Ok. Tell me what do you want to debate on ? If you read this thread from first and researched a bit further on what i had written and wanted to debate that would have been normal .
Indians Being Deported from USA are treated so inhumanely.
- Thread starter solo_wing
- Start date
blr_p
Oracle
Where did you hear that?
Plenty of Indian news sources posted in this thread already. Doesn't look like an embargo does it?
But you aren't disputing his answer so it stands
desiibond
Keymaster
Lol. Calling Jaishankar weak is ROFLMAO stuff. Kid who said this has no clue about how our foreign ministry is handling things. This government, unlike earlier governments who just were yes men to big player in the world, is more of 'I see opportunity, I grab it' kind of player. Look at Russia situation. We played both sides and when foreign press was asking why we are still with Russia, we told them to STFU. Our past FMs were actually weak. Whenver there is attack, they would fold hands and beg at UN asking that to stop. This FM is taking more aggressive stance. And they did bloody good job in isolating Pak on world stage.
TL;DR: This FM is not weak, they are cunning and opportunistic, exactly what we need to handle morons from West.
TL;DR: This FM is not weak, they are cunning and opportunistic, exactly what we need to handle morons from West.
Ok . So it that why China , US have such huge trade surplus with India ? China occupied India for over 40k Sq.Kms ? US needs India to counter China . So they let some trade happen with Russia and Russia needs India to counter USA and Europe . India is inevitable in the global power politics who ever is in power in India . If we talk about Africa and Pacific we have lost key our "influence "in Africa both in terms of hard power and soft power to China over the past 10 years this govt has been in power . China has covered Pacific in the past 5-6 years and overtaken American influence even with Japan , Taiwan , Australia over looking . With regard to Indian subcontinent influence the lesser said the better .
desiibond
Keymaster
Go head on with China? Do you know the power parity between India and China and dependence on trade with China? What part of opportunistic did you not understand? Even Europe and US combined are not able to stop Chinese expanding their power, you expect India to stop?
How did it go with “Forward Policy” in the 1960? Dreaming and reality are two very different things. Come back to reality. Every country is bloody worried to not start another world war. Chinese and Russian presidents are very unstable and then there is North Korea. It is not 0 and 1.
Also, Looks like you had no idea how weak India was at global stage in the past even when they had advantage. This applies to even BJP apppinted MEA teams from the past.
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He is still done a good job as FM. Our relations with GULF countries have been quite strong now.
Getting the Navy Officers on death row in Qatar out.
Building enough strong relations with Many Muslim countries that were generally unbalanced before into balancing act.
Saudis have many instances refused to come into full support of Pakistan and with UAE we have very strong relations today.
Indonesia PM refused to go to Pakistan during his recent trip to India as Republic Day even though he was scheduled to go there.
I dont totally disagree with you but there are things which are commendable and credit where due.
Emperor
Juggernaut
Indians who fought 2 wars with China will consider this as a joke .
Saudi refused to support Palestine , Yemen as well .
India was weak on a global stage ? Lol . You really have no clue the kind of power India has . While China is an industrial power , Indians are spread world wide . Indian foreign remittances are the highest in the world . This was before and now as well . India leads in essential commodities like rice , milk and many other agricultural products where we are on top . Upto 1980 we had famine in India but today we export so much of surplus .
Middle east depends on India . India does not depend on middle east . They need workers , manager , food from India . This was there before Jaishankar or Modi took over and it is still now . India is a big market for gold and the biggest market for gold from middle east is India .
So do not paint an incompetent , dishonest politician as the angel from heaven .
rsaeon
Innovator
Maybe much, much older ones but Sushma Swaraj was absolutely legendary.
Yes. She use to reply to very common people on twitter and take care of many issues.
She even helped Russian who has come during Covid and had no money to go back.
She told him you are a friend of our country and get her flights arranged.
I mean to say she was working at grass roots level too.
desiibond
Keymaster
Absolutely the most respected FM India has produced.
Bhai, what are you blabbering?
Rice or agri products or milk, Europe and NA are not even the biggest importers of these from India. You will look like a fool if you go to the west and say 'I export rice milk agri products, respect me'.
Your voice gets weightage when you speak and act in a way that countries take notice. Not just by exporting goods. This is the difference from past 10 years. And you need to have the cunning mind to deal with both sides and take advantage. India is dealing with Iran and Israel. Dealing with Russia and USA/EU. Though BRICS started back in 2009, it is only in recent years that it is expanding. We are making our presence felt and this my friend is what matters. Why do you think USA is turning blind eye though we are doing naughty deals with Iran and Russia? Is it because of our milk? Take Canada as example. It is open truth that we are taking things in our own hands (Khalistan's) and Canada could do nothing. We made Trudeau look like a fool. This is what makes MEA strong, not sending containers or milk and bags of rice. Also take Maldives as an example that we are not the type to show the other cheek when someone slaps.
Leave it, looks like you do not understand these things. You have derailed the actual conversation enough.
Back to topic:
Here is one more. Has to be a next level idiot for throwing away work permit and work in Italy to move to USA illegally and left without work now.
Another one
Out of 104, 33 each from Haryana and Gujarat, 30 from Punjab. Abundant opportunities in these states, fertile lands to get into agriculture. And our beloved congress party blames our government.
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blr_p
Oracle
The foreign ministry has always been India first.
Hah, I can name two FM's that were more consequential than Jaishankar. Weak or strong are vague terms. What counts is what they got done and how important it was.
Charan Singh whose remit was the diplomatic effort to get the world to recognise Bangladesh as an independent country and not just an evil Indian effort to break Pakistan. Winning the war was half the fight and for most people the end of the story.
The next part which was just as important was handled by the foreign ministry and doesn't get the credit it deserves. Though Bhutto storming out of the UN after Bangladesh was recognised serves as as good reminder.
Jaswant Singh for navigating the choppy diplomatic relations after the second test. His work pretty much paved the way for the nuke deal with the US.
Getting all the hostages back safe & sound save for one after the hijacking.
Is there any development in the last decade that can compare to those two achievements where India was on the ropes (boxing term) ? I don't think so.
Agreed. He can actually get business done given his background in comparison to Sushma that was an RSS pick and payback for her decades long work with the BJP. Her health was failing her so this was her last portfolio. She made a name for herself by being the hero to bring back Indians in distress from abroad but more than that was left to the foreign offuce. She could not for example handle tricky interviews, that too in English, the way Jaishankar has done.
Sushma always struck me as a bulldog. Someone you took with you to a fight.
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Getting our Airforce guy Abhinandan out within 2 days was also worth mentioning.
As many other foreign countries were convinced to pressure Pakistan.
Even China had asked Pakistanis to release him.
But Saudis might have played major role.
So lot of diplomatic efforts by foreign ministry would have played the major role.
As many other foreign countries were convinced to pressure Pakistan.
Even China had asked Pakistanis to release him.
But Saudis might have played major role.
So lot of diplomatic efforts by foreign ministry would have played the major role.
desiibond
Keymaster
Arent we giving too much credit to Charan Singh? USSR played massive role in that and they openly supported Bangladesh because USA was on Pakistan's side. US and China were the only countries who vehemently opposed this but USA relented in the end. Indira Gandhi was absolutely instrumental, far far far more than Charan Singh.
It was bad post-Pokhran. Sanctions, cut off of diplomatic ties and what not. IIRC, that era is what made us to be self-reliant as much as possible. Pokhran and post pokhran was win for our defense and interior ministries, doubt if MEA had any wins. Kandahar was really bad for MEA. What win did we have? Masood Azhar went on to kill many more Indians (2001 parliament, 2008 Mumbai, Pathankot, Phulwama). Compare this to Taj incident where we declined to negotiate with terrorists and went for the kill (internal affairs though).
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What do you expect to do to criminals. They are illegal, they committed crime and that's the punishment.
blr_p
Oracle
Indira was instrumental but you had this politico military diplomatic fusion that worked great.
I'm not sure to what extent the Soviets helped diplomatically. They would not have been against but their agreement would be cancelled by the Americans isn't it. And vice versa.
India is in the doghouse, they want into the bighouse. We're trying to find them a half way house -- Strobe Talbot
Working with the Americans and smoothing things over post-pokhran.
You don't go from pokran 2 to nuke deal for free.
Safe return of the passengers.
Yes, we had to let some out but the numbers were negotiated down by Dowal & our then ambassador to Afghanistan, vivek katju.
So we should respect China because they manufacture sex toys ? Do you even know or understand that more than 50 percent of the products imported from China could be manufactured in India cheaper ? Last 10 years MSME were destroyed systematically and we have lost a major chunk of small scale industries .
We do not have to care about exports to EU because we have bigger markets than EU to focus on . With their strict rules they make it difficult or nearly impossible to supply . The Current FM could not strike a deal with the EU on such terms .
How many countries can Indians travel to without a visa ? In fact after Jaishankar took over the count has reduced further more .
Voice gets heard when a country is financially strong . China is . We are not officially . Our economy is a parallel economy with formal and informal .
Your opinion of diplomatic relations and cunning mind is empty talk . Don't you think the Americans , Russians or Israelis have better intelligence than India ? Do they have no smart people in their country to point out that they are getting played . Amateur talk is what I infer from your post .
USA is turning a blind eye because they are fighting Russia and China from all sides . The only country which can actually match China is India . USA also supports Pakistan to counter check on India .
With regard to Trudeau .. you are naive to believe all that you read on social media ..LOL .
Any references ?
desiibond
Keymaster
Why would small businesses and distributors buy goods from another country if they get them cheaper locally? Seriously, you need to come out of dream world. Do you even know the scale of manufacturing in China and what it takes to even reach half of it? Do you even know how China reached their current manufacturing? It all started more than 50 years ago with their policy changes. Make in India was the step in right direction but it is not enough. Blaming current MEA for not competing with China clearly shows how bad your understanding is.
Earlier you are saying that India should stop importing and make local. Now you are saying that EU must be made to import from India. Dont you think that they too are looking to reduce dependency outside? EU learnt a massive lesson when they relied too much on Russia and China. They are taking steps to be self-reliant. If you are blaming our MEA for their policy changes, your understanding is far worse than what I thought it is. Btw, we are doing pretty good in exports.
US knows very well that they are being played at and they cannot do anything about it. Well, unless Trump wakes up some day with very bad mood and first news he gets is India doing something naughty. But then it would lead to major global issues. Look at the U-Turn with Mexico and Canada recently (tariffs). Btw, why are you bringing intelligence into this? India's dealings are very open, MEA directly said that they are still buying oil and other goods from Russia and they will continue to do so. We are also building a port in Iran and investing there and it is not a secret underground cave.
Are you hurt and trying to fight using this pointless blabbering because I asked you not to post hate comments? You should sit this discussion out. The way we handled Trudeau is known to everyone. Bugger ran to USA and USA released one statement asking India to cooperate and left it.
Sit this discussion out. You clearly have zero knowledge and are fully into 'I made comment without knowing, I will stand by it even if I am wrong' mode. This will be my last reply to your blabbering.
It was major push from the Soviets and from Indira. IIRC, she had traveled to many countries getting them onboards, so did they. And yes, having strong leaders to allow MEA have free hand matters a lot.
Oh yeah. I remember Jaswant-Talbott talks. Those early talks were crucial to get the deal later.
This is how it is right? You ask to release 100 when you want 20 in reality.
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