Is India a big market a big lie?

[dpandey]

-I agree to your views .But of late i feel we as people have failed the democracy in general. We enjoy the fruits of democracy but we don't contribute to it.
-Idealistic or Good or so called Brightest of minds not taking active part in democracy is a huge concern for India or for that matter any country.

Democracy should not be seen as a moral absolute. It was a democracy that sentenced the European prophet Socrates (who faced death with dignity) to death on made up charges.

You are in an eternal game of power. People will use the tools they have. Those who have developed tools to sway public opinion will prefer democracy.

 

[Mr.J]

Anonymous sources and unspecified data sets??? This is classic propaganda, not journalism.

Why would anyone take this seriously?

Yes, we live in times when obvious propaganda is not propaganda but journalism is. I wonder why people are choosing to remain anonymous. Can't be because this administration is utterly vengeful or anything like that. Right?

You are in an eternal game of power. People will use the tools they have. Those who have developed tools to sway public opinion will prefer democracy.

Current administration has perfected tools to sway public opinion but there's no evidence that they prefer democracy.

 

[lockhrt999]

Current administration has perfected tools to sway public opinion

It probably started with people getting their news on the facebook. Facebook literally brainwashed a big chunk of population to overlook the real facts (it's a known scandal and it was all methodical). If someone presents a real facts, they are branded anti indian. This population had never consumed any practical means of news before 2014. After 2014, they all started to view the world through the lenses of Aaj tak and zee news. They don't have their own native views. The IT cell gives them a view to preach every month. If you follow internet carefully you can see the pattern. You'll see people suddenly all at once crapping on british, nehru or something on team-bhp, here and other forums.

These folks usually live in cities disconnected from the real bharat. Mentally, they live in a hypothetical world. And when real world bharat doesn't conform to hypothetical standards, they blame nehru if it's a monday. They usually blame gandhi on tuesdays and british usually suffer on weekends.

 

[Mr.J]

Not just that, there has been a pattern of data being denied, suppressed, or unavailable as well as critics and whistleblowers getting anything from disagreement to punishments over the last 10 years. Still to call this news item propaganda because people are asking to remain anonymous is just willful ignorance.

 

[blr_p]

It probably started with people getting their news on the facebook. Facebook literally brainwashed a big chunk of population to overlook the real facts (it's a known scandal and it was all methodical). If someone presents a real facts, they are branded anti indian. This population had never consumed any practical means of news before 2014. After 2014, they all started to view the world through the lenses of Aaj tak and zee news. They don't have their own native views. The IT cell gives them a view to preach every month. If you follow internet carefully you can see the pattern. You'll see people suddenly all at once crapping on british, nehru or something on team-bhp, here and other forums.

People have got a lot wiser to American influenced cable tv channel reporting that NDTV exemplified. Thank god the previous management at NDTV has taken a hike. That channel was blocked on my cable news provider ACT around 2013, Did not understand at the time why.

I discovered the difference around 2007 with newspapers where I'd get less triggered by local newspapers like DH compared to TOI. I switched over to DH at that point.

These folks usually live in cities disconnected from the real bharat. Mentally, they live in a hypothetical world. And when real world bharat doesn't conform to hypothetical standards, they blame nehru if it's a monday. They usually blame gandhi on tuesdays and british usually suffer on weekends.

Lol, I always defend the govt of the day because they are the people's choice so it's fun to have a go at the opposition. Hindsight is always 20/20. Get very few challenges back. Most just seem to parrot rhetoric and when you question it they don't know how to reply. Kinda like the present opposition.

I see a lot of similar patterns between Modi and Nehru in terms of foreign policy.

Nehru gets bashed for losing what? one third of Kashmir and then another chunk when the Chinese grabbed some of it. For the first bit, most do not understand that the Radcliffe line as envisaged by the Brits did not include J&K AT ALL. India was never supposed to get J&K. Let that sink in for a moment.

Did the Brits seriously expect a J&K Native PM to surrender his native like that forever?

The Chinese were a case of betrayal yet Nehru gets the rap not the CCP because he should have known better.

The point is whatever J&K belongs to India is down to Nehru since he was in charge. Many countries still do not accept J&K belongs to India and consider it disputed. The American stance here has not changed since the Kennedy era.

Was watching his state visit to the US in 1961. Kennedy came to the airport to welcome him. These days that would be the highest honour a foreign leader can expect. Nehru seems to have created quite an impression. More Americans showed up to meet him than any other foreign leader.

Both Nehru & Gandhi get the rap for allowing partition. Doubtful they could have prevented it because the Brits wanted it. They wanted a military outpost under their control that would act as an obstacle to a Soviet advance to the Indian Ocean. Because they knew Nehru would not dance to their tune. He was big on independence and not so much holding up the existing order. Also the present GOI stance. All this should have been music to the CCP yet it was not. India was for the CCP was seen not as independent but as an appendage of the West and not to be trusted, even to this day.

Something else people don't know. Guess what our GDP rank was at independence? SIXTH

It took over seventy-five years to surpass it.

 

[Pyception]

Look at how low our per capita GDP is in comparison to every other country on list. Why do we have to pretend as if we are rich when in terms of global economics, India is still a poor country.

 

[blr_p]

Look at how low our per capita GDP is in comparison to every other country on list. Why do we have to pretend as if we are rich when in terms of global economics, India is still a poor country.

It's not about being rich it's about promoting India's market. People only care if they can make something. This means everybody says India, India. Our perception abroad grows among the people that matter and the lame ass lefty agenda that says poor poor enters the dustbin.

Per capita is going to be lower given the number of people here. Neatly ignores the demographic dividend that India is in fact a young country that only grows old beyond 2070. In China, it's happening now. Aren't you glad you were born here and not in that country?

 

[guest_999]

What are these matters of real importance and who decides what is important to someone?

Could you give examples of a few mature democracies that vote on these matters of real importance?

For starters, ppl should start voting for those parties that actually do something about cities getting flooded every monsoon but it seems like ppl have learned to live with few weeks of inconvenience every year. On the other hand, in EU many parties/govts will suffer in upcoming elections for the heat wave situation especially if not following climate goals too closely.

Something else people don't know. Guess what our GDP rank was at independence? SIXTH

You forgot to mention the most important detail, as a British colony aka a British enterprise. And it took 75 years to surpass that level of British enterprise.

 

[blr_p]

You forgot to mention the most important detail, as a British colony aka a British enterprise. And it took 75 years to surpass that level of British enterprise.

And what if I told you India's economy was in the top two for almost two millennia and at times even the first? Whose enterprise was that under tell me?

It was only in 1815 that Britain's economy overtakes us because they essentially did a China to us. Manchester's textile mills put Indian weavers out of work. We've overtaken the UK now and well on our way to surpassing Germany and even Japan within this decade. Thanks to the stellar leadership in place since 2014

So in the time the Brits were in charge India falls from two to six. There's a reason this country was under foreign rule for nearly six centuries.

It was rich.

There was a reason we did not colonise others or go on foreign adventures because of the same reason.

Cholas is the only exception I'm aware of.

Indians don't know their history and are easily manipulated. We need to change this in the education system so the next generations understand India from Indian eyes and not some foreign or ideologically motivated interpretation. Every country has a story and that story should be written by the people of that country and not others.

 

[Mr.J]

Look at how low our per capita GDP is in comparison to every other country on list. Why do we have to pretend as if we are rich when in terms of global economics, India is still a poor country.

Exactly. Our big GDP is only because of our massive population. Anyone who blindly looks at the number without looking at underlying reality deserves to be either ridiculed or ignored.

If anyone wants to see real picture they should check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

 

[Pyception]

Exactly. Our big GDP is only because of our massive population. Anyone who blindly looks at the number without looking at underlying reality deserves to be either ridiculed or ignored.

If anyone wants to see real picture they should check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

I've started from bottom and I'm not disappointed

 

[blr_p]

Our big GDP is only because of our massive population.

GDP = private consumption + gross private investment + government investment + government spending + (exports – imports)

A massive young population causes an increase in private consumption. To consume you need to have the means

To grow you need to increase those parameters year on year which we have done and the media you patronise hides

Anyone who blindly looks at the number without looking at underlying reality deserves to be either ridiculed or ignored.

If anyone wants to see real picture they should check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

You just want to harp on negatives and ignore positives

 

[alekhkhanna]

Aren't you glad you were born here and not in that country?

Spent the last 10 days in China. Sitting in HK right now. We will not even be close to the level of infra or investments or monetary boom in China in the next 15-20 years. We keep on hearing about CCP, but the country is a mix of capitalism + communism thrown in to grow further capitalism. RMB is going very strong (and goods are not cheap, contrary to what one might expect).
The economy has stagnated this year, but China being China will find a way to move forward.
I am into medical research, and boy I can bet my bottom that China will overtake US in medical research in the next 8-10 years. The money pouring in is insane, and the public hospitals are doing a banger job. It is embarrasing comparing public hospitals in China to India.

 

[blr_p]

The economy has stagnated this year, but China being China will find a way to move forward.

Not stagnated but cratered. People think China today is like China before the pandemic. Nah, that China had the world on its side. Today's China does not.

Commies are big on infrastructure and this goes back to the cold war as its propaganda positive.

Cities that no one lives in. Roads that lead nowhere. Hospitals that no one uses. Big whoop

I am into medical research, and boy I can bet my bottom that China will overtake US in medical research in the next 8-10 years.

They're good at organ transplants. Had plenty of practice harvesting them from dissidents.

Too bad they screwed up during the pandemic. You couldn't script that

The money pouring in is insane, and the public hospitals are doing a banger job. It is embarrasing comparing public hospitals in China to India.

Where are the investments going to come from? Companies are lining up to get out of that place and they're going to end up here.

We overtake China by 2035.

 

[Pyception]

We overtake China by 2035.

True - Link

 

[blr_p]

True - Link

China's GDP figures are fake. Way lower than stated. Then again what else can you expect from China but illusion

I remember back in 2019 the migraines people here were having at the thought India could become a $5 tr economy. Good thing they aren't in charge

 

[crytt]

Exactly. Our big GDP is only because of our massive population. Anyone who blindly looks at the number without looking at underlying reality deserves to be either ridiculed or ignored.

If anyone wants to see real picture they should check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

I once read a few years ago that india paradoxically also has the world's largest slum and that a good chunk of it's population was below the poverty line.

 

[guest_999]

And what if I told you India's economy was in the top two for almost two millennia and at times even the first? Whose enterprise was that under tell me?

It was kingdoms & Mughals & it was before Industrial revolution. Also, there was no concept of India as such before British as it was all kingdoms/dynasties. Always glorifying past is not a good thing when reality says otherwise. India or more specifically Indian kingdoms fall was destined as they failed to grasp the importance of technology & industrial revolution. Also, your statement "Thanks to the stellar leadership in place since 2014" is also not entirely correct because the source of Indian economy's boost was 1991 economic reforms by P. V. Narasimha Rao govt in which Manmohan Singh was finance minister.

Indians don't know their history and are easily manipulated. We need to change this in the education system so the next generations understand India from Indian eyes and not some foreign or ideologically motivated interpretation. Every country has a story and that story should be written by the people of that country and not others.

Knowing & understanding are two entirely different things. You can give the same history book to 2 persons & one person will come up with "Mughals all bad, British all bad..." while other come up with "Mughals all good, British all good.." with the reality somewhere in between. We do need a change in education system to increase the understanding of ppl so they use their own brain & logical facts instead of relying on some leaders/ideology/political party narratives.

 

[Mr.J]

I once read a few years ago that india paradoxically also has the world's largest slum and that a good chunk of it's population was below the poverty line.

That's true. We have massive wealth disparity.

Explained: The rich-poor gap in India

The latest World Inequality Report flags India as a poor and very unequal country, with the top 10% holding 57% of national income in 2021, and the bottom 50% holding just 13%. Breaking down the key findings.

indianexpress.com

It was kingdoms & Mughals & it was before Industrial revolution. Also, there was no concept of India as such before British as it was all kingdoms/dynasties. Always glorifying past is not a good thing when reality says otherwise. India or more specifically Indian kingdoms fall was destined as they failed to grasp the importance of technology & industrial revolution. Also, your statement "Thanks to the stellar leadership in place since 2014" is also not entirely correct because the source of Indian economy's boost was 1991 economic reforms by P. V. Narasimha Rao govt in which Manmohan Singh was finance minister.

What do you mean? Are you saying reforms and policies have long term effects and they're not like light switch? I thought PRime Minister just hit improve economy button his desk.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@blr_p China prioritize within-country consumption. Generally their statistics are untrustworthy, can also work positive for them from ? For eg., they are prioritizing people to have more children, there is an recent article in BBC on how single mothers feels better in China contrary their cultural ethos:

Why it's getting easier to be a single mum in China

How rule changes and financial independence is helping unmarried women to keep their babies.

www.bbc.com

Since they are an authoritarian state, they will use drastic measures to increase population quickly unlike how Indians think ?

India have to prioritize educating people more in skills required quickly, ignore ageism, introduce wide range of skill courses and exams, provide opportunities for people to work and progress quickly to utilize the population dividend. Population should've been considered as an asset (not in hyper levels obviously) if things were executed properly, but that is not exactly what we are seeing today.

Add to this huge migration of Indian youth to countries with better HDI, career prospects & also higher migration of High Networth Individuals out of the country.

India is indeed a 'huge' market, only time will tell about it's 'quality' of improvement.