Just received a warning mail from SONY!!!!!!

[artikle]

Before starting with the points:

PIRACY IS STEALING. IT IS AS BAD AND AS PUNISHABLE AS ANY OTHER FORM OF STEALING​

Now to the points:
First:

It makes perfect sense to ban such Jail broken consoles online because the consoles are supposed to offer a platform for fair play online and who knows how a Jail broken console can be manipulated for getting an unfair advantage in online games. Further more Sony tests their network with the original firmware and who knows how a non standard/manipulated console is going to behave on the network, it may cause problems or wreak the experience for other legit users. Then there is also the case of security. Whats to say that a console that can run unsigned code cannot be used to run malware to attack Sony's networks?

You are right. I am wrong. Whatever points you have mentioned in the above quote are correct.

Next:

The fundamental flaw in the reasoning you put forth is the assumption that there is no cost associated with the creation of the software. The cost of a physical product can be broken down into the cost of R&D (physical effort) and the cost of components (physical material). While there is very little physical in terms of material for software, the physical effort is as real as any other product and in most cases a lot more. The cost of each copy of a software does not cover the entire cost spent on creating the software and there is a min number of sales required to even reach a break even point.

Why would I assume that there is no expenditure for creating the software? All I am telling is the nature of the products is different. As you have said the cost of a game doesnt equate to the software it consists of, but in case of cars it is different. There is nothing about piracy, for or against in this post at all. There is a difference between the ways in which profit is made and expenditures are covered in these two industries, that is all. Iam not saying you can pirate or steal because they are different or the effect of stealing one is less than the other or anything.

There is a major difference between the two cases. Let me explain with an analogy. The Indian railways runs trains whether you travel by them or not. So lets assume the two cases

- You do not buy a ticket when you didn't travel
- You did not buy a ticket when you are traveling.

Do you think there is no difference between the two cases considering the train is going to run regardless of you. Would the TT leave you alone if you are traveling without a ticket because there are enough empty seats and the train is going to run anyway even if those seats are not filled?

No, the TT would not leave me alone and so wouldnt SCE or any other production house if they caught me pirating. They would sue me to death. But the problem with the analogy is people wont go roaming about on train just because they can do so without a ticket. People will go on a train only if it is a necessity. Then they either buying a ticket or travel ticketless. But piracy (atleast in India) is not like that. You can buy original games if:
1. Yours parents are rich, Or,
2. You are earning.

Most of the people having PS3s in India either have them gifted by their relatives in the states or bug their (not so rich)parents till they buy them the 25000 worth console.(Iam not talking about people who belong to the categories in the numbered points. They constitute a very small percentage of the people with PS3s in India.) They dont buy original games regardless of whether pirated games are available or not. If there are no pirated game available they would just play the games that came bundled with the PS3 or wait till their relatives return back with some games again. So the production house is not going to lose money whether they pirate the game or skip the game as they are anyway not going to buy the game, which is not the case with the train. You travel whether ticketless travelling is a safe option or not. You can travel ticketless if it can be an option or travel buying a ticket, there are no other things. The percentage stuff is based on an informal survey I did some time back using friends, relatives etc from all over the country asking them to ask from their friends, colleagues etc.

Again there is a difference between the two cases. In practicality you require at least a min number of sales to happen before resales can happen without people having to wait till the end of the world for their turn to play the game. So in essence, company is at least getting some amount of money from the first hand sales. In case of piracy, you don't even require a single copy of the game to be sold. In most cases, the games are leaked before or during the process of replication and put up for download. So practically its possible for a company to make 0 sales in with piracy.

But people buying second hand doesnt guarantee any first hand sales for the company nor do they give any part of the second hand sale revenue to the company. People who were buying first hand would do that regardless of people buying in secondhand. Just because the second hand buyers are pirating doesnt stop the first hand buyers from buying.

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Pirates are gonna pirate the game and make pathetic excuses for not buying the game. They are blaming the companies. Right, blame the owner who is robbed instead of the thief.

What I think is they are not making excuses. They are giving REASONS.
For example:
I murdered him because I hated him.
I became a smuggler because I wanted to become rich and fearful.

When someone says Iam pirating a game because the company priced it too high, he is not blaming the company. He is telling the reason why HE commited a crime. He is not saying he shouldnt be punished. It becomes an excuse only if he says that. Poeple dont go around commiting crimes without reasons, do they?

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As per all the dudes who are saying Piracy is not stealing or cannot be compared to stealing a physical tangible device have a long way to go in life. Stealing an idea be it theoretical or implemented is just as bad. The long post above this triggered a vivid image in my life. Am sure this has happened to most of us. We come up with a real good idea at office and someone takes the credit or makes it their own. Does not ones blood boil. Now imagine the plight when a product has been created, then some one else (pirate) makes a replica and sells it as the master it was copied from. Knock-off, copy, replica, plagiarism, and stealing are all one and the same. Just because one is not facing a loss or missing an object does not negate stealing or its synonyms.

Feels like people are trying to soothe their morals from the face of guilt..!

First, we dont have to go a long way in life, you dont need to even reach office, school is sufficient for getting your ideas stolen and getting your blood to boil. Moreover, the developers are salaried employees of the production house who job is develop the game in whichever way the company wants they to deliver the end product and move on to the next project assigned to them. They dont feel bad in the way you described because they are being compensated for what they are doing and they are being given recognition for that. In piracy you dont say you made the game and distribute it, do you? The original credit for making the game always goes to the developers. The production house also doesnt have to feel in this regard as they are not the ones who made the game. They would feel bad only about the loss of money. And I never said piracy is not stealing or is not equal to stealing physical things. I am only saying it is different. I also said that both forms of stealing are EQUALLY BAD and EQUALLY PUNISHABLE, so I dont know where the soothing the morals part come up.
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That was long.... I dont think I will be posting the replies for the replies if any, the next time round for anyone. I am lazy and exhausted. Also dont mind typos or missing words in between, I am too exhausted to check and change.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

But piracy (atleast in India) is not like that. You can buy original games if:

1. Yours parents are rich, Or,

2. You are earning.

Most of the people having PS3s in India either have them gifted by their relatives in the states or bug their (not so rich)parents till they buy them the 25000 worth console.(Iam not talking about people who belong to the categories in the numbered points. They constitute a very small percentage of the people with PS3s in India.) They dont buy original games regardless of whether pirated games are available or not. If there are no pirated game available they would just play the games that came bundled with the PS3 or wait till their relatives return back with some games again. So the production house is not going to lose money whether they pirate the game or skip the game as they are anyway not going to buy the game

Only the contrary, they constituted a majority both in India and outside, remember that PS3 was un hackable till a while back and people who got the console were still buying original games pretty well. After the JB came out, there are many who stopped buying originals. So piracy did effect the revenue of game developers.

My analogy with regards to the train ticket was meant to explain that there is a difference between not paying when you are not using a product/service and not paying when you are using a product/service. It might make no difference to the revenue of the company, but it is still illegal

But people buying second hand doesnt guarantee any first hand sales for the company nor do they give any part of the second hand sale revenue to the company. People who were buying first hand would do that regardless of people buying in secondhand. Just because the second hand buyers are pirating doesnt stop the first hand buyers from buying.

People buying second hand doesn't guarantee first hand sales, but people buying first hand is a necessity for people buying second hand. Second hand sales is possible only when there are enough first hand sales and those people are ready to sell. Piracy on the other hand directly reduces first hand sales. So second hand buying does not have the same impact on a developer as piracy. The relation is like

- First hand sales are essential for second hand sales.

- First hand sales are reduced because of piracy.

What I think is they are not making excuses. They are giving REASONS.

For example:

I murdered him because I hated him.

I became a smuggler because I wanted to become rich and fearful.

When someone says Iam pirating a game because the company priced it too high, he is not blaming the company. He is telling the reason why HE committed a crime. He is not saying he shouldn't be punished. It becomes an excuse only if he says that. People don't go around committing crimes without reasons, do they?

The correct term to use here is 'justification', not 'reason'. A justification is something people use to downplay their own guilt and put the blame on someone or something else, quite often as a means of easing their own conscience.

"I murdered him because I hated him."

is a way of blaming the victim for having something about him that made you hate him in order to justify your own act of killing him.

"I had to steal because my job doesn't pay well"

is a way of blaming the job/employer for not paying you well in order to justify your act of stealing.

"I pirate because the games are priced too high"

is a way of blaming the developer in order to justify piracy.

"I pirate in order teach a lesson to the developers."

is again a way of blaming the developer and covering up your own doing as an act of justice.

Moreover, the developers are salaried employees of the production house who job is develop the game in whichever way the company wants they to deliver the end product and move on to the next project assigned to them.

They don't feel bad in the way you described because they are being compensated for what they are doing and they are being given recognition for that.

Firstly a lot of developers working for product/game companies are much more passionate about their work than what you seem to think. Secondly how are they even going to get compensated if the company is not earning enough money from the game?

 

[asingh]

First, we dont have to go a long way in life, you dont need to even reach office, school is sufficient for getting your ideas stolen and getting your blood to boil. Moreover, the developers are salaried employees of the production house who job is develop the game in whichever way the company wants they to deliver the end product and move on to the next project assigned to them. They dont feel bad in the way you described because they are being compensated for what they are doing and they are being given recognition for that. In piracy you dont say you made the game and distribute it, do you? The original credit for making the game always goes to the developers. The production house also doesnt have to feel in this regard as they are not the ones who made the game. They would feel bad only about the loss of money. And I never said piracy is not stealing or is not equal to stealing physical things. I am only saying it is different. I also said that both forms of stealing are EQUALLY BAD and EQUALLY PUNISHABLE, so I dont know where the soothing the morals part come up.

When your ideas get stolen which are directly bound to monetary and/or fiscal mechanisms then you will feel it more. That is known as professionalism. I gave an example of 'office+ideas' so you could understand the corollary of what organizations might feel when their proprietary or intellectual rights are breached, it was not about employees who work for game development firms. We are not discussing their plight. You mentioned that even in piracy the developers gets the credit -- well that is not enough. As you before said about tangibility, in real-world scenarios that translates to $$$$$....!

I know you understand what piracy is, but did not support your views on the prior page.

 

[hellgate]

Only the contrary, they constituted a majority both in India and outside, remember that PS3 was un hackable till a while back and people who got the console were still buying original games pretty well. After the JB came out, there are many who stopped buying originals. So piracy did effect the revenue of game developers.

I do fall in this category.

 

[artikle]

Only wanted to clear up the developer part, but thought I will cover everything quickly:

Ofcourse many developers are passionate about their work, I dont know what made it seems like I thought otherwise. But isnt recognition and appreciation the most important thing they want and strive for? That is the thing which drives them and keeps them even when their pay goes down sometimes. I like developers And the money part, actually that was not what I wanted to talk about in that post, it was a mistake.

regarding secondhand, I agree with your relation, but Iam talking about advising people to buy second hand instead of pirating. See it like this:

-There are many first hand buyers

-Some part of those "first hand sales" got reduced due to piracy

-But this has nothing to do with the second hand buyer, as he either has to buy a second hand one which becomes a little difficult due to less first hands or pirate, both of which is not going effect the company.

Iam talking only of a person who wont buy a first hand game at all. This holds true everywhere in all my posts.

regarding the train thing, I never said it as not illegal

and about the percentage, i still stand on what i say, percentage of 1. and 2. from my previous post having a PS3 is less in India but due to the sheer size of India's population this still sums upto quite a large number which explains the sales.(not talking about rest of the world)

and I think crimes cant be justified. I you hate someone it is your problem, justifying the murder is meaningless. I decided to think they are "reasons" because I thought people are not dumb enough to justify their crime, but they are doing so, I need to change my view of people.

And that "teach the developers a lesson" thing, I never heard anyone say that and I think it is extremely dumb and meaningless. I hope no one said it here

 

[sugat123]

If you commit a crime, the court will punish you regardless of the reason. If you had a justification, it can only reduce your term of sentence or give less severe punishment. Regardless, crime was commited. No matter what justification you give, you did the crime, you are gonna get punished. Similarly, piracy is a crime. No matter what justification you give it is a crime.

Second hand sales are not equivalent to piracy. Second hand market helps ppl to sell their games so that they can buy new ones. In US, Gamestop is the biggest second hand games retailer i.e.buying second hand games are legal. Piracy is not legal. There are no legal shops selling pirated games.

Again, gaming is a luxury, not necessity. People who can buy a 25k console can also buy games. If you can't buy games on console, don't buy it. My friends have car, I can't afford a car, hence I don't buy it. I can buy a second hand car which is legal. I don't steal a car, stealing is a crime.

Normaly, this are kind of execuses given by pirates :

1) Game too costly - (Don't buy it or buy it later when price drops or buy second hand)

2) Game is very short - (Don't buy it or buy it later when price drops or buy second hand)

3) The game has bad reviews, so it won't sale anyway -(this is akin to saying the new nokia mobile is horrible compared to some xyz phone, i will steal it. Efforts were gone to create it. )

4) Game doesn't have xyz features - (Don't buy it)

the list goes on

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Ok, I have taken a anti-piracy stand but I just want you guys to know that I am not acting holier than thou. I too was once a pirate and have pirated games, music and movies. I was a student and didn't have any money to spend on luxuries. But now I earn and have straiten up my act. I buy all the games that I want to play. (except last three CODs which I got*ahem copies* from my friend and I am not proud of it). For music, I use youtube, imeem etc if I want to hear something and not buy. Similarly for the movies i use streaming sites like youtube or youku.

It's commonsense, we don't need to play every game or listen every song or watch every movie. Just restrict our choices.

There is general (mis)understanding among ppl that since software sells shitloads in 'foreign' countries, we not buying it won't make any difference. If it doesn't make difference then why are they here to sell it?

 

[artikle]

Piracy is a crime! Does this part of my posts become invisible! Yes courts will punish you. Your giving a justification doesnt do anything. Iam saying the same thing. I didnt say second hand sales are illegal. But you cant say dont buy a console if I cant buy the games. If I want to spend my money on buying a console so be it! BTW AutoCAD won a case in 2010 that secondhand sales of software are illegal. The judge says people are only licensees if the software and cannot sell it again as used. The same thing can be extended to games and there are many cases in court regarding the same. Iam just telling you this FYI and not to show that it is illegal or something. Game publishers hate it too.THQ: No sympathy for second hand game buyers | bit-gamer.net

If all game sales are made online then we will have one point less to talk about(no second sales)

And as you are saying that the solutions to the reasons you gave is "dont buy it" may be the pirates listened to your advice and then said:

Look I followed your advice and didnt buy the game, I pirated it!:rofl:

(The above sentence was meant to be a joke. Sorry if it is not amusing)

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My usage of "I" in some parts of these posts is general and doesnt refer to me.

Some might think Iam supporting piracy but Im not if it is not obvious in my posts.

Iam not evil.

I got my PS3 last month and I bought 5 (original)games up till now.

Not that I never used ahem stuff. I dont know anyone in India who havent used any kind of ahem stuff except maybe just-borns.

And I think there is no point in talking about all this. Sorry for realizing this now. Please read this post and forget that you have read it.

 

[comp@ddict]

chill dudes with long answers in point form, it's not an exam..

 

[artikle]

^:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: yeah. This time I promise this is my last post in this thread. I think everyone should follow suit. This is wasting everyones time and obviously leading to no where.