Is India a secular country?

Lord Nemesis

Lord Nemesis

Overlord
Skilled
The word "Secular" was added to the preamble of the Indian Constitution, but does that word alone make the country secular?

People commonly mistake secular to mean equal consideration and respect for all religions when in reality, it is about equal indifference and isolation from all religions.

Basically, it means Laws and political polices should not be made or enforced with consideration towards religious traditions, practices or sentiments of the people.

In that light, can India be considered a secular country?

Unfortunately, India has neither impartial consideration to all religions or does it have isolation and equal indifference to all simply because of the caste and religion based vote bank politics.

We have specific laws to deal with "hurt religious sentiments" even though we already have laws to deal with hate speech. Mind you there is a big difference between the two. Somebody who is goading people towards violence on others should be punished. But something as harmless as a video game could also potentially run into legal troubles because it happens to contain a two headed cow.

We have a separate Hindu, Muslim and Christian marriage acts with provisions that are vastly different. That cannot even be considered equality. Its like how "racial equality" in America in late 1800's and early 1900's meant having separate cars on trains or waiting rooms for Whites and Colored people.

We have numerous laws and policies that have consideration for or deal with appeasing religious sentiments or useless traditions rather than being based on open minded rational thought alone.

I do not think India with its massive vote bank politics revolving around money, religion and caste could ever get anywhere close to being indifferent and impartial to religion, so I think its high time India stops calling itself secular.
 
Documents like the Constitution call India a great many number of things. In real life and in practice, the country is not many of those things. The true meaning of being secular won't be realized till the time we have a UCC (Uniform Civil Code) and that too, without any exceptions. So your question is not even a question in the sense that the answer is so obvious.

Having said that, I'd rather spend time thinking on how things could be made better simply because I find myself drained and depressed if I see everything around me in either black or white.
 
Is our country Secular? Definitely No, The word itself was added later to the constitution to please their vote bank politics. When a country was divided on the basis of religion one cannot be Islamic and other Secular. Without implementation of UCC the secular credentials are Joke, nothing much.

Will we ever be able to rise above caste and religion based politics, whether we'll be truely Secular? Definitely Yes. Our society is much more polarised than ever before, to the extent that it cannot be divided further... It can only improve from now on.
I'm sure, We are going to see the truely secular, United India in our lifetime, definitely.
 
drkrack said:
Will we ever be able to rise above caste and religion based politics, whether we'll be truely Secular? Definitely Yes. Our society is much more polarised than ever before, to the extent that it cannot be divided further... It can only improve from now on.
I'm sure, We are going to see the truely secular, United India in our lifetime, definitely.
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To be honest, our country feels like its achieved its pinnacle a few millennia ago and has since been falling down into what's seemingly a bottomless bit of degeneration and devolution. The bare minimum requirement to stop falling even further let alone climbing back up is realization of the situation and acceptance that there a lot of things wrong with us which is not happening as people are in self denial mode.

Just look at whats happening. As if caste, religion, gender, color are not enough basis for discrimination and conflict in this country, people are busy finding even more.
 
vishalrao said:
Nah, I'd say we are culture-rich rather.
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Well, that depends on what definition of culture you consider. If you consider all the useless regressive traditions and practices that have been passed down the generations to be culture, we are definitely "culture rich" in that there is too much to count, but if you consider only the intellectual achievements and refinement of what is good, not so much or at least not so different from any of the other countries.

Evolution and progress means that every generation is refining what has been passed down to them by keeping and improving on the good things and discarding the bad things. Even trying to keep everything intact in the name of preserving culture and traditions is itself a form of degeneration since it means that there is nobody good enough left to refine it further. The excuse for that is that we are flawless and everything we have is the pinnacle of perfection. Basically self denial.

We have had the practice of Sati for nearly 3500 years in our history. It was nothing more than a devious practice that arose from greed. When attempts were made to put an end to the practice during the British rule, there was massive resistance in the country all in the name of preserving our culture and traditions. Even after it was banned, organizations like RSS tried their best to bring it back. It still continues to this day in some regions. Same goes for child marriage. Almost every country in the world has had child marriages at one point of time, but over the years they evolved enough to reject it. But in India its still rampart despite bans. I had a couple of classmates at college who have had child marriage. One of the guys showed me his marriage photo and told me how he and his wife at ages 8 and 6 were sedated and then married.
 
vishalrao said:
Nah, I'd say we are culture-rich rather. It's the backward shithole part I can agree with, especially when I'm having a bad day :D
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I do not find anything rich in our culture, to be honest.

Most of India is a lying and conniving nation. Walking with prejudiced blinders based on religion, caste, and creed. It is now worsened with interstate migrations and pockets being created of polarized groups which live a degenerate lifestyle, are more tuned into political machinations and oneupmanship for social and personal gratifications. An Indian can be walking with a few pennies in his all ready torn pockets -- but will wonder (with a group of gossip mongers) how the next door civilian accumulated wealth and/or went abroad for a vacation. Since we all love to ask each others salaries, phones, cars, and ages: so we deem fit to lie (or show off) about the same. Why even ask these things..? Or irate questions like: do you eat non-vegetarian food. Indians speak out of line, are loud, and filthy minded to the core. Any business transaction (be it a corporation or bank) has the underlying bastion and foundation cemented in deceit and getting an upper hand. Be it buying vegetables from the roadside. The sad part is: it has been happening for so many years, that it is actually normal. So thereon it is our culture.

I see India as a busted open country living in the past and trying to bask in the glory of being a thriving economy. It is all false and incorrect. Sugar coating. I see India like a 1B populated Cabri Green or the Robert Taylor Housing of Chicago or even the Bronx before the fires..! LOL.
 
Disclaimer: I should never feel to ask this question. Ever.

I am going to ask this question to all. Not just the people in this thread, wish I can ask to everyone. But anyhow,

I am a christian. in Kerala. 4th gen catholic. Our forefathers were Hindu brahmins. There are some old pics with us where they were wearing "poonoolu", the white thread thing like a sash.
Am I hardcore christian. I dont know. I pray. I read bible. I try to go to church as much as I can. But not so much in the last 4 years since I moved to europe and then to US. I have a thing for mass in malayalam.
I dont like to attend a mass in english or any other language. Going to church is more like a feeling of being connected to family and friends back in kerala.
I eat everything. My mother is a vegetarian after her cancer spell. I studied in a christian school. My church's to be honest. Studied with Hindus and Muslims. Celebrated Onam, Eid, Diwali, Christmas and New year in the same splendor. In house. Religion was never a thing in my mind at least until I moved to Mysore in 2011. Then came the religious and dietary barriers. I love beef. Once a colleague actually referred to my parents as animals.
In an office lunch event. (When I was in US, that person was there. and he ordered a cheese burger. and enjoyed it half. I waited till then to let him know its beef. well hey I am petty and low.)

I frequent forums about indian defence and all. Seen threads like How to solve Muslim and Christian problems in India. (Really???).

Do you guys hate us that much? Why? As a christian with tonnes of christian friends.... I guarantee you. We don't give a shit what religion you are. Do not bring religious conversions. They are this fringe group who flip flop religions for monetary benefits. I know 100's of Christians who are against it. I have seen arguments inside our church about this. Of course these will never be in public domain.
In my family there are 7 priests including a bishop. and 3 nuns. Trust me I know what I am talking about. One of my closest friends just became a priest last year. We dont want those kinda people. They give us a bad name.
They want money and house and education and shit. Thats it.

Do you know why we are against it??... Coz WE NEED TO PAY FOR THEM. Simple. Nothing personal to them. Just we dont want to spend our money and listen to news about conversion.

And about this "foreign money" we get... Do you know what this is?? Vatican is not sending us millions. There are common people who donate or sponsor people. For education. For welfare facilities. They are just sending their small shares monthly. Dont we give money to charity? I know I do.

When did India just became for Hindus?. BJP with Modi went to power with development agenda. Not Hindutva.I understand the recent vigor for this is due to BJP being in government. But damn.
He is doing things. He only was elected by 31% of the Indian population. I think that number is right. Dont you guys want him to go into power with more mandate?

Recent Amit Shah dialogue about Vamana Jayanthi. WTF? Myth may be true. At some point Onam stopped being a Hindu only festival in Kerala. its a state festival. I have seen hindus take offense in Keralites correcting Amit Shah. "No you guys got the myth wrong" "Its time for you guys to make it right" "This is the proper hindu definition"

What the ****ing eff?
 
I just feel that Religion shouldn't have a place in a modern society.
Religion was never supposed to become this rigid. It was never supposed to be more than just a set of guidelines so that one can become a better member of the society. Those guidelines were supposed to change with time as the society changes with time.
There were very important reasons behind those guidelines. Like, for instance, cows provided us with milk and dung as fertilizer. Not to mention, the bulls were used for tilling the land. So they had an important place in society. One can even say that there were strong scientific reasons for most of the religious bans. Religion just proved to be an easier tool to make the people follow the laws.
And that's why I think that Religion is out of place in today's society where we have written laws.
With the kind of population we have, I don't think we will ever be able to eradicate Religion, no matter what we call ourselves on a piece of paper. It definitely was a bold ambition but we never worked towards achieving it and hence we are in this pickle right now where everyone uses Religion just when it suits them.
 
Whatever we call ourselves, we are sitting in a cultural/religious time bomb. The day it explodes, we all are going back to the stone age/present day Afghanistan...... And it's ticking ready to explode anytime even a slight provocation and we the so called seculars.. / sensible are out numbered so much by the idiots, most of us are going to lose everything and I dread that the most... India is not secular..... That was the rosy ideal /idea. It's a ticking time bomb that's what it is.....
 
Guess most of what you have written is rhetorically. However will have to respond since there seems to be some agreement to the view.


Lord Nemesis said:
The word "Secular" was added to the preamble of the Indian Constitution, but does that word alone make the country secular?
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There are many words in the constitution which can be put in the same vain:


Is India, ensuring social justice or political justice. Is it upholding the dignity of its citizens. These are big dreams when we are finding it difficult to provide food and clothing to all.


Many such questions are more important questions in a nation like ours than the more popular topic of secularism and religion. But then, when the unfed cries of hunger, the overfed (including myself) will cry of stomach pain.


The constitution is a guideline for our nation to follow. It is not a record of conditions already existing.


Lord Nemesis said:
I do not think India with its massive vote bank politics revolving around money, religion and caste could ever get anywhere close to being indifferent and impartial to religion, so I think its high time India stops calling itself secular.
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You do not recommend scrapping a necessary idea because certain elements are not working. You do not recommend scrapping police force or army for corruption or even murder. You do not recommend to scrap parliament, you do not recommend to scrap free speech, you do not recommend to scrap rations. Everything has got massive scandals attached. Then why just this.


Lord Nemesis said:
People commonly mistake secular to mean equal consideration and respect for all religions when in reality, it is about equal indifference and isolation from all religions.


Basically, it means Laws and political polices should not be made or enforced with consideration towards religious traditions, practices or sentiments of the people.


In that light, can India be considered a secular country?


Unfortunately, India has neither impartial consideration to all religions or does it have isolation and equal indifference to all simply because of the caste and religion based vote bank politics.


We have specific laws to deal with "hurt religious sentiments" even though we already have laws to deal with hate speech. Mind you there is a big difference between the two. Somebody who is goading people towards violence on others should be punished. But something as harmless as a video game could also potentially run into legal troubles because it happens to contain a two headed cow.


We have a separate Hindu, Muslim and Christian marriage acts with provisions that are vastly different. That cannot even be considered equality. Its like how "racial equality" in America in late 1800's and early 1900's meant having separate cars on trains or waiting rooms for Whites and Colored people.
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Just like the discussion on secularism aspect of constitution, branding code bills as issues of religion is narrow and opportunistic. The primary issue of hindu and muslim personal laws is gender inequality (I have no understanding of christian laws). However, right from the 50s, protests against any progressive amendments to this were in name of religion. The opponents were always the chauvinists and the misguided. However you will are right about us being in 1800’s or 1900’s. You will be surprised how primitive we are to upholding such gender inequality till recent times. Eg: Hindu daughters equal Property right was enabled by court in 2005.


People’s understanding of secularism is not that wrong. In India, it means the right to wear a turban, tilak or a skullcap. This state has the obligation to ensure that people have the liberty to practice ones faith as long as it does not infringe with other basic rights. Do not overlap this with what other countries practice. We are neither Pakistan nor France. Nor are they better than us. And for avoidance of doubt, the concept of secularism is not an afterthought. It was a foundation even during our struggle for independence and as far as the idea of this nation is concerned. Hence we cannot separate religion from our society. Nor we have to. Because that’s what secularism is to us.


I grew up at a time when adults deliberately avoided using religious names for their children to show their belief in a plural society; the temple goddess procession goes to the Church and Mosque to receive their welcome instead of other temples; saw muslims observing celibacy to go to temple; celebrating eid with muslims and christmas with christian (we did not have other sections); and were proud to celebrate onam as a festival for everyone. For me, believing in secularism is not too difficult.


Of course, even then, there were people who said that their so and so forefathers were harassed by Mughals and hence religious hatred is ingrained in them. Though am not sure whether they even knew their so and so forefather’s names. I know people who voted for ABV for the sake of progress of this country and then, five years on, some of them decided not to vote for him in the next election as he did not scrap reservation or build a particular temple.


Both sides do exist everywhere. People who fight in the name of god is capable of fighting in the name of any other thing be it ethnicity, state, regions within state, class, caste, local leaders. At this rate, you will end up wishing to wipe the entire contents of the constitution as it does not exist in your society. But it won’t be for anything better.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
Well, that depends on what definition of culture you consider. If you consider all the useless regressive traditions and practices that have been passed down the generations to be culture, we are definitely "culture rich" in that there is too much to count, but if you consider only the intellectual achievements and refinement of what is good, not so much or at least not so different from any of the other countries.

Evolution and progress means that every generation is refining what has been passed down to them by keeping and improving on the good things and discarding the bad things. Even trying to keep everything intact in the name of preserving culture and traditions is itself a form of degeneration since it means that there is nobody good enough left to refine it further. The excuse for that is that we are flawless and everything we have is the pinnacle of perfection. Basically self denial.

We have had the practice of Sati for nearly 3500 years in our history. It was nothing more than a devious practice that arose from greed. When attempts were made to put an end to the practice during the British rule, there was massive resistance in the country all in the name of preserving our culture and traditions. Even after it was banned, organizations like RSS tried their best to bring it back. It still continues to this day in some regions. Same goes for child marriage. Almost every country in the world has had child marriages at one point of time, but over the years they evolved enough to reject it. But in India its still rampart despite bans. I had a couple of classmates at college who have had child marriage. One of the guys showed me his marriage photo and told me how he and his wife at ages 8 and 6 were sedated and then married.
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rdst_1 said:
I just feel that Religion shouldn't have a place in a modern society.
Religion was never supposed to become this rigid. It was never supposed to be more than just a set of guidelines so that one can become a better member of the society. Those guidelines were supposed to change with time as the society changes with time.
There were very important reasons behind those guidelines. Like, for instance, cows provided us with milk and dung as fertilizer. Not to mention, the bulls were used for tilling the land. So they had an important place in society. One can even say that there were strong scientific reasons for most of the religious bans. Religion just proved to be an easier tool to make the people follow the laws.
And that's why I think that Religion is out of place in today's society where we have written laws.
With the kind of population we have, I don't think we will ever be able to eradicate Religion, no matter what we call ourselves on a piece of paper. It definitely was a bold ambition but we never worked towards achieving it and hence we are in this pickle right now where everyone uses Religion just when it suits them.
Click to expand...
We Indians are not Religious either, don't get carried away thinking that our religious beliefs are the reasons for our misery. Certainly it contributes but, deep down the actual causes are much universal and unique to Indians. If there was no religious angle, there would have been something else to divide us. We fight and kill for a trivial point as our matinee idols, linguistic loyalty etc, so its very superficial and naive to think that our religious beliefs are the culprits.

We Indians are basically worst Hobbesians (ruthless people dedicated to self interest, over everything else) the world has ever seen. Our self interests matters much more than anything else, including the interests of the country, community or religion for that matter. We use anything and everything available to us to achieve our goals, we use gods, religious philosophy, anything to suit our needs.

The major religion of this country basically revolves around flattering and bribing the gods to fulfill our desires. So corruption and bribing is not considered a crime at all. When British invaded India, they just had to bribe the second in hierarchy in the opposition to win the battles. Take any major battle against British for example, it was won by bribing. We offered least resistance to British invasion. You can see our Hobbesian values in everything we do, from breaking a simple traffic rules to compromising the security of the nation, its ubiquitous.

If we were dedicated to our religious beliefs, religious conversions should not be occurring in the first place.
But, we can be easily bribed to get converted to a Sinner friendly religion (which says no need to bother about your sins; someone has already been crucified for it 2000yrs ago :)) from a briber friendly religion. Other than self interest nothing can explain this phenomenon.

We were successfully terrorized in the past to get converted from this briber friendly religion to the most peaceful religion in the world (just Google for "most peaceful religion in the world" you'll be shocked with the results ) which doesn't preach Intolerance to other religions and doesn't have anything to do with terrorists and terrorism (pun intended).

So there's little to wonder about the people who got converted to other religions that they don't behave anything different from the briber friendly religion, because basically they are all Indians (Hobbesians). There's a starking difference in the way the other religions are practiced in India to the way its practiced elsewhere. For eg Where else in the world, you can see Dowry demands practiced in Sinner friendly religion or the Most peaceful religion of the world?

Where does this all leads to? We're using gods and religious beliefs to our advantage to mask corruption, incompetence, barbarism and indulge in vote bank politics based on caste religion etc. Unless the people using religion as a tool to earn their livelihood are reprimanded severely this will continue. People on both sides ; the Self appointed Gau rakshaks, and pseudo intellectual brigade should be strongly discouraged to use pro or opposing a religious belief to their advantage.

BTW this discussion how and why a country isn't as secular as it should've been will be entertained as long as the briber friendly or Sinner friendly religions are in Majority. The moment the most peaceful religion reaches a majority mark, discussion will be how and when to implement Sharia?

m-jeri said:
Disclaimer: I should never feel to ask this question. Ever.

I am going to ask this question to all. Not just the people in this thread, wish I can ask to everyone. But anyhow,

I am a christian. in Kerala. 4th gen catholic. Our forefathers were Hindu brahmins. There are some old pics with us where they were wearing "poonoolu", the white thread thing like a sash.
Am I hardcore christian. I dont know. I pray. I read bible. I try to go to church as much as I can. But not so much in the last 4 years since I moved to europe and then to US. I have a thing for mass in malayalam.
I dont like to attend a mass in english or any other language. Going to church is more like a feeling of being connected to family and friends back in kerala.
I eat everything. My mother is a vegetarian after her cancer spell. I studied in a christian school. My church's to be honest. Studied with Hindus and Muslims. Celebrated Onam, Eid, Diwali, Christmas and New year in the same splendor. In house. Religion was never a thing in my mind at least until I moved to Mysore in 2011. Then came the religious and dietary barriers. I love beef. Once a colleague actually referred to my parents as animals.
In an office lunch event. (When I was in US, that person was there. and he ordered a cheese burger. and enjoyed it half. I waited till then to let him know its beef. well hey I am petty and low.)

I frequent forums about indian defence and all. Seen threads like How to solve Muslim and Christian problems in India. (Really???).

Do you guys hate us that much? Why? As a christian with tonnes of christian friends.... I guarantee you. We don't give a shit what religion you are. Do not bring religious conversions. They are this fringe group who flip flop religions for monetary benefits. I know 100's of Christians who are against it. I have seen arguments inside our church about this. Of course these will never be in public domain.
In my family there are 7 priests including a bishop. and 3 nuns. Trust me I know what I am talking about. One of my closest friends just became a priest last year. We dont want those kinda people. They give us a bad name.
They want money and house and education and shit. Thats it.

Do you know why we are against it??... Coz WE NEED TO PAY FOR THEM. Simple. Nothing personal to them. Just we dont want to spend our money and listen to news about conversion.

And about this "foreign money" we get... Do you know what this is?? Vatican is not sending us millions. There are common people who donate or sponsor people. For education. For welfare facilities. They are just sending their small shares monthly. Dont we give money to charity? I know I do.

When did India just became for Hindus?. BJP with Modi went to power with development agenda. Not Hindutva.I understand the recent vigor for this is due to BJP being in government. But damn.
He is doing things. He only was elected by 31% of the Indian population. I think that number is right. Dont you guys want him to go into power with more mandate?

Recent Amit Shah dialogue about Vamana Jayanthi. WTF? Myth may be true. At some point Onam stopped being a Hindu only festival in Kerala. its a state festival. I have seen hindus take offense in Keralites correcting Amit Shah. "No you guys got the myth wrong" "Its time for you guys to make it right" "This is the proper hindu definition"

What the ****ing eff?
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I'm sorry, but most of your thoughts indicates your hatred than other way round. Out of six Indian states I've lived only Kerala had people approaching me (probably because of my atheist attitude) for religious conversion (subtly initially and more annoying later ). If I remember correctly, Pope Benedict was snubbed by Indian MEA for openly opposing legislation against religious conversions in India in 2006, so its more rampant and has blessings of Church than you think it is.

Its pretty common for any Non vegetarian to be called as Animal by vegetarians (even I'm teased the same way) , I don't think it means much.

Amit Shah does not represent Hindus, he's a leader of a political party which thrives on pseudo Pro Hindu politics, much similar to pseudo secular political parties. They both have to be reprimanded that politics of hatred doesn't pay.
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Its last 10-20yrs with the advent of internet we're having a meaningful dialogue amongst communities, I'm pretty hopeful that we'll be able move towards a more Secular and pro country policies instead of religion and caste based politics in near future. Our democracy survived in first 50yrs, now we're on the way of learning how to run it to the advantage of every individual.
Running a democracy has a steep learning curve, we're on track IMHO.
I don't hate religions per se, but the way they're practiced in this country is very disappointing.
 
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drkrack said:
Its last 10-20yrs with the advent of internet we're having a meaningful dialogue amongst communities, I'm pretty hopeful that we'll be able move towards a more Secular and pro country policies instead of religion and caste based politics in near future. Our democracy survived in first 50yrs, now we're on the way of learning how to run it to the advantage of every individual.
Running a democracy has a steep learning curve, we're on track IMHO.
I don't hate religions per se, but the way they're practiced in this country is very disappointing.
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I actually feel that Internet has actually made it easier to spread hatred and fear in the name of religion. Especially with the advent of social media networks where anything doctored can be shared without any accountability. Recent doctored pictures being shared on Facebook showing streets of Bangladesh filled with bloody water on the occasion of Bakr-Eid were being shared by Hindu hate groups and so called Animal activists alike.

I don't hate religions either. However, like I have said above, with the advancements in science that humans have achieved, I find that Religion is an outdated notion. We now have the technologies which are good enough for us to make logical decisions, so we no longer need diktats from a bygone era on how one must behave in a society. Sadly, we have already forgotten all those things over the years because of the way the so-called protectors of the religion, whether it is Pandits, Maulvis or Priests, have changed the teachings to hand themselves power over the people. So the people today are practising bastardized versions of their religion and that is why I usually am seen condemning any and all forms of silly rituals practised in the form of religion.
 
rdst_1 said:
I actually feel that Internet has actually made it easier to spread hatred and fear in the name of religion. Especially with the advent of social media networks where anything doctored can be shared without any accountability. Recent doctored pictures being shared on Facebook showing streets of Bangladesh filled with bloody water on the occasion of Bakr-Eid were being shared by Hindu hate groups and so called Animal activists alike.

I don't hate religions either. However, like I have said above, with the advancements in science that humans have achieved, I find that Religion is an outdated notion. We now have the technologies which are good enough for us to make logical decisions, so we no longer need diktats from a bygone era on how one must behave in a society. Sadly, we have already forgotten all those things over the years because of the way the so-called protectors of the religion, whether it is Pandits, Maulvis or Priests, have changed the teachings to hand themselves power over the people. So the people today are practising bastardized versions of their religion and that is why I usually am seen condemning any and all forms of silly rituals practised in the form of religion.
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are you sure they are doctored ? they were shared even by news channels and many foreign ones too. even videos are there of it http://indianexpress.com/article/tr...water-of-rain-here-is-what-whappened-3030480/
 
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RakaKaKaka said:
are you sure they are doctored ? they were shared even by news channels and many foreign ones too.
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Frankly I am not sure whether they were doctored or not. Some people are saying they are doctored while many are saying that the other pictures are doctored by removing the blood from the pictures.
However, people just share these pics without doing any background research. I rarely share news items on my Facebook wall, but when I do, I make sure I have researched on the matter from various sources.
And that is the point I was trying to make. With the help of internet, it has become even more easier to manipulate people because generally there is no accountability.
 
rdst_1 said:
Frankly I am not sure whether they were doctored or not. Some people are saying they are doctored while many are saying that the other pictures are doctored by removing the blood from the pictures.
However, people just share these pics without doing any background research. I rarely share news items on my Facebook wall, but when I do, I make sure I have researched on the matter from various sources.
And that is the point I was trying to make. With the help of internet, it has become even more easier to manipulate people because generally there is no accountability.
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i think videos are harder to photoshop , i wont be surprised if they were real. you cant expect hygiene in bangladesh and india. plus they are muslim dominated so progress and islam doesnt go inhand https://twitter.com/JPY_Kurdish/status/776317726541221888

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/776136402421555200
 
I guess we have already diverted away from the core topic, but in any case, just for the debate, there really is no such thing as a classification of "sinner friendly" and "bribe friendly" religions because every religion is both of those things. At its core, every religion has the same kind of underlying framework with the differences only in the implementation details.

Why did (and still do) Hindus line up to visit Kasi (Varanasi) before they die. Because they believe that whatever sins they have committed during their life would be wiped clean with a dip in Ganga. Same goes for slapping cheeks in a temple. Also, the Hindu lore has numerous examples of how any evil being could get what ever he wanted just by praying and praising the gods. Then there is the concept of Veergati. Just by dying in battle while killing as many as you could will make you eligible to enter heaven. Its not unique to Hinduism either. As per Hindu lore, the Kaurava's could enter heaven because of their Veergati, but the the pandava's could not although even neither of those two groups are any better than the other in terms of conduct.

In Christianity, certain sub groups believe that mere belief in Christ will clean all sins while others require a one or more baptisms (again a dip in water). For specific sins, it may translate into a confession, a sprinkling of holy water and a few Hail Mary
s or equivalent and quite often a generous donation to make that adultery or two go way from the slate.

Islam is mostly based on Judaism which again forms the history of Christianity too. Judaism doesn't doesn't have a strong or consistent moral framework in the first place. Anything goes as long as you believe in the one true God and bow before him and you bribe him what he wants. Christians in fact use both the old Testament and the new Testament as per convenience.

For example, take the story of Lot and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah from Torah, Bible or Quran. The story goes that God's angels go to Lot's home in the guise of men and people in the city demand Lot that the strangers be brought out so they can rape them. Lot offers them his daughters in instead, but that doesn't work . God deem the two cities to have become sinful for indulging in homosexual activity. So, God lets Lot escape with his family while he destroy's the cities. However, God turns Lot's wife into salt just for looking back against his advice (wishes). After they escape, Lot's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him and become pregnant, but God conveniently turns a blind eye to that. Most religious (Christian/Muslim) anti-gay groups use this story as the basis for their basis for condemning such activity, but conveniently ignore the irony that comes just a bit later.

At the end of the day, Religion is a tool created by humans for their own convenience. Its either a clever guy using it to to mask his own misdeeds in the guise of good or controlling and manipulating less intelligent people into doing their bidding.
 
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