Hello all, this summer I bought two 1 ton lloyd hot and cold ac. The cooling performance of both ac is pretty good but I spent extra just to get a nice warm experience in winters. Shockingly, both ac are total junk when it comes to heating the room. Both ac can manage a max of 3-5 degree temperature difference compared to outside. The technician who came to check the ac was insisting that this is how ac works in heating mode. He had a temperature sensor and according to it, the outside temperature near ac compressor was about 22 degree, room temperature was 15 degree and the ac managed to raise room temperature to only 26 degree directly below it. This is after running the ac for half an hour at max settings. Only 5-6 foot away, in the other corner of the room, the temperature reading was 22 degree. The technician was standing on a stool directly below the ac trying to feel the hot air lol . It is difficult to stand below the same ac in summers because it chills so much. So this junk of an ac is doing nothing to heat the room while still consuming electricity. One ac is installed in a top floor room with compressor facing the sun still it chills the room and I never use it below 25 degree in summers. Ac indoor unit has a sticker which says -10 to 50 degree operating range. This is outright fraud imo. I want to know member's experience of hot and cold ac in heating mode before I file another complaint.
Lloyd hot and cold ac query
- Thread starter powervgx
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Operating range means the AC works in temperatures from -10 to 50deg, not that it will cool or heat up the room that much.
Please read the post again. Operating range means, ac is supposed to be working as expected in the operating range, ie keeping the room at a comfortable temperature in both summers and winters. I have mentioned that the ac is maintaining a max temperature difference of 3-5 degree in heating mode. Since the operating range starts from -10 so ac will be able to increase the temperature to a max -5 degree which is still worse than freezing cold. In summers the ac easily bring down the temperature from 40-45 degree to a comfortable 22-25 degree that is a massive 15-20 degree difference. In winters, it is just 3-5 degree which is a shame.
rdst_1
Juggernaut
Isn't 22 degrees warm enough for you? It would be for most people. Hot and cold ACs don't seem to be manufactured for extreme cold. But if it is able to keep the room at 22,it would be good enough for me.
Also, do you know what's the mechanism of heat generation in this. If it is only working in reverse, that is dumping the compressor heat inside instead of the cold air, then it will never heat as good as a heater. The reason behind is the laws of thermodynamics. Since the outside air is already quite cold, the compressor won't be able to cool them a lot further, thereby generating less heat. These devices are known as heat pumps and don't work too well in very cold conditions.
Also, do you know what's the mechanism of heat generation in this. If it is only working in reverse, that is dumping the compressor heat inside instead of the cold air, then it will never heat as good as a heater. The reason behind is the laws of thermodynamics. Since the outside air is already quite cold, the compressor won't be able to cool them a lot further, thereby generating less heat. These devices are known as heat pumps and don't work too well in very cold conditions.
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I think I mentioned everything clearly or maybe I should have been more articulate. The ac maintained 22 degree when the outside temperature was also 20-22 degree. At night, when the temperature falls the ac simply fails. The ac fails to maintain even 15 degree when the outside temperature is 7-10 degree.
My location has a minimum temperature of 5 degree not lower than that at any point of time. Most of the times when we want to turn on the ac, the temperature is 8-10 degree.
If it is thermodynamically limited to add just 3-5 degree to the room temperature then it is obviously false marketing claim and a fraud.
Anyone else using hot and cold ac in 5-10 degree areas?
My location has a minimum temperature of 5 degree not lower than that at any point of time. Most of the times when we want to turn on the ac, the temperature is 8-10 degree.
If it is thermodynamically limited to add just 3-5 degree to the room temperature then it is obviously false marketing claim and a fraud.
Anyone else using hot and cold ac in 5-10 degree areas?
rdst_1
Juggernaut
That's not good. Had you enquired about heating performance during the purchase? Try escalating with Lloyd or ask them in writing about the heating performance that is expected from this unit. When we had moved to Himachal, even we were tempted to buy a Hot and Cold AC, but then it turned out that we didn't really need an AC even for peak summer so we dropped the idea.
From what I remember from thermodynamics classes in college, it is more difficult to further cool, what is already cold. So it is finding difficult to cool down the air which is already at 5 degrees. Since it can't cool that down further with the heat exchange, it is not able to provide enough heat back to the inside environment.
From what I remember from thermodynamics classes in college, it is more difficult to further cool, what is already cold. So it is finding difficult to cool down the air which is already at 5 degrees. Since it can't cool that down further with the heat exchange, it is not able to provide enough heat back to the inside environment.
Haven't enquired much. I thought ac works great in summers so heating should be fine too since my place has a extreme minimum temperature of about 5 degree. Normally it is 7-8 degree. I was expecting to get about 25 degree when the outside is at 8-10. I saw a few YouTube videos and read a few amazon reviews but those were of lg and the people seemed satisfied. If the heating effect is such a gimmick then there should be someone complaining about it somewhere.
Anyone else using hot and cold ac do share your experience.
Heat pumps when its working it heating mode. Will not work below a certain temperature if you look at the manuals it should be mentioned.For eg AO smith heat pump water heater for example doesn't work below 10c . Now its supposed to heat water upto 50c with heat pump but just because it says it works upto 10c doesn't mean it will still heat the water to 50c when the temperature of ambient is 10c.
When they say ac cools at even 52c is summer doesn't mean that it will cool to 20c at that temperature.
Now that aside, if they didn't vacuum the lines when they installed it, then its performance will drop this is especially felt when the ambient temperature is at both of the extreme ends.
If you are running long lines/pipes from outdoor unit more then 3m, they will have to add refrigerant to compensate.
When they say ac cools at even 52c is summer doesn't mean that it will cool to 20c at that temperature.
Now that aside, if they didn't vacuum the lines when they installed it, then its performance will drop this is especially felt when the ambient temperature is at both of the extreme ends.
If you are running long lines/pipes from outdoor unit more then 3m, they will have to add refrigerant to compensate.
The temperature is not at extreme because the brand claims that the ac works at minus 10 while I expected it to work at plus 8 or 10 degree. My ac is adding 3-5 degree extra to the room when the outside is at 8-10 degree which is horrible. I don't think they vaccum the lines while installing.
The technician checked the gas pressure and it was 170 for r32 refrigerant. There was some gas leak when he was checking. I am not running any longer lines.
Not vacuuming the lines means they used the refrigerant to flush the lines, that alone is enough to make the machine under perform.
Most temperature for AC sold in india is for hot climates. But If you are leaving in areas of high temperatures in excess of 40c or low temperatures below 15c. It also best to upsize the AC, like rdst_1 said they dont work well in colder temperature.
In the west they most use gas to heat the house. Heat pump just wont work at those low temperature.
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How do they vaccum ? With some electric vaccum pump? Also the cooling performance is very good so if the lines were the major culprit then cooling would have been worse too.
I don't remember them using any refrigerant to flush lines.
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nRiTeCh
Oracle
Primary function of an AC is to cool/chill the room. Heater is just an added option but not a full-fledged feature of an AC.
This was my initial though as well and then thought of buying a dedicated heater for warming the room. I also have a dedicated thread opened for it.
Thus ACs might have those humidifier and heater functionalities but its primary goal is to cool. Expensive ACs might have these features working in full potential though but I havent came across one in my vicinity so unsure.
I also would not directly Lloyd as something for a faulty AC as none of the posted situations justifies any fault.
Again, chilling from 45-48c to 20c takes half hour to 45mins (observed in nagpur during summers and also in my pune where last year the temps were beyond sustainable levels)
But once cooled you have to ensure no one fiddles with the remote nor with the door/windows etc.
This was my initial though as well and then thought of buying a dedicated heater for warming the room. I also have a dedicated thread opened for it.
Thus ACs might have those humidifier and heater functionalities but its primary goal is to cool. Expensive ACs might have these features working in full potential though but I havent came across one in my vicinity so unsure.
True! If the outer temps are well under 23c ranges theres hardly any job left for the AC until to set it to its lowest value which is 14 or 16c. Still even if it attains those temps you hardly will hear the compressor working to maintain the temps. Usually in this scenario AC shift to Automatic modes thus savings on power bills/ compressor remains neutral.
I also would not directly Lloyd as something for a faulty AC as none of the posted situations justifies any fault.
Again, chilling from 45-48c to 20c takes half hour to 45mins (observed in nagpur during summers and also in my pune where last year the temps were beyond sustainable levels)
But once cooled you have to ensure no one fiddles with the remote nor with the door/windows etc.
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I advise you to stay away from such ac. The heating mode feels like a gimmick because It barely raises the room temperature. It only raises room temperature by 3-5 degree. It failed to even raise room temperature when the outside temperature was 22 and the compressor was running. A heater is anyday better. It costs less and actually works.
If I don't get a satisfactory response from Lloyd then I will consider going to consumer court or educate people on YouTube not to waste money on this nonsense. Wasted about 20k on this worthless crap.
nRiTeCh
Oracle
I still wonder why you looking for a full-fledged heater in a AC. I have explained it in my earlier post. AC is to be used as a cooling device.
If AC provided all facilities of heater and humidifiers then in first place there would have been no separate dedicated appliances and everyone would have bought AC as an AIO solution having everything stashed in one thing.
Yes with a electric vacuum pump. A refrigerant is the medium so having less of it effects performance and efficiency.
While the heatpumps do not work well at very low temperature. If its not able to heat up even at 22c ambient then that's not normal.
I see my neighbor switch on the Daikin heat pump inverter AC in winters at night the temperature this year it here drop below 17c.
I have used heat pump AC in a hotel and it was maintaining the set temperature and the outside was quite cold.
So either the brand and model is crap or the refrigerant is less or both.
All in one ac just run the circuit in reverse. The hot air you get outside when in cooling mode, that hot air is sent inside and cold air is blown outside when in inside heating mode. Its just a heat pump, the direction can be changed. That exhaust hot air is insufficient to heat a room imho. Better to get a dedicated heating device(blower/oil heater etc), which will be much better.
rdst_1
Juggernaut
What.??? Do you even think or research before saying such things.
These dual units just reverse the functionality of the refrigerant circuit. Under normal use, heat is taken from the room via the refrigerant and dumped outside. In heating mode, it takes heat from outside and dumps it inside, via the refrigerant. No transfer of actual air happens. And this is also why they are not good at lower temperatures. Imagine them having to take heat from air which is already at 5 degrees. For that they would require a very long run of refrigerant pipes so as to actually make any difference, which these units don't have and hence the dismal performance in that mode.
No one is expecting a heater from a ac. I am writing this for the 2nd time that the ac is supposed to maintain a comfortable room temperature within its operating limits. My ac says that it can maintain comfortable room temperature when outside is at minus 10 degree. So I expected it to do that at 8-10 degree outside which is not expecting it to be a heater or anything unrealistic but it fails to do so. Since it cools effectively so the amperes, gas and other variables must be all right. It is either faulty or else it is a case of false marketing.
People don't buy ac in place of a heater because firstly, ac is very expensive in comparison to a heater.
2ndly, people assume that ac cannot work at very cold temperatures. It is brands like llyod with their false marketing claims makes a customer falls for their fraud.
I bought it because it said it would work at minus 10 so I thought it should be fine at plus 8-10. A whopping 20 degree difference but no, I was wrong.
At my place, no ac fitting technician uses a vaccum pump. My old 1.5 ton lg ac was bone chilling and it was installed just like that. It still cools effectively but may have been better in case if the lines are vaccum pumped like you said.
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