Android Is OnePlus Chinese ??

Oh man as much as I want to say things I cannot do so without making it political even though it IS related to silly ego politics so probably won't be productive to this discussion lol. :p
Julian said:
It's cheaper and better for us to import arms etc. than pretending we can make shit
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True that.
Bottom line is India CANNOT avoid not using "made in China" products. As I said, assembled in India is a farce. At best we might be able to *control* how much we import from China but at what costs when our economy is shit?!
It's time we need to face the facts, adept and do the needful. The earlier we do that the better it will be for us imo.
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nRiTeCh said:
Just for someone who want to hate chinese or refrain well you are still chinese as in your household more than 85% electronics stuff either directly or indirectly is chinese.
Not to forget the screws and nails as well on your walls...
So if you want to be pure desi, destroy your house and build it from scratch with pure desi material.
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The other day I went to the market looking for metal sheets and other metal jali. The prices had increased so much over the months. I asked them why and the shop keepers told me of how our economy had tanked and that affected the prices. I asked what country the stuff he had were made and he said most of them are from China. They get only a little profit from Indian-made products and added that he probably won't be stocking the ones made in India anymore. So it makes you wonder what our govt is doing and what the iron and steel industry companies are up to... :rolleyes:
 
Julian said:
India is not a superpower.

thewire.in

'Atmanirbhar' India's Quest for Army Rifles Underlines Confusion in Procurement Policy

Between flawed designs and changing specs, the military and defence ministry have gone around in circles for 30 years. Now, weapon system purchases are being fast-tracked because of the China standoff but delivery could take 2-3 years.
thewire.in thewire.in

ignore the modi bashing and read about the part where even DRDO can't even make a decent rifle (the insas) in 10 years ! Leave alone decent aircraft :

www.livefistdefence.com

The Truth Hurts, Says Indian Navy's 1st Dhruv Flight Commander - Livefist

By Commander YASHODHAN MARATHE (Retd.) I’m a second generation helicopter pilot and have been flying rotary wing machines since 1989. Of course, the primary amount of flying has been on HAL built aircraft, the Chetak and the ALH and of course, the Kiran. I’m quite saddened by the slew of…
www.livefistdefence.com www.livefistdefence.com

It's cheaper and better for us to import arms etc. than pretending we can make shit
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I know india is not a superpower, if we ever want to be we need to build the military hardware here.
I was the first one to post the link here about the druv and HAL incompetance.
But then again without the knowledge from druv, we wouldnt have made the LCH.

About imports being cheaper it depends on from which country you import, EU stuff is super expensive. We are paying much higher for Rafale, even a F-35 is cheaper.
We pay much higher for the HAL assembled SU-30 then importing a completly built SU-30 from Irkut, Russia. The chinese did the same, but they now blatantly produce copies of the Su-27/30/33 variants without paying any licence fees to Russia.
Not exactly sure what HAL learnt by assembeling. I hope atleast the localization went up.

Its high time the private companies start getting big time into aerospace.
 
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adder said:
I know india is not a superpower, if we ever want to be we need to build the military hardware here.
I was the first one to post the link here about the druv and HAL incompetance.
But then again without the knowledge from druv, we wouldnt have made the LCH.

About imports being cheaper it depends on from which country you import, EU stuff is super expensive. We are paying much higher for Rafale, even a F-35 is cheaper.
We pay much higher for the HAL assembled SU-30 then importing a completly built SU-30 from Irkut, Russia. The chinese did the same, but they now blatantly produce copies of the Su-27/30/33 variants without paying any licence fees to Russia.

Its high time the private companies start getting big time into aerospace.
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The point is not whether we need to become a superpower first in order to manufacture our own hardware or whether we need to start making hardware to become a superpower. It's about the attitude and mentality of most indians. Which is what's always holding us back. Look at israel. When they were barely a country and surrounded and being attacked from all sides by their neighbours, they manufactured their own weapons like the iconic UZI. And are now one of the top manufacturers in the world. We simply don't have that winning spirit.

Rafale is more expensive (than the previous deal) because collusion...
 
Julian said:
It's about the attitude and mentality of most indians. Which is what's always holding us back.

Rafale is more expensive (than the previous deal) because collusion...
Click to expand...
Agree, indians want easy money.

All the so called made in India, should declare if its just assembled in India. Car makers already publize in media events about percentage of localization content and imported content. Its high time they do that with electronics.

Rafale and Eurofighter both are from EU, with both being the 2 most expensive jets in MMRCA contest. The new deal was expensive because of indian specfic enhancements and newer requirement by IAF, Meteor missile vs older Mica missile, Storm shadow standoff missile, AESA vs older PESA radar and so on. Lastly the price would be higher due to less planes 36 vs 110+ planes and mainly due to inflation prices a decade ago was cheaper then current price and this applies to even mig29 and su30.

I was looking at replacing my made for Chinese market Dahua ip cameras because they started dropping like flies in july (they have government mandated built in back door for chinese market, mine is a chinese version with a aliexpress dealer hacked english firmware, cheaper then dahua international version. ) Guess what panasonic,bosch,Honeywell indian brand CP plus etc just rebadge Dahua cameras. US currently has banned dahua and hikvision and every other company which is using these two companies as oem because of backdoors which where present even in international versions.

But even if one where to spend $2000+ for a Axis camera, the video quality and features doesn't even match a 300 to $400 camera from dahua or hikvision, such is how far ahead the chinese are despite using the same Sony sensors.

So in some areas we have no alternative to the chinese ones. I would probably get another dahua because to much invested in the acessories like mounts/brackets and put in vlan or in another network without internet. I am not convinced my cameras dropped randomly.
 
I was wondering how would the Gripen perform in our theatre? Would it do the job and more wrt. pakistan? China is added to the equation now. The americans may have shot themselves in the foot, overcomplicating and overestimating their requirements for fighters with development of the f-35, but there's no denying their platforms do the job. the practically ancient f-15E still has one of the best records. It's just crazy how the americans refused to sell us planes and we ended up cozying to russia. how would it have been if it was the other way around? would we have an american majority fighter fleet and pak using russian fighters?

About your cams, what do you mean dropped? no power at all? you think they did a backdoor self-destruct?
 
The problem with american stuff is the black box, no ToT. Potential sanctions, if we do not obey uncle sam.
Other then that their hardware has the edge. F15EX has just been offered to india, which boeing claims that it has the most power full computer and GaN Aesa radar which makes it the most powerfull radar ever put a fighter plane. But I doubt we will go with US stuff for IAF, may be navy will go for f18 block 3 because of logistics same engines as the lca mk2.

Gripen only selling point is its GaN Aesa radar and meteor missile and the common logistics for engine with lca mk2. But at a price of 85million which brazil paid, its costs the same as F35. Lca is cheaper at some 35million odd price it has option of israeli built aesa radar, or drdo built aesa radar. Hal wants to go with the israel version because israel invested and made the radar just because of the large lca orders it anticipated. While drdo wants to get its version, which will help the indian industry which has invested heavily to make GaA based transistors and are also working on the GaN.

My camera have power and also pings. Its a known thing that hackers target these cameras, I have seen images on the net , where its shows "your camera is hacked" message, some sending packets to chinese servers. While mine just doesnt want to send any video and cannot be acessed with its respective webpage . Some say to physically reset it inside the camera, which is easier said then done, considering the locations which its installed.
 
The main reason India didn't go for the JAS39 was mainly due to the fact that they use an engine licensed from GE. US controls the engine export. So in case we go to war and US doesn't like it for any reason they can block it completely.

Furthermore we cannot do most maintenance of jet engines in India. I remember reading that the Su30 engines need to be shipped to Russia for routine overhauls.

The Gripen being a single engine light fighter didn't stand much of a chance for the medium role.

The INSAS pissess me off too much. Even US garage level gunsmiths can do a better job of cloning an AK with a few FN FAL features.

Now we seem to be going back in time with multiple calibers of 7.62x39(AK203), 7.62x51 NATO(SIG 716) ,5.56x45(INSAS) and 7.62x54(Tank PKT machineguns).

Does Indian army even care about logistics at this point?
 
Speaking of Russian jets, this article raises some very valid and pertinent questions. Not sure how accurate the news that we're actually ordering even more fighters from Russia is, but if so, :nailbiting:
 
Julian said:
Speaking of Russian jets, this article raises some very valid and pertinent questions. Not sure how accurate the news that we're actually ordering even more fighters from Russia is, but if so, :nailbiting:
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I seriously doubt the SU30 brakes and tires needs to replaced after every sortie which is a load of BS. Russians in syria did 10x the sorties per day compared to US air force and those SU30 and its variants where loaded with bombs and missiles so no question of the lack of payload which would effect the brakes. Russia is the reason why ISIS was defeated which is not the western media wants you to think.

The Su30 with its twin engine has more then enough trust for high altitude operations, it has much higher loitering time because it has large internal fuel vs say a F16, F/A-18 type fighter which needs external fuel tanks which causes drag. SU30 has higher trust to weight ratio then the mirage 2000, mig21, lca, gripen, mig29, F18E, F16 only loosing to the SU35, rafale, EF, F15E, F22, F35.

The one area where western journalists are guranteed to bad mouth india is when Russian military hardware is involved and a potential of US military hardware sale.

We use mirage 2000 because the spice missile is compatible with mirage 2000, it was yet to be made compatible in SU30. Once the indian made computer is installed fleet wise with our own software we can integrate what ever we want legally. For strike mission you also don't take a large aircraft like SU30 which has large RCS, you take a small aircraft which will be flying low to evade enemy aircraft. While the SU30 where doing CAP and also acting as a force multiplier. In the gulf war the F15 where mostly doing all the air to air shots, while the smaller F16 and F18 where doing the ground strike.

SU 30 does lack long range stand off ground strike weapons, it does have the bramos cruise missile but thats not what you want to use for taking out some terrorists. SU30 primary role was for air superiority, not ground strike, its role was later modified to multi role.
 
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adder said:
I seriously doubt the SU30 brakes and tires needs to replaced after every sortie which is a load of BS. Russians in syria did 10x the sorties per day compared to US air force and those SU30 and its variants where loaded with bombs and missiles so no question of the lack of payload which would effect the brakes. Russia is the reason why ISIS was defeated which is not the western media wants you to think.

The Su30 with its twin engine has more then enough trust for high altitude operations, it has much higher loitering time because it has large internal fuel vs say a F16, F/A-18 type fighter which needs external fuel tanks which causes drag. SU30 has higher trust to weight ratio then the mirage 2000, mig21, lca, gripen, mig29, F18E, F16 only loosing to the SU35, rafale, EF, F15E, F22, F35.

The one area where western journalists are guranteed to bad mouth india is when Russian military hardware is involved and a potential of US military hardware sale.

We use mirage 2000 because the spice missile is compatible with mirage 2000, it was yet to be made compatible in SU30. Once the indian made computer is installed fleet wise with our own software we can integrate what ever we want legally. For strike mission you also don't take a large aircraft like SU30 which has large RCS, you take a small aircraft which will be flying low to evade enemy aircraft. While the SU30 where doing CAP and also acting as a force multiplier. In the gulf war the F15 where mostly doing all the air to air shots, while the smaller F16 and F18 where doing the ground strike.

SU 30 does lack long range stand off ground strike weapons, it does have the bramos cruise missile but thats not what you want to use for taking out some terrorists. SU30 primary role was for air superiority, not ground strike, its role was later modified to multi role.
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Ok, let's assume all those su-30 issues are moot. But what about the point where shouldn't we be buying more advanced jets like the rafale we already have instead of more archaic russian ones? Shouldn't our fleet be modernized instead of simply enlarged?
 
Julian said:
Ok, let's assume all those su-30 issues are moot. But what about the point where shouldn't we be buying more advanced jets like the rafale we already have instead of more archaic russian ones? Shouldn't our fleet be modernized instead of simply enlarged?
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In a perfect world we could buy more rafale, but with a price of nearly 2x f35, we simply cannot afford it. F35 has become that cheap due to economics of scale. Additional SU30 where long sort after by the IAF, due to various attrition i.e the jets lost due to crashes. Thus far we have lost 11 SU30 aircraft since the nearly 2 decades its has been in service.

Mig 29 are cheap replacement to get the squadron strength up. Cheap aircraft in large number is also a active deterrent agaisnt a country like china which has a numerical advantage and also fields similar SU30 series. While the rafale Meteor missile is a silver bullet, its also a active deterrence to a country like Pak which has a small airforce but currently fields a longer range missile vs our slightly inferior russian ones, which we did address with fresh imports of matching range missiles that arrived last month from Russia and also fast tracking clearance our own DRDO Astra missile which match or surpasses what our western neighbor has. Rafales which are armed with meteor is the worlds most potent air to air missile, that will keep pak airforce well within their own border. But china can counter that with their J20.

Our fleet is getting modernized, mirages 2000, mig29,jaguar are all being modernized. Only the SU30 is yet to be modernized which includes AESA upgrade, better EW, SDR, more indian content and if russian airforce upgrade requirements are made available to India we will also get more powerful engines with longer service life, assuming we have the budget, engine upgrade costs atleast half the cost of a new aircraft.

When the mig 21 retires we will have a huge drop in squadren strength, which is where cheap imports like mig29 and our own lca can make the difference for a two front war.
 
adder said:
</snip>
I am not convinced my cameras dropped randomly.
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Second that. I saw a lot of weird behavior on several Chinese origin devices at the height of the recent standoff. Some devices such as a TV boxes, smart remotes etc. monentarily glitched after years of trouble free ops but continue to work while others such as IP Cameras, smart lights etc. gave up the ghost and are still not accessible with the same symptoms that adder describes.
 
Btw, everyone working from home on a laptop, where are they made?

Any laptop in the world truly not made in China (Taiwan)?
 
Keeping in mind the dominance of China in eletronics manufacturing as well as 80% share of the global output of rare earth metals which are critical for semiconductors I don't think theres any electronic device where a single penny out of the Bill Of Materials didn't go into China's pocket.

Yes people can say that the components are Taiwanese or Vietnamese but drill down further into each sub component and Chinese manufactured/mined resources will be there.

www.euronews.com

Rare earth elements: The key in the US-China trade war

The US could be in big trouble if China decided to stop exporting rare earth elements.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
 
Instead of only criticizing them for the intrusion etc. our govt. could learn a thing or two from the Chinese, how they've bought mining rights in African or South-American countries, heck even Greenland.

thediplomat.com

China Rushes to Dominate Global Supply of Lithium

Beijing’s race to control supplies of lithium, used in powering electric cars, is leaving its rivals far behind.
thediplomat.com

qz.com

One Chinese company now controls half the world's lithium production

Every smartphone and fully electric car in the world is powered by lithium-ion batteries, and the market for them is about to explode. China is preparing to assert its dominance.
qz.com qz.com

www.forbes.com

Why China Is Dominating Lithium-Ion Battery Production

As the world increasingly electrifies its transportation systems, China is poised to dominate manufacture of the batteries that will drive this electrification.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

www.reuters.com

No pot of gold for locals as China mines Sierra Leone

When the Chinese gold miners came to Masumbiri town in northern Sierra Leone, everyone lined up for jobs.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

thediplomat.com

China Steps up Its Mining Interests in Greenland

China’s growing involvement in Greenland presents risks and opportunities.
thediplomat.com

Analysis Archives - NS Energy

www.nsenergybusiness.com www.nsenergybusiness.com

www.miningmetalnews.com

Chinese control half of the Congo's cobalt

Chinese companies have heavily invested in lithium and cobalt production for lithium-ion batteries in electric cars. According to Bloomberg, Chinese companies control at least half of the production of cobalt in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Cobalt is a rare metal. The Democratic Republic of...
www.miningmetalnews.com www.miningmetalnews.com

Their level of focus and foresight is truly scary!
 
Julian said:
Ship of Theseus?

If all or most of it's components are made in China but a phone is assembled in India, does that make it not 'made in China'?
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I believe its a query to assuage that you are not contributing in anyway to China. Just like sometime back there was this 'hungama' over firangi vs swadeshi companies ie royalty flowing out and so.

Honestly, I got asked if there are any non Chinese laptop makers. I just replied that nearly every laptop, especially budget and mid range would be 'Manufactured in the PRC' for sure.
 
vivek.krishnan said:
I believe its a query to assuage that you are not contributing in anyway to China. Just like sometime back there was this 'hungama' over firangi vs swadeshi companies ie royalty flowing out and so.

Honestly, I got asked if there are any non Chinese laptop makers. I just replied that nearly every laptop, especially budget and mid range would be 'Manufactured in the PRC' for sure.
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Yes, so instead of this social media frenzy over boycott china, we need to accept that for now we can't exist in today's world without chinese products. And at the same time actually start developing our manufacturing infrastructure instead of fooling people with 'Redmi is made in india now'.

Just saw this : https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news...mmerce-and-industry-piyush-goyal-8636301.html :banghead:

They should clarify if that actually means assembled in india with a majority of chinese manufactured components.
 
Julian said:
Yes, so instead of this social media frenzy over boycott china, we need to accept that for now we can't exist in today's world without chinese products. And at the same time actually start developing our manufacturing infrastructure instead of fooling people with 'Redmi is made in india now'.

Just saw this : https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news...mmerce-and-industry-piyush-goyal-8636301.html :banghead:

They should clarify if that actually means assembled in india with a majority of chinese manufactured components.
Click to expand...

Well technically it is being made in India - they are selling a phone to you which did not exist till then.

I dont see Chinese products being boycotted in the short term - at least wrt mobiles. Apparently Redmi phones still get lapped up like crazy in the flash sales.

We are making small steps to move forward, but they need to push forward.

Jio is trying to increase the level of indigenous production in their phones and other. I dont see that happening with Xiaomi or Oppo to that extent - take this with a pinch of salt as my exposure to the manufacturing side is slightly lopsided and small.
 
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