Iran's New Fighter Jet - Qahar '420'

[vivek.krishnan]

The best part is the comments section. Totally worth a read!

DailyTech - Iran Photoshops Its Stealth Fighter "In Flight"

Iran Photoshops Its Stealth Fighter "In Flight"

More fake pictures of Iranian stealth jet hit the web according to experts


The Iranian government has been bragging that it has built a super-stealth fighter jet, the Qahar 313. The first images of this fighter jet turned up earlier this month and aviation experts in Western nations were quick to point out that there's no way that the aircraft could fly.


New photographs of the fighter jet have now surfaced that have allegedly been Photoshopped to add the aircraft into the skies above Mount Damavand. The image of the aircraft appears to be overlaid on a well-known stock image of the mountain. Iran maintains that the aircraft is real and functional, and that any claims the aircraft can’t fly are nothing other than false news and Western propaganda.


Experts pointed out that the cockpit appeared to be too small to allow the pilot to properly fit into an ejection seat. Another aviation expert claims that the aircraft isn't physically large enough to carry the equipment needed to be radar evading.


John Read from Foreign Policy wrote, "The jet is so small it looks like the man is sitting in a clown car, er, clown fighter. It's seriously unlikely that such an aircraft has room to carry the avionics, radars, electronic countermeasures, heat masking gear, and, most importantly for a fighter, the weapons that make modern stealth jets effective."


Experts also point out that the images of aircraft that hit the internet lack an engine nozzle. Another telltale sign that the aircraft is fake is that it lacks rivets and bolts that are featured on all aircraft including modern stealth fighters.

 

[blkrb0t]

They are making a joke of themselves. Followed this news a few days back and couldn't stop laughing. The cockpit is so small that only the monkey, which they apparently sent to space, could fit in it.

 

[ayanavish]

True, most likely some underpaid designer ruining his Photoshop skills.

OT: Qahar anyway bombed at the box office so, they can name the next version as Dabangg 3

 

[Spacescreamer]

Why take so much pain..?
Better take the paki route.. Purchase from chinamart year end sale bonanzas.. Buy 1 Get 2 free deals.

 

[blkrb0t]

Why take so much pain..?
Better take the paki route.. Purchase from chinamart year end sale bonanzas.. Buy 1 Get 2 free deals.

They can't, and moreover China is not ready to budge too as it has no advantage in doing so. With Pakistan they can keep India in check.

 

[Spacescreamer]

Mine was a rhetorical question.

 

[ALPHA17]

Reminds me of our Tejas, it has been stuck in the development loop forever.

Better take the paki route.. Purchase from chinamart year end sale bonanzas.. Buy 1 Get 2 free deals.

China's recent Chengdu class fighters are real threats as far as I can understand. They are no longer cheap knock-offs of Soviet designs although the air-frames still borrow heavily from that school of design.

 

[LifezGooD]

Comment posted for the article .. Epic ...

"Hah! Unlikely. But if they do, just ask our followers to carpet bomb them with insults. Perhaps go to a Justin Bieber forum and say how they said he was gay or something? They'll have an army of 14-year-old girls to deal with then."
"Damn sir, that's harsh. I just wanted to send in the fleet."

 

[booo]

they are trolling at international level.

 

[madara_uchiha]

Reminds me of our Tejas, it has been stuck in the development loop forever.



China's recent Chengdu class fighters are real threats as far as I can understand. They are no longer cheap knock-offs of Soviet designs although the air-frames still borrow heavily from that school of design.

they kind of still are,the same airframe coupled with inferior avionics make for a inferior plane platform.look at j10,they copied the basic fuselage ,but instead of the tailed cropped delta wing,they choose a simple delta with canards configuration,proly cus they coudnt handle the instability.same with j 20,chose canards,messes with its rcs.clearly they dont have an advanced understanding of planform alignment.the rus and americans have come up with some fantastic designs,the pakfa even employs lerx in front of its chines for agility.the chinese may be calling their planes indegenous,but they are still copies at best.

 

[ALPHA17]

they kind of still are,the same airframe coupled with inferior avionics make for a inferior plane platform.look at j10,they copied the basic fuselage ,but instead of the tailed cropped delta wing,they choose a simple delta with canards configuration,proly cus they coudnt handle the instability.same with j 20,chose canards,messes with its rcs.clearly they dont have an advanced understanding of planform alignment.the rus and americans have come up with some fantastic designs,the pakfa even employs lerx in front of its chines for agility.the chinese may be calling their planes indegenous,but they are still copies at best.

You do understand that Canards are integrated into the aircraft design to add instability, right.

And the design of the same is inspired by the newer generation of aircraft like SAAB's JAS-39 'Gripen', Israel's cancelled Project Lavi and Dassault's Rafale.

You are highly ignorant of the Chinese capability to copy technology, they stole all the data required to build a helicopter engine from UTC (Sikorsky and OTIS guys).
How US software ended up powering Chinese assault helicopters | Ars Technica

Even if your allegations that the Chinese avionics are poor, at-least they have the capability of producing it in their country, in events of war this means we shall attrite much faster than the Chinese who have the capability to replace / replenish their aircraft.

At maximum I expect the pieces sold to Pakistan will be a Monkey Edition of the aircraft.

 

[madara_uchiha]

You do understand that Canards are integrated into the aircraft design to add instability, right.

And the design of the same is inspired by the newer generation of aircraft like SAAB's JAS-39 'Gripen', Israel's cancelled Project Lavi and Dassault's Rafale.

You are highly ignorant of the Chinese capability to copy technology, they stole all the data required to build a helicopter engine from UTC (Sikorsky and OTIS guys).
How US software ended up powering Chinese assault helicopters | Ars Technica

Even if your allegations that the Chinese avionics are poor, at-least they have the capability of producing it in their country, in events of war this means we shall attrite much faster than the Chinese who have the capability to replace / replenish their aircraft.

At maximum I expect the pieces sold to Pakistan will be a Monkey Edition of the aircraft.

you expect j10 to sport rss and sophisticated flcs?that leads me to believe its a stable design.plus my point about the j20 stands,its the one instance that requires the presence of chines and trapezoidal wing designs that chinese fail to come up with,instead they have chosen a compound delta with canards configuration,its stealth is likely to be worse than the pak fa,which might mean its not stealthy enough at all,considering the pakfa is expected to have an rca of 0.5m2.although we arent doing original developement either,not at the the present stage at least,what with the lca and amca,our own designs lie in the future.

 

[ALPHA17]

you expect j10 to sport rss and sophisticated flcs?that leads me to believe its a stable design.plus my point about the j20 stands,its the one instance that requires the presence of chines and trapezoidal wing designs that chinese fail to come up with,instead they have chosen a compound delta with canards configuration,its stealth is likely to be worse than the pak fa,which might mean its not stealthy enough at all although we arent doing original developement either,not at the the present stage at least,what with the lca and amca,our own designs lie in the future.

First things explain what is RSS.

Yes I expect the Chinese to have reverse engineered enough to gain a working knowledge of FLCS systems.

Your SMS lingo inflected post is a pain to decode but anyway, you state that the design of the J20 prevents it from being a stealth fighter. Well you have merit there but I doubt the Chinese were aiming for an invisible design OR near-invisible design.

Defense analyst Carlo Kopp gave the J-20 very high praise, claiming that J-20 has full potential to achieve very high stealth performance. John Pike has written that China probably declined to participate in joint development and production of a new fifth-generation fighter with Russia given the belief that Russia stood to gain more from Chinese participation. Chinese leaders may have determined that their design was superior to the Russian PAK FA.

A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Chengdu J-20 Prototype

By January 2007 Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) and Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co. (CAC), China's two major fighter aircraft enterprises, were both reportedly working on advanced fighter designs slated to enter the PLAAF service as soon as 2015. Chengdu was focused on an enlarged twin-engine, 4th generation stealthy version of the J-10 fighter, possibly designated J-13. Shenyang was said to be focused on an entirely new 5th generation F-22-class stealth fighter, possibly designated the J-12. Both projects were believed to have benefited from Russian technologies.

Chinese Stealth Fighter / J-X / J-XX / XXJ

And the J20 borrows heavily from the Raptor silhouette, it integrates canards into the design, I am not an engineer so the veracity of the design is not my ambit but you should stop underestimating Chinese design and manufacturing capabilities.

They are far ahead of us and snubbing this is like sticking your head into the ground and expecting things to solve themselves.

considering the pakfa is expected to have an rca of 0.5m2.

Has it been tested OR revealed, no. So I would prefer to wait for the numbers to reveal the overall scenario.

Also the PAK-FA will be implemented for the IAF by HAL dubbing it is as the FGFA. From an organization that cannot develop a basic turboprop trainer.

The Chengdu will also be inducted at-least five years before the HAL FGFA even comes into service, knowing the fate of Tejas I take this with a pile of salt that the FGFA will even see the light of day.

 

[madara_uchiha]

First things explain what is RSS.

Yes I expect the Chinese to have reverse engineered enough to gain a working knowledge of FLCS systems.

Your SMS lingo inflected post is a pain to decode but anyway, you state that the design of the J20 prevents it from being a stealth fighter. Well you have merit there but I doubt the Chinese were aiming for an invisible design OR near-invisible design.


A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Chengdu J-20 Prototype


Chinese Stealth Fighter / J-X / J-XX / XXJ

And the J20 borrows heavily from the Raptor silhouette, it integrates canards into the design, I am not an engineer so the veracity of the design is not my ambit but you should stop underestimating Chinese design and manufacturing capabilities.

They are far ahead of us and snubbing this is like sticking your head into the ground and expecting things to solve themselves.



Has it been tested OR revealed, no. So I would prefer to wait for the numbers to reveal the overall scenario.

Also the PAK-FA will be implemented for the IAF by HAL dubbing it is as the FGFA. From an organization that cannot develop a basic turboprop trainer.

The Chengdu will also be inducted at-least five years before the HAL FGFA even comes into service, knowing the fate of Tejas I take this with a pile of salt that the FGFA will even see the light of day.

the fact that j20 might have sub par stealth features is kinda common knowledge,i am not really relying on conjecture or an opinion.i think the fgfa will indeed exist,hal managed to outfit su30mk's with custom avionics(i believe israeli?),3d thrust vector and canards.plus we have been manufacturing our own su30mkis for a while,for the express purpose of gaining knowledge of aircraft design,that factors heavily in choice of rafale as the winner of the mmrca competition.(we will be building 106 rafales under a licensing and technology transfer deal).plus the fgfa isnt the indian implementation of the pak fa,rather a 2 seat cockpit version of the pak fa(iaf prefers such fighters,evident from its procurement of su30mki),we will still be procuring pak fa's albeit in smaller numbers.rss means relaxed static stability,basically it allows a airframe to be very maneavourable because it does not have to overcome its inherent stability when executing any maneavour.to manage such an aircraft requires an advanced flcs,which i personally doubt chinese could have developed on their own(also they dont have any such working avionics to reverse engineer).plus no details of j20 have entered the public,so much like you i would wait for the numbers to reveal the overall scenario and not quote "ausairpower.com".i fail to see "sms lingo" in my earlier post.need i remind you that becoming needlessly rude doesnt solve things either.

 

[ALPHA17]

the fact that j20 might have sub par stealth features is kinda common knowledge,i am not really relying on conjecture or an opinion.i think the fgfa will indeed exist,hal managed to outfit su30mk's with custom avionics(i believe israeli?),3d thrust vector and canards.plus we have been manufacturing our own su30mkis for a while,for the express purpose of gaining knowledge of aircraft design,that factors heavily in choice of rafale as the winner of the mmrca competition.(we will be building 106 rafales under a licensing and technology transfer deal).

Outfitting Israeli avionics is not a great achievement. Okay the SU-30 MKI is not true 3D Thrust vectoring capable, it can only pitch the exhaust up-down on a limited angle (±15 degrees) and up-to ~32 degrees outward. If you doubt the veracity of my knowledge know that I am closely related to the IAF.

ToT does not mean we will automatically start producing Rafale's. Our defence enterprises still make mistakes for which officer's and enlisted men pay the ultimate price, bomb fuses, something so basic are known to be faulty.

It was a cold, clear February morning when Wing Commander Ravi Khanna took off from Bikaner on a routine flight commanding the Jaguar squadron. He was preparing for the Maha Vayu Shakti 2004 air exercise, the first major one in the new millennium. Except that plane and pilot exploded in an angry fireball over the desertscape.

Now, an official court of inquiry (CoI) has identified a fuse as the culprit for the February 26 mishap. Of course, no one will be punished for the failure of the fuse. Yet, the inquiry into the air crash has for the first time held the Defence Research and Development Organisation's Pune laboratory responsible for the accident. The report, which was sourced by Outlook, recreates the incident in damning detail. Soon after takeoff, Khanna followed the lead aircraft in the squadron, flying at a distance of 13 km. His target located, Khanna released the bomb. In less than one-tenth of a second, the fighter pilot and his plane exploded.

The report blamed the FBRN-4I fuse, fitted on all 1,000-pound bombs used by the IAF. The fuse had inherent design deficiencies. It didn't have any "unsafe indicators" nor were its sensors functioning. This, said the report, was what caused the explosion. The fuse was designed by the Armament Research and Development Establishment, DRDO's Pune-based lab, which had copied it from an old Soviet design.

^^ Said incident took place in 2004, at that time the Chinese were already well into manufacturing reverse Engineered Chengdu's for quarter of a century. You can extrapolate the improvement that took place in the last ~9 years.

plus the fgfa isnt the indian implementation of the pak fa,rather a 2 cockpit version of the pak fa(iaf prefers such fighters,evident from its procurement of su30mki),we will still be procuring pak fa's albeit in smaller numbers.

It is based on the same airframe and you are saying it is not the same. Way to go friend. =|

rss means relaxed static stability,basically it allows a airframe to be very maneavourable because it does not have to overcome its inherent stability when executing any maneavour.to manage such an aircraft requires an advanced flcs,which i personally doubt chinese could have developed on their own(also they dont have any such working avionics to reverse engineer).

Live in your little hole my friend.

I had quoted a reliable site (Ars Technica) saying that through diplomatic and trade guile the Chinese state owned Aviation Industry Corporation bought / copied / reverse-engineered the requisite technology that allowed it to develop the Z-10 helicopter's engines (including necessary control software) from Pratt and Whitney Canada.
How US software ended up powering Chinese assault helicopters | Ars Technica

plus no details of j20 have entered the public,so much like you i would wait for the numbers to be reveal the overall scenario and not quote "ausairpower.com".i fail to see "sms lingo" in my earlier post.need i remind you that becoming needlessly rude doesnt solve things either.

Yes, I am just going to dream up figures while quoting from Wikipedia and assorted papers. While your thoughts that the Chinese have not got anything to reverse-engineer are perfectly sane (quote-unquote without any links).
Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just as you fail to note any SMS lingo in your posts, I fail to see where I have been openly aggressive. Cheers.

 

[madara_uchiha]

Outfitting Israeli avionics is not a great achievement. Okay the SU-30 MKI is not true 3D Thrust vectoring capable, it can only pitch the exhaust up-down on a limited angle (±15 degrees) and up-to ~32 degrees outward. If you doubt the veracity of my knowledge know that I am closely related to the IAF.

ToT does not mean we will automatically start producing Rafale's. Our defence enterprises still make mistakes for which officer's and enlisted men pay the ultimate price, bomb fuses, something so basic are known to be faulty.


^^ Said incident took place in 2004, at that time the Chinese were already well into manufacturing reverse Engineered Chengdu's for quarter of a century. You can extrapolate the improvement that took place in the last ~9 years.



It is based on the same airframe and you are saying it is not the same. Way to go friend. =|



Live in your little hole my friend.

I had quoted a reliable site (Ars Technica) saying that through diplomatic and trade guile the Chinese state owned Aviation Industry Corporation bought / copied / reverse-engineered the requisite technology that allowed it to develop the Z-10 helicopter's engines (including necessary control software) from Pratt and Whitney Canada.
How US software ended up powering Chinese assault helicopters | Ars Technica



Yes, I am just going to dream up figures while quoting from Wikipedia and assorted papers. While your thoughts that the Chinese have not got anything to reverse-engineer are perfectly sane (quote-unquote without any links).
Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just as you fail to note any SMS lingo in your posts, I fail to see where I have been openly aggressive. Cheers.

1 i said the fgfa isnt the indian implementation of pak fa,but simply a 2 seat cockpit version of pak fa which will be developed by hal,what is the problem here?and yes the su30mki does have true 3d thrust vectoring,The maximum tilt angle for the SU-30mki is 32 degrees in horizontal and 15 degrees in vertical.no such thing as "outward".knowing you are closely related to the iaf and lacking basic knowledge only indicates your stupidity.

2 reverse engineering tech that helped in development in helicopter engines and helicopter control software doesnt help development of flcs for fixed wing fighters that can facilitate rss.your logic falls hard on its face.

3.i never said they dont have anything to reverse engineer,i said they dont have advanced flcs(for fixed wing fighter aircraft) to reverse engineer.

4.yes hal will be manufacturing rafales in the near future,just like it has been manufacturing su30mki's.it is a fact.
5.your knowledge on this subject seems very limited,correcting your misinformation and enlightening you is not the only thing i have to do.so refrain from using faulty logic and pompous demeanor in future.

"On 15 November 1982, outside Kunsan Air Base in South Korea, during a training mission, USAF Captain Ted Harduvel crashed inverted into a mountain ridge and died. In 1985, Harduvel's widow filed a lawsuit against General Dynamics claiming an electrical malfunction, not pilot error as the cause according to the USAF; a jury awarded the plaintiff $3.4 million in damages. However in 1989, the United States Court of Appeals ruled the contractor had immunity to lawsuits, overturning the previous judgment. The court did remand the plaintiff's claim of electrical malfunction as the cause, noting that General Dynamics and the USAF knew about chafing of instrumentation wiring, but had not disclosed initially"
does this mean general dynamics cant design a plane?fault in wiring is a pretty trivial fault ,no?accidents happen,grow up homeboy.

 

[ALPHA17]

1 i said the fgfa isnt the indian implementation of pak fa,but simply a 2 seat cockpit version of pak fa which will be developed by hal,what is the problem here?and yes the su30mki does have true 3d thrust vectoring,The maximum tilt angle for the SU-30mki is 32 degrees in horizontal and 15 degrees in vertical.no such thing as "outward".knowing you are closely related to the iaf and lacking basic knowledge only indicates your stupidity.

HAHAHA! Shows --

The Thrust Vectoring nozzles of the MKI are mounted 32 degrees outward to longitudinal engine axis (i.e. in the horizontal plane) and can be deflected ±15 degrees in the vertical plane.

My stupidity shows.

2 reverse engineering tech that helped in development in helicopter engines and helicopter control software doesnt help development of flcs for fixed wing fighters that can facilitate rss.your logic falls hard on its face.

3.i never said they dont have anything to reverse engineer,i said they dont have advanced flcs to reverse engineer.

My logic fails, don't know who you are trying to fool. If they can buy that technology clandestinely fooling an MNC in the US's backyard I don't know what I have to put up to prove that Chine can develop designs and avionics by reverse-engineering things OR for that matter buying it on the Black.

4.yes hal will be manufacturing rafales in the near future,just like it has been manufacturing su30mki's.it is a fact.

I will be waiting for that day and would see how rapidly those will be supplied to the Air Force.

Still waiting on them to get to a production tempo of replacing the ageing fleet of Alouette III's and Cheetah's with the Dhruv. The Army might end up purchasing the Eurocopter Fennec.

5.your knowledge on this subject seems very limited,correcting your misinformation and enlightening you is not the only thing i have to do.so refrain from using faulty logic and pompous demeanor in future.

KTHXBAI!

 

[pratikb]

not to get in mud sledging but few tid bits.

our sukhoi still have russian engines as we still have not developed enough tech to make blades of this jet engine.

we lack the know how about how to make blade of jet engines.


pakfa and fgfa is also cut in no. and from previous order of all as two pilots we have gone down to single seater variant in far more no.than previous.

hal is excellent in helicopter making and we have our own dhruv and gunner helicopters.

 

[pratikb]

regarding china and its fighters,
china also does not have technology and any means to reverse engineer the jet engine.
as we all know china is great at stealing tech.and even with that stolen tech,they still have no ability to make their own jet engine.

we have this stupid mindset to fear china and believe their propaganda about their achievement.

 

[ALPHA17]

hal is excellent in helicopter making and we have our own dhruv and gunner helicopters.

china also does not have technology and any means to reverse engineer the jet engine.

as we all know china is great at stealing tech.and even with that stolen tech,they still have no ability to make their own jet engine.

we have this stupid mindset to fear china and believe their propaganda about their achievement.

Who told you that the Dhruv is remotely Indian? It has a French engine, British airframe design, Israeli avionics package and a dozen other European sub-contractor based weapon systems. At the end of the day, if S#!+ hits the ceiling we will again attrite much faster than the Chinese.

And the HAL OR DRDO do not have any metallurgy department, so forget advanced alloy studies being undertaken for the turbine blades. Of any type.

Last time I checked they had 8-lane express ways headed into Aksai Chin area, while we still depend on Mule-packs for forward post / position supply.