Current Affairs Israel attacks Iran.

I don't see why we would want to oppose in the first place.

How are we losing if Iran tilts west?

The Gulf is an American ally. We have most of our diaspora there and they won't stop showering Modi with awards every time he visits the region.

What the Americans are doing there since the 70s is what the British Indian army did for 150 years up to WW2. Provide security from the Suez to Singapore. Until these Gulf countries came into being it was Indian currency that circulated there. That era's equivalent of today's dollar.
If Iran tilts west , do you think the west would like status quo ? We will have to deal with 2 hostile neighbours whose missiles would be just 1000 kms away .
The Sunni are American allies because they cannot sell oil and they have to sell in USD . They operate on a captive basis . For Modi he is not bothered about India . His only problem in life is the health and wealth of his cronies . He does not even have time to think of his wife .
 
The same as far as we are concerned. Pakistan's utility is in the the harm it can cause to India.
More to China. Tell me, with this new found US bonhomie, how willing is China to give Pakistan the JF-20 :D

Because US will not give the Paks any more F16's. That stopped as far back as 2008. Pakistan have since had to rely on 2nd hand from Jordan or elsewhere.

I keep saying, these days any Pak rapprochement with the US is a bigger headache for Beijing than New Delhi. China has many investments there isn't it. Not India.
Iran cannot do to India what Pakistan can.
We can handle the Paks
 
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More to China. Tell me, with this new found US bonhomie, how willing is China to give Pakistan the JF-20 :D

I keep saying, these days any Pak rapprochement with the US is a bigger headache for Beijing than New Delhi. China has many investments there isn't it. Not India.

We can handle the Paks
You always tend to assume USA and China are opposing each other . It is the reverse . China and the USA while seemingly opposing each other are partners in manufacturing , research . That is why the Russians prefer India and not China .

The Chinese investments in Pakistan is not so significant to what they have invested in African countries which are small . If it vanishes in thin air , it would not matter much .
 
You always tend to assume USA and China are opposing each other .
Geopolitically. That started with Trump's first term. Biden continued it and I don't see any relenting with Trump's second term. In fact you might say he's tightening the screws further on China.
It is the reverse . China and the USA while seemingly opposing each other are partners in manufacturing , research .
That used to be the case. Trump's tariffs are a clear sign of the US wanting to decouple from China.
That is why the Russians prefer India and not China .
That goes back to the cold war after Kissinger foolishly advised rapprochement with China. Great idea when the cold war was on because it split the soviet military into defending two fronts. Not so great after the cold war ended because it just enabled a future adversary and had it not been for Trump then things would have still continued.

Iran btw is currently doing the same for China. Forcing the US to defend on two fronts.

This was also the period that Mao was challenging the soviets for leadership over the communist world by accusing the soviets of having sold out or weakened their stance since Lenin. Look up the Sino soviet split.
The Chinese investments in Pakistan is not so significant to what they have invested in African countries which are small . If it vanishes in thin air , it would not matter much .
CPEC is the belt & road's flagship project. If it fails the rest will follow.
 
And Iraq was a success. Iraqi shias (majority) and Kurds are no longer under the boot.
Handing over Iraq to shias gave Iran land access to Israel. Didn't turn out so well. The recent regime change in Syria was done specifically to block that access.

Apparently, someone was explaining the ethnic makeup of Iraq to Bush Jr before the invasions. On being told about the shia and sunni divide, he said "but I thought they were all moslems".
We can handle the Paks
Doesn't anyone remember the 80s?

I would say more power to Israel. Totally ok with whatever they want to do in Iran. I am sure the arabs are on board at this point.

But giving the christian zionists of america a win will embolden them. This is a blood thirsty bunch with a bizarre eschatology (not very different from the ayatollas, but with a lot more power).
 
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Shah's son is calling for an uprising


Iran will not fall into civil war or instability

@TEUser2K1




Trump is doing the exact opposite of what he promised from deportation to starting new wars.
So Trump never said anything about Iran on the campaign trail?


We still don't know what he has in store for Iran but somehow everyone seems to already know. Now if Iran also believes that we might get an early resolution. Meaning an unconditional surrender as Trump demanded.


Guess there is a Epstien client list after all.
I wouldn't hold my breath that there is anything to harm Trump

 
Iran will not fall into civil war or instability
If one take references from results of Obama's jasmine revolution in nearby countries, they will inevitably have to. Considering this is a prince who is going to take over, these regions tend to behave in groups with own tribal hivemind interests, of fundamentalists, influence of religion, neighbors, etc. etc. Iran is ready to implode and the result is only going to be massive human suffering.
So Trump never said anything about Iran on the campaign trail?
Trump always blamed Iran deal by Obama was a weak one and wanted a re-write.
Even otherwise, general saying goes who ever signed a deal with 'murrica can expect to be crushed in ensuing years.
 
His father had not only supported pak in 1971, he apparently threatened to attack India if we made a move on sindh.
Different era. You forgot to mention the Arabs too supported Pakistan.

But is that how the Arabs behaved during Balakote and operation sindoor? Not at all.

So what would Iran under new leadership gain by siding with Pakistan?

Keeping in mind we'd be buying lots of oil & gas from them.

Just see the difference in '69 when the Paks sabotaged our invitation to the OIC meet in Morocco and fifty years later. Where India gets invited to the OIC and the Paks stayed out in protest.

Yeah, it's a different era now.
 
Iran will not surrender, may let the country to implode and lead to civil rife.
That would be the least cost option


Iran has two weeks

Coon lingo, not for international politics.
He's the American president. He needs to be understood. How he speaks is irrelevant. I find Trump to be an excellent communicator. Very clear and engaging.
btw, only reason I wanted Trump to win, let the world see what true 'murica is.
What is 'true' America for you?

For me it's the US as provider of security post WW2 to the three regions mentioned earlier. A guarantor of SLOCs from interference. An enabler of global trade. A hegemon.

The Indian preference for multi-polar precludes the chance of any power becoming a hegemon. That's the draw. India isn't necessarily onboard for a world dominated by the US or any one else for that matter, India included. This gives us the most room for maneuver. More strategic autonomy.

Would such a world be stable? Friction is bound to buildup and the formation of power blocs will be the same. But where would deterrence come from. A hegemon provides that. The final say in any matter.

This is a debatable point. Would a world with/without a hegemon be more stable or not? I'll throw this question at the General and see what he has to say.

Without a hegemon, I think the 19th century and an understanding of British power politics in that period is how it will be. Think great game everywhere. Gunboat diplomacy. Areas of influence by major regional powers. This will not be a peaceful period like we had post WW2. It will be a period of contestation everywhere. Because every major power sees opportunity or feels threatened by another. That's a recipe for constant conflict which we are starting to see but is being misinterpreted as WW3. The current conflict we see will be precursors for WW3 if regional power imbalances aren't righted. Ukraine is an attempt to resolve the imbalance between Russia & NATO. Gaza/Iran is about Iran vs Israel & Gulf Arabs. If Russia or Israel lose then we are heading into more conflict.

A common reason wars happen is when one belligerent sees an opportunity. An opportunity to grab something. In the past this sort of contestation led to WW1 & WW2. Because after all this contestation we have to have semi-final and then final with gold medal for the winner. A hegemon is crowned whether he likes it or not.

Trump's global security assessment in his first term concluded as much by stating we were entering an era of competition and the US had to be prepared for such a world.

The US only has to worry about China as a future contender. At the end of the 18th century, globally speaking, the British were up against the French & Spanish. At the end of the 19th century, Brits were up against the US, Germany & Japan. The only reason I think the Brits never went to war with the US is because of British investments there.

The trend is for a dominating power to counter a rising one. Athens vs Sparta for example. Out of sixteen such matchups throughout history only four resulted in no war between the reigning hegemon and a rising one. Britan vs US is one of them.
 
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