Is Piracy Good?

[Zinc]

^ Buddy, pirates may have their reasons and all but they should at least not try to justify and rationalize it by giving lame reasons.

Like for example, I buy my console games not because I hate piracy but only because I don't have the time to get into the complications of pirating console games.

For movies and music, I have almost equal amounts of pirated and original stuff.

But, I don't go about saying that Piracy is good (or Sony is Evil ).

Those two meatboy punks haven't put in that amount of effort and money that goes into making bigger games and that is the reason why they can afford to laugh it off just to sound cool.

 

[jojothedragon]

Spoiler

Do you seriously believe that "One free download = One lost sale?" If a game is not pirated, not even 5% of pirates would contribute to a sale. Gaming industry is similar to the movie industry wherein the good to bad film/game ratio is 5 : 95. Thanks to the internet and gaming websites you only know/care about the major games released by big publishers whereas thousands of below average games are released every year. Do you seriously think anyone would even care trying to play a below average/lesser known games were it not for piracy? You need to look at the bright side of the things as well, piracy does give a lot of exposure to certain games which without a good marketing budget would otherwise go unnoticed. Word of mouth works the best on internet, a pirate will indirectly contribute to a sale at some point if he finds the game worth his time.

In an ideal world, yes piracy would be bad news but as things stand today, one thing is quite clear that piracy cannot be contained. A developer knows the scene better than us, they know what they are getting into. As it is with the movies, if a game is good, it will make money maybe a little less were it not pirated but it will make money nonetheless. You simply cannot ignore that fact. Piracy is not stealing, people just like sharing stuff. Would you and your best friend buy the original copy of the same game of will it make sense for one of you to buy the original and share it with each other. Would that qualify as pirating as well?

As far as morality of pirating stuff is concerned, I think most of us are pure hypocrites, even the ones who buy original games. Tell me something, is your morality only limited to games? Do you not pirate music, movies, TV? Of all the members here who buy original games, how many of them buy original music? or how many of them waits for DVD/Bluray of a hit TV show to come out before watching the same?

In my opinion, if you are really concerned about the morality of pirating stuff than better go the whole way and not pirate anything, period. You are not fooling anyone by saying I wanna support the developers hence I am buying the game but you still carry around a 1 TB collection of your favorite music. Do the rules change here? Is there no hardwork involved in making music, movies or TV? Why the double standards, I ask.

I am not suggesting that everyone should just turn into a pirate but what I want to say is one should stop judging people who do pirate. They have their reasons and you are no saint either.

Too true.

I stopped pirating games but i still have all other kinds of pirated stuff.

 

[pretttt]

WRONG!! if it was pirated 10 billion ****ing times it does not mean I end up on street, it means I've lost 10 billion * price tag.

Once again.. do you seriously believe that?? Think again. Every instance of piracy is NOT a lost sale.

Back when I was studying, if there was no option of pirating, I would've simply not played games at all. As simple as that. It was exactly the same with everyone of my friends. The question of buying a game did not even exist coz there was no way I could've afforded it.

Now, I have a job and have no problem paying for games I like. So, I have actually gone out and bought a lot of the games I had pirated. Small list: Deus Ex, Witcher, Dirt, Race Driver: Grid, Tomb Raider, Mafia, Overlord series, Borderlands, Braid, Torchlight etc.

So, once again, Every instance of piracy is NOT a lost sale!

Whether you want to agree or not, easy availability of games due to Piracy is the reason most people even get into gaming in India.

Also, always remember, a pirate today could be a paying customer tomorrow. Most people in TE are probably like this only. Similarly, if you keep on fukking with your customers all the time, you could end driving them towards piracy.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Do you seriously believe that "One free download = One lost sale?" If a game is not pirated, not even 5% of pirates would contribute to a sale. Gaming industry is similar to the movie industry wherein the good to bad film/game ratio is 5 : 95. Thanks to the internet and gaming websites you only know/care about the major games released by big publishers whereas thousands of below average games are released every year. Do you seriously think anyone would even care trying to play a below average/lesser known games were it not for piracy? You need to look at the bright side of the things as well, piracy does give a lot of exposure to certain games which without a good marketing budget would otherwise go unnoticed. Word of mouth works the best on internet, a pirate will indirectly contribute to a sale at some point if he finds the game worth his time.

In an ideal world, yes piracy would be bad news but as things stand today, one thing is quite clear that piracy cannot be contained. A developer knows the scene better than us, they know what they are getting into. As it is with the movies, if a game is good, it will make money maybe a little less were it not pirated but it will make money nonetheless. You simply cannot ignore that fact. Piracy is not stealing, people just like sharing stuff. Would you and your best friend buy the original copy of the same game of will it make sense for one of you to buy the original and share it with each other. Would that qualify as pirating as well?

As far as morality of pirating stuff is concerned, I think most of us are pure hypocrites, even the ones who buy original games. Tell me something, is your morality only limited to games? Do you not pirate music, movies, TV? Of all the members here who buy original games, how many of them buy original music? or how many of them waits for DVD/Bluray of a hit TV show to come out before watching the same?

In my opinion, if you are really concerned about the morality of pirating stuff than better go the whole way and not pirate anything, period. You are not fooling anyone by saying I wanna support the developers hence I am buying the game but you still carry around a 1 TB collection of your favorite music. Do the rules change here? Is there no hardwork involved in making music, movies or TV? Why the double standards, I ask.

I am not suggesting that everyone should just turn into a pirate but what I want to say is one should stop judging people who do pirate. They have their reasons and you are no saint either.

Wow! brilliant answer dude! Very well put.

 

[kippu]

actually autodesk as a company , knows this trick ... they let people and students pirate it , eventually when they were hooked onto it .... they usually ended up buying it more than not and see how big a company they are now.............. same goes for windows i believe

 

[baccilus]

@Bluffmaster: You made me realise that I am a hypocrite. I have stopped pirating games because now I can afford them and it is less of a hassle. Moreover, a game will entertain me for days and even months but I can't say the same about movies. I can rarely watch a movie more than once and the 2 hour entertainment it provides doesn't justify the cost of a DVD for me. Good thing movie people have other source of income like TV and all.

P.S. I would love to know how much steam games sell in our country during sales..

 

[quixand]

Once again.. do you seriously believe that?? Think again. Every instance of piracy is NOT a lost sale

Try explaining that to somebody in sales.

Do you seriously believe that "One free download = One lost sale?" If a game is not pirated, not even 5% of pirates would contribute to a sale. Gaming industry is similar to the movie industry wherein the good to bad film/game ratio is 5 : 95. Thanks to the internet and gaming websites you only know/care about the major games released by big publishers whereas thousands of below average games are released every year. Do you seriously think anyone would even care trying to play a below average/lesser known games were it not for piracy? You need to look at the bright side of the things as well, piracy does give a lot of exposure to certain games which without a good marketing budget would otherwise go unnoticed. Word of mouth works the best on internet, a pirate will indirectly contribute to a sale at some point if he finds the game worth his time.

In an ideal world, yes piracy would be bad news but as things stand today, one thing is quite clear that piracy cannot be contained. A developer knows the scene better than us, they know what they are getting into. As it is with the movies, if a game is good, it will make money maybe a little less were it not pirated but it will make money nonetheless. You simply cannot ignore that fact. Piracy is not stealing, people just like sharing stuff. Would you and your best friend buy the original copy of the same game of will it make sense for one of you to buy the original and share it with each other. Would that qualify as pirating as well?

As far as morality of pirating stuff is concerned, I think most of us are pure hypocrites, even the ones who buy original games. Tell me something, is your morality only limited to games? Do you not pirate music, movies, TV? Of all the members here who buy original games, how many of them buy original music? or how many of them waits for DVD/Bluray of a hit TV show to come out before watching the same?

In my opinion, if you are really concerned about the morality of pirating stuff than better go the whole way and not pirate anything, period. You are not fooling anyone by saying I wanna support the developers hence I am buying the game but you still carry around a 1 TB collection of your favorite music. Do the rules change here? Is there no hardwork involved in making music, movies or TV? Why the double standards, I ask.

I am not suggesting that everyone should just turn into a pirate but what I want to say is one should stop judging people who do pirate. They have their reasons and you are no saint either.

I agree with every word you say and yet I cannot believe you will condone your own actions. We ARE double standard'ed', and I try my bit by buying a Lamb of God DVD or an Iron Maiden DVD because I love it and don't download it for keeps. I'm not trying to fool anyone here, of course I can't buy everything. I see a lot of people buying stuff from Steam and other channels and I have joined the bandwagon.

In my opinion, if you are really concerned about the morality of pirating stuff than better go the whole way and not pirate anything, period. You are not fooling anyone by saying I wanna support the developers hence I am buying the game but you still carry around a 1 TB collection of your favorite music. Do the rules change here? Is there no hardwork involved in making music, movies or TV? Why the double standards, I ask.

No rules changed here, so what should we do? give up buying games and pirate everything? Or should we slowly give up piracy and start buying more? What say?

Of course devs want their stuff out there reaching the masses, so they should screw the publishers? Really? Is that the thinking that you are trying to profess here? Or what is point anyways?

Why is piracy a crime and why the **** are you trying to force you vigilante philosophy on everybody.

Oh yeah, the IT laws here are not that great, but I'm pretty sure that 1 TB of pirated stuff will get a lesser tenure than 100 TB.

We can try and do it less don't you think? or should we beat our chests and do more of it?

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Once again.. do you seriously believe that?? Think again. Every instance of piracy is NOT a lost sale.

Unfortunately you are so fond of skipping stuff that you did not read this -

Read: After the Napster fiasco, look how Metallica has had to change their stand against piracy. Sometimes availability or lack of it leads people to download them off torrents etc. of course, a comeercially successful band like Metallica can afford to, too. What happens to indie developers? Forget developers anybody in any profession who has just started out.

Microsoft's biggest fear for years has been piracy, but because they haven't been able to stop it they have championed the idea now.

"If you are pirating at all, pirate ours".

Again, my point is that this shit can be pulled of by major brands, independent devs/artists will always suffer because of piracy, they deserve better.

Of course sharing will only benefit the Artist, but to what extent? Games these days can be installed on multiple PCs. Is that not a good deal?

Read carefully : there are exceptions , like the OP. Don't know where you came up with the 5:95 theory but here's mine, next time you are going through IMDB check out how much your favorite indie movie grossed and if it is justified. What could be the major reason why people did not go to the the theater to catch a movie like "Limitless" and saw it at home, give it a thought. I hope you get my point.

If Super Meat boy want me to pirate their stuff I'll gladly say thank you. I love Lamb of God, Metallica - went to see their show last year and will go later this year, and I DO try to buy their stuff, whenever available. (Paying My Dues) I guess. I spend a lot of time handpicking indie music from websites, if they'd make their stuff available in the market I'd pick up my favorites w/o blinking an eye.

Again , atleast I'm buying some, and I'm sure you are too. It only has to increase from this point.

It all comes down to what your philosophy is while trying to make a name/money for yourself. What would you like better? Potential of selling 1000 copies @ $1 or a torrent @ TPB ?

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

[/COLOR]

@Bluffmaster: You made me realise that I am a hypocrite. I have stopped pirating games because now I can afford them and it is less of a hassle. Moreover, a game will entertain me for days and even months but I can't say the same about movies. I can rarely watch a movie more than once and the 2 hour entertainment it provides doesn't justify the cost of a DVD for me. Good thing movie people have other source of income like TV and all.

P.S. I would love to know how much steam games sell in our country during sales..

Good for you man, this was my first buy @ steam this year I ended up spending around 50 USD and got around 8-10 games, which were pretty decent, and most of them were Indie Games.

Last Point /question : Aren't demos supposed to be the samples before buying a game? If you like it buy it else go elsewhere?

 

[Bluffmaster]

^You still don't get it, do you? Nobody is trying to justify piracy here neither am I suggesting anyone to jump on the piracy bandwagon. But I can do whatever the fcuk I please and so can you but in no condition can you start judging me for being a pirate without judging yourself first for the same crime. No one gives a flying donkey's ass if you pay you dues by occasionally buying stuff because it makes you feel good about yourself. You don't get off the hook simply because you try your bit by purchasing a fraction of things you love. A crime is a crime, period. Does it matter if you kill 10 people or a 1000? You are still going away for a murder, aren't you? I am sorry but in my opinion piracy cannot be measured by a scale, it does not make it ok for you to pirate just because you buy the occasional stuff when it pleases you. If that is your way of clearing your conscious then good for you but everyone doesn't have to feel the same way as you.

Will I buy an original copy if my pocket allows? Maybe.

Will I start preaching the choir about anti-piracy without actually completely stopping piracy myself? Hell no.

Stop judging and mind your own effing business is all I am saying. Stop giving so much importance to yourself, no one is getting rich or poor just because you decided to buy/pirate some stuff. But if you are really adamant about going clean than be the change you wanna see in the world first.

P.S : My post isn't directed towards you, I am just speaking in general terms.

 

[quixand]

A crime is a crime, period. Does it matter if you kill 10 people or a 1000

ummm..no Actually it does. Killing 10 people and 1000 have totally different repercussions according to the penal code.

No one gives a flying donkey's ass if you pay you dues by occasionally buying stuff because it makes you feel good about yourself. You don't get off the hook simply because you try your bit by purchasing a fraction of things you love

You have painted a picture w/ extreme blacks and extreme whites, where is the Gray you've talked about in your earlier posts?

Stop judging and mind your own effing business is all I am saying. Stop giving so much importance to yourself,

Ok so why have you posted this thread in the first place? You want an approval from everyone?

no one is getting rich or poor just because you decided to buy/pirate some stuff.

Oh yes. I'd love to save my bucks again, please give it an afterthought.

Will I buy an original copy if my pocket allows? Maybe.

Agreed. Makes me feel better about myself, yes.

Will I start preaching the choir about anti-piracy without actually completely stopping piracy myself? Hell no

Nobody's preaching here, nobody's judging you just buy more stuff. Lol!!

PS:My post isn't directed towards you, I am just speaking in general terms.

I don't think so.

 

[Bluffmaster]

^Well, now that you have dropped down to dissecting my post line by line I won't fuel the fire by quoting your post with another reply. If you read carefully all the posts made by you in this thread, you will realize how stupid some of the things you have said really sound and hence do not justify a reply. I think I have already made my point and it has been understood by people for whom it was intended. You know, whatever floats your boat but I do believe that you ideology is flawed and riddled with a fake sense of pride. I still maintain, my post wasn't particularly directed towards you, too bad you chose to believe that. The purpose of this thread was merely to look at piracy from a different perspective and not to hurt individual beliefs or start flame wars. I apologize if I offended you or anyone intentionally or unintentionally, I hope we can keep the discussion healthy and more open minded from here on.

 

[pretttt]

Try explaining that to somebody in sales.

What is there to explain? They know that very well too, but they want to propagate the idea that they are losing billions of $, so that they get dumb laws passed by the corrupt politicians. Read up on MPAA, RIAA. Worse thing is, now they are using the US government to push for these laws in countries that are traditionally liberal about such things like NZ and Sweden.

Unfortunately you are so fond of skipping stuff that you did not read this -

What exactly did I skip there? If you are pointing about indie developers, then look at the OP. It doesnt get more indie than this. They are doing pretty well. This brings me to the point I made in my first post "A good game will make money".

Again, my point is that this shit can be pulled of by major brands, independent devs/artists will always suffer because of piracy, they deserve better.

Hmm.. actually indies are the ones who are pretty cool about this. It is the big publishers who are crying hoarse about it. If anything, the past 2-3 years are like something of a golden period for the indies.

Of course sharing will only benefit the Artist, but to what extent? Games these days can be installed on multiple PCs. Is that not a good deal?

What exactly is new about this? This is there since the time games started on PCs. But, you are still missing the point.

My 1st post: Good games will make money and they will get pirated.
My 2nd post: Every pirated copy is not equal to a lost sale. If piracy did not exist, a lot of people would simply not play games.

Don't know where you came up with the 5:95 theory

What 5:95 are you talking about?? Did you even read my posts?

but here's mine, next time you are going through IMDB check out how much your favorite indie movie grossed and if it is justified. What could be the major reason why people did not go to the the theater to catch a movie like "Limitless" and saw it at home, give it a thought. I hope you get my point.

When exactly did this movie come out? Did it even release in India? I dont remember seeing any movie of this name in recent times. In fact, I dont think I even saw a torrent of this. OK, I checked this out in IMDB. Here are the Box office details

Box Office
Budget: $27,000,000 (estimated) 
Opening Weekend: $18,907,302 (USA) (20 March 2011) (2756 Screens) 
Gross: $79,174,224 (USA) (26 June 2011)

The movie made $80 fukkin millions!!! What more do you need dude!!??? Is this not enough?? Its budget was only $27 mil.

It all comes down to what your philosophy is while trying to make a name/money for yourself. What would you like better? Potential of selling 1000 copies @ $1 or a torrent @ TPB ?

I dont really understand what is the point here.

 

[quixand]

@Bluff, trust me there's no way in the world that post was not a direct attack, and I had no other option but to reply in an uncivilized way.

I do read most of your posts, I agree w/ a lot of them and don't agree with some (Got, much?), I do respect your posts because most of them make sense but your thinking here is in binary.

Truth is my philosophy for some time has been to try and buy more stuff and less *ahem stuff. That is the bottom-line. What's wrong with that ? If you believe that it is instilling a fake sense of pride, you are totally entitled to your opinion nobody stopping you from doing what you are doing everyday. I don't spend money on games to showoff or anything I cut down my spending on other things to afford a game. I'm not putting this info here to gain sympathy etc, just an fyi.

If you can present facts to back up your claims that piracy don't hurt anyone, I'd save some money. Peace out.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

What is there to explain? They know that very well too, but they want to propagate the idea that they are losing billions of $, so that they get dumb laws passed by the corrupt politicians. Read up on MPAA, RIAA. Worse thing is, now they are using the US government to push for these laws in countries that are traditionally liberal about such things like NZ and Sweden.

What exactly did I skip there? If you are pointing about indie developers, then look at the OP. It doesnt get more indie than this. They are doing pretty well. This brings me to the point I made in my first post "A good game will make money".

Hmm.. actually indies are the ones who are pretty cool about this. It is the big publishers who are crying hoarse about it. If anything, the past 2-3 years are like something of a golden period for the indies.

What exactly is new about this? This is there since the time games started on PCs. But, you are still missing the point.

My 1st post: Good games will make money and they will get pirated.

My 2nd post: Every pirated copy is not equal to a lost sale. If piracy did not exist, a lot of people would simply not play games.
What 5:95 are you talking about?? Did you even read my posts?
When exactly did this movie come out? Did it even release in India? I dont remember seeing any movie of this name in recent times. In fact, I dont think I even saw a torrent of this. OK, I checked this out in IMDB. Here are the Box office details

Box Office

Budget: $27,000,000 (estimated) 

Opening Weekend: $18,907,302 (USA) (20 March 2011) (2756 Screens) 

Gross: $79,174,224 (USA) (26 June 2011)

The movie made $80 fukkin millions!!! What more do you need dude!!??? Is this not enough?? Its budget was only $27 mil.
I dont really understand what is the point here.

Is that not enough? That is subjective, and exactly my point. Could piracy have stopped it from earning more? I wonder.

You sound like a discarded Metallica fan who decided to break all legit Metallica CD's because they sued Napster and your free shit is blocked.

And I said Limitless because it came to my mind first, try some other movies I'm pretty sure there are a lot which haven't sold well, and could well be because of piracy.

What 5:95 are you talking about?? Did you even read my posts?

5:95 things was bluff's post silly. Read before you knead.

My 1st post: Good games will make money and they will get pirated.

My 2nd post: Every pirated copy is not equal to a lost sale. If piracy did not exist, a lot of people would simply not play games.

1st point: No disagreement.

2nd point: Every pirated copy is not equal to a lost sale. Retarded

 

[quixand]

double post........

 

[Zinc]

I guess this hackneyed discussion should be nipped in the bud, may be by the mods.

Otherwise the only thing that comes out of this kind of discussion is people cursing the heck out of each other

 

[pretttt]

I cant believe I'm actually arguing about this at 3.30 AM!! I must be out of mind! Oh well..

Is that not enough? That is subjective, and exactly my point. Could piracy have stopped it from earning more? I wonder.

keep wondering. But that is a bad example for whatever point you were trying to make.

You sound like a discarded Metallica fan who decided to break all legit Metallica CD's because they sued Napster and your free shit is blocked.

Really now? Metallica vs Napster?? That was more than 10 years ago!! Also, why would the so called "free shit" be "blocked"?

And I said Limitless because it came to my mind first, try some other movies I'm pretty sure there are a lot which haven't sold well, and could well be because of piracy.

I'm not going on wild goose chase. You are trying to make a point, you bring the evidence.

5:95 things was bluff's post silly. Read before you knead.

Then why did you address that to me silly? Maybe you should read before whatever it is that you are kneading.

1st point: No disagreement.
2nd point: Every pirated copy is not equal to a lost sale. Retarded

I cant force you to agree on this. But, its just common sense.

 

[quixand]

I cant believe I'm actually arguing about this at 3.30 AM!! I must be out of mind! Oh well..

keep wondering. But that is a bad example for whatever point you were trying to make.

Really now? Metallica vs Napster?? That was more than 10 years ago!! Also, why would the so called "free shit" be "blocked"?

I'm not going on wild goose chase. You are trying to make a point, you bring the evidence.
Then why did you address that to me silly? Maybe you should read before whatever it is that you are kneading.

I cant force you to agree on this. But, its just common sense.

Don't worry you can stop posting whenever you like, there's no argument w/ you.

I made my point, it's very convenient for you to say that it has made "enough".

Metallica v Napster is a prime example of piracy and p2p sharing, your comments don't make it irrelevant here.

What 5:95 are you talking about?? Did you even read my posts?

Then why did you address that to me silly? Maybe you should read before whatever it is that you are kneading.

Read before you post, silly boy. That was part of a post, you assumed it was addressed to you. Keep replying and keep making an a$$ out of yourself.

 

[Aman27deep]

Gannu bhai this thread needs some cleaning up? *ahem ahem*

 

[pretttt]

Gannu bhai this thread needs some cleaning up? *ahem ahem*

hmm.. yeah. I agree. I'm done with this thread. Sorry for ruining it for others...

 

[tufel]

Slightly off topic but do people realise that consoles like Playstation 2 would never have been successful if it hadn't been for piracy?

 

[raksrules]

I think the most popular thing because of piracy is Pron
I am yet to see any person i my life who paid for a legitimate (not those roadside dvd vendors) copy of a p0rn movie

 

[Tarcxy]

If this so called Piracy hadnt existed or hadnt been so prominent, we PC gamers would have had all those games which are today called console exclusives (well not all, but atleast those dual console exclusives). Believe it or not, Piracy ruined PC gaming and the same will one day happen to consoles too..

Yeah, yeah PC lover here