when your citizens are breaking laws abroad.

 

[yugaaa]

So according to our minister this is for the optics so as to deter illegal immigration?
Then why not publicize it widely on television? I heard media houses were told not to show this on TV because I haven't seen much coverage on this .
+ I don't care what jayshankar says lol. He's a weak FM infront of Trump. Big words, no action.

Jaishankar , Modi are part of deepstate . They pledged their souls to the satan . Trump does not care

 

[desiibond]

Jaishankar , Modi are part of deepstate . They pledged their souls to the satan . Trump does not care

If you cannot debate, at least learn how to by looking at what others are saying. This is not Twitter that you put bullshit and people retweet for clicks/money.