london attacked !!!

SuperNova said:
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If you have seen BBC then you must have sen a survey that given a choice people certainly don't want to go with pakistan, more want to go with India but overwhelming want independence.
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Kashmiris want independence to do what? They want freedom from world largest,free, secular democracy!! to create what a Taliban like state on what some said "heaven on this planet"

The question is WHY

whats different about them compared to other states in India? all of them have different languages,culture traditions etc how come my home state of karnataka doesn't want Independence?

The money we are pouring there is enourmous subsidsing essesntioal commodities. we have heard of starvation in orissa,Andhra pradesh, karnataka

have we heard of starvation in Kashmir? wonder why? because Indian govt gives away essential commodities almost free to the same guys who want independence from US.
 
you are right...
but point is that atleast the surveys show that freedom is what they want. You are again absolutely right. Its probably the most pampered state in India. But then why is that they still want independence? maybe they think that they can urvive on tourism. Its hard to say..
 
Tourism, if it becomes independent there goes its tourism.
Which tourist will risk going to independend kashmir? Its the amount of security, money the Indian govt is pouring in Kashmir is what making it livable.
They are in india and thats why they can dare to even speak of independence. Speak same across border and he will be shot dead.
 
SuperNova said:
you are right...
but point is that atleast the surveys show that freedom is what they want. You are again absolutely right. Its probably the most pampered state in India. But then why is that they still want independence? maybe they think that they can urvive on tourism. Its hard to say..
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are you sure the answer for that is purely or even partly economic? do you think people who want "independence" / terrorists ever bothered about viability of a state like most civilized people do?

My home state can be a very viable state. We got good economy based on IT, we got access to sea [mangalore port], we have Airports, I'm sure we can arrange a Militray,judiciary and an exectuive to manage a "independent" karnataka

we also can arrange a legislature in one of the best "Architecture wise" state assembly.

BUT

I DONT AND ALL KANNADIGAS DONT WANT INDEPENDENCE FROM INDIA? WONDER WHY?

guru posted 5.58 minutes later:
funkymonkey said:
Tourism, if it becomes independent there goes its tourism.
Which tourist will risk going to independend kashmir? Its the amount of security, money the Indian govt is pouring in Kashmir is what making it livable.
They are in india and thats why they can dare to even speak of independence. Speak same across border and he will be shot dead.
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your are right.

has anybody heard of pakisthan controlled kashmir being a tourist place or a terrorist place? :O
 
your guess is as good as mine then :ohyeah:

seriously, there is a prob with kashmir thats not there in other states. With kashmir you have always treated them with priviliges. Pakistan has done its bit.. what its done,,is debatable as i don't really know for sure whats happening in POK. But the fact that you gave them the priviliges before makes them believe ; rightly or wrongly; that they can continue better on their own.

btw if they do get independence and if that happens then it has to be with consent of india and pakistan then why will there be a security prob there?

SuperNova posted 1.25 minutes later:
They are in india and thats why they can dare to even speak of independence. Speak same across border and he will be shot dead.
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100% right ;) thats the advantage and privilige of living in a democracy.. not so in Iraq under saddam. this is freedom everyone wants and strives for.
 
SuperNova said:
SuperNova posted 1.25 minutes later:

100% right ;) thats the advantage and privilige of living in a democracy.. not so in Iraq under saddam. this is freedom everyone wants and strives for.
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very right, the day we take our freedoms for granted, we are doomed.

btw i know why kashmiri's want "independence"? :@
 
at the end of all this, the blame goes back to Nehru.... No offence. I consider him one of the great statesmen, not just a leader or a politician.

But he was also human and made a few mistakes. This was one of the biggest blunders made by him and has become a curse to the very land for which he toiled.

And somehwere among the mass of posts, someone spoke abt Pakistan and it's nukes. I hate Gen Musharraf. But in a way we should be thankful that he is in charge of Pak. He is being controlled by the US and therefore cannot do much.

But if he was not there, there is a very hugh probability of some Islamic Radicals coming to power and there is NO way of telling what they will do. They are very unpredictable and once they are drunk with power(of nukes.... nothing less), they may as well decide that they have had enough of India and drop a nuke in some populated place in India.

Of course, once they do that, the whole of the Indian subcontinent will be wiped out as India will retaliate and then the Pakis will again drop another and this will totally destroy the subcontinent.

But this is a worst case scenario. something like Armageddon. Let us hope it never happens......
 
I don't know Supernova why you're being such a jimmy boy USA.
True, USA is not as sinister as most people believe but still what they did in Iraq was a little bit fishy.
Different people have got different theories. I don't think anybody bought the WMD theory I don't think that they are even selling it now.
According to me the equation is something like this.
you've got oil, you've got an old wound, you've got a war on terrorism going on and this one fits the bill. Just take a look at it the countries that are supposed to harbour ill will againt US:
Saudi Arabia : Got whole lotta oil, not exactly a democracy, but they're kinda are friends(Osama not withstanding.)
Pakistan : No oil, kinda our friends right now, will deal with them later.
Korea : Crazy ass mofos, got ICBMs, Got big grudges and nothing else; will deal with them later.
Syria : Well they are a noisy lot but let's just put them on hold for a while, they aren't doing too much.
Lybia : The dude whom we tried to kill is now a good boy; let's leave him alone.
Iraq : Well looky looky what do we have here. A bad crazy motherfella with lotso oil and not particularly famous either. Lets get him for daddy and yeah ummm...... the evil terrorism thing too. Lets slap this b**ch around.
And I think our mistake early on as a nation was to align ourselves with USSR which the US didn't like and justifiably so. I don't propose that we should become a moll of the US but the general chest thumping that we do as the largest secular democracy isn't reflected in our track record. We were friendly with the very undemocratic soviets, now we're that with Iran and Mynanmar.

So my synopsis is that in geopolitical diplomacy there are no permamnent friends or even enemies but only permanent self-interests.
And as for Kashmir there can't be any solution for a long time only protracted talks.It has just got too complicated a past and present for there to be a solution that all parties would agree upon.
And since I'm being such a wiseguy why don't I say something about Jihad.com
Well as I see it Christianity and Islam are in conflict because of there proselytizing nature. And I think Islamists have got greater zeal but lesser firepower to make it happen for them. So in turn they resort to guerilla like terrorism. This of course doesn't apply to every one in the community.
 
Please tone down your language..... I don't like to see you talk to SN that way.

And abt India aligning with the USSR. It was natural. Since the British had just left, there was no way we were going to be aligned with them. so, obviously we did not align with the US or Capitalist bloc.

We started the Non-Aligned Movement. We pretty much followed that principle. We may have been somewhat closer to the USSR than the US but we were friendly with both countries. We got aid from both countries. MAybe more from the USSR.

The problem came when Indira Gandhi came to power. She made this stupid and preposterous rule abt all foreign companies having to reinvest their money in India. They could not take any of the moeny earned in India ourt of India. For example:- If Coca Cola made 1 Crore of profit, they could not take it out of India to the US. They had to reinvest it in India.

This may seem like a good thing but all the American companies were very put off by this and slowly started leaving India. This angered the US leaders also as american companies were forced to leave India in a hurry. Many companies could not even salvage what they had originally invested in India, in the process losing lots of money.

And at this time, Indira became openly Anti-US(Not in the way how Iran or North Korea is Anti-US but still... very firmly against the US). She became much closer to the USSR.

That was when the US stopped liking India and the relations started going downhill....
 
Fakepunk said:
I don't know Supernova why you're being such a jimmy boy USA.
True, USA is not as sinister as most people believe but still what they did in
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:ohyeah: jimmy boy USA ... lmao
you know the first thing you do is respect others views. No one thinks alike.. all i can say is its better to look at it from the other viewpoint also. ZI can as well say your understanding of things is myopic..but apart from creating flames, neither you nor me gonna change thier views, so best avoid making such remarks.

Now about what you said, I just don't buy this theory about Bush attacking Iraq for his dad and oil. No country puts at risk its men and women for petty issues and don't take the American people to be idiots that they would elect Bush if this war was his own and had no basis. The fact was that America had never seen terrorism on its shores and when it happened, they took the steps that it should not happen again.
I am not saying whatever they are doing is right. All i am saying is that the end result in Iraq is best for the world as a whole. The fact is that US is the most powerful country in the world and right now. You and me can shout about it helping Pakistan but for them taliban is bigger threat than pakistan. And btw we should be thankful to them in a way. This sudden sea change in musharaff would never have taken place without US pressure. Ofcourse he certainly hasn't stopped supporting terror but atleast he doing something..(however little that may be but atleast the terrorists are not romain around freely asking for donations now all over Pakistan.. )
For India, if Kashmir has to be solved and terror has to end, the best man we can get is musharaff. He has the power to impose the hard decision and he is not a fundamentalist like many others that may come in power had he not been here. He may be a devil, but he is a devil you can talk to.. if there is such a thing..
 
It's a forum, so need to see it as a flame or in having frail sensibilities.

I don't wan't to make petty fight out of discussion but did you actually see my list of possible reasons why US did what it did. Bush's approval rating are at an all time low and so is the belief of Americans on the validity of the Iraq war or its consequences. If you seriously think that Iraq is not in a quagmire or won't be in the time to come, then you're only being blindsided by your own biases.
And what you don't realise is that you just can't impose/export democracy that too in a Islamist state where religion was quashed for far too long, Germany was a different time and deal altogether.

And you forget all about the American hubris and there previous campaigns done out of insecurity or pettiness(contra anyone?). I mean the sheer hypocrisy of it is unsettling. They support the Sauds, they support Musharraff and many dictators before them, who aren't exactly the torch bearers of democarcy.
I may be completely wrong on this(I sure hope so) but I'm more skeptical of Musharraf than of the other hardliners in Pakistan. Atleast with the hardliners you know what you're going to get, not so with Mia Musharraff.
Nikhil I was going to patronize you and be small, but I suggest you brush up your history a bit more(no harm in it you'll only get smarter).
 
It's a forum, so need to see it as a flame or in having frail sensibilities.
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i see that and thats why i told you what i did...

Bush's approval rating are at an all time low and so is the belief of Americans on the validity of the Iraq war or its consequences.
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if the ratings were so good then they predicted a bush loss and rout of bush in exit polls. The best test were elections and bush won fair and square and took the popular vote too.
If you seriously think that Iraq is not in a quagmire or won't be in the time to come, then you're only being blindsided by your own biases.
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I seriously think what i think. I can say you are completely biased yourself. there is never a doubt that the situation in Iraq is going to be challenging. But just that its going to be challenging doesn't mean you don't do anything about it.

And what you don't realise is that you just can't impose/export democracy that too in a Islamist state where religion was quashed for far too long, Germany was a different time and deal altogether.
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you can't export democracy unless people not willing. But there is no indication of that. People came out in force in the elections held in Iraq. And you yourself said that this is not germany. Conventional wisdom or what was true in other cases may not hold true in Iraq's case. Ofcourse best would have been to support an internal movement in Iraq to overthrow saddam but that i think would have taken lot of time and with the kind of man saddam was it would have been nextto impossible to do that. (though it would have been better i agree)

And you forget all about the American hubris and there previous campaigns done out of insecurity or pettiness(contra anyone?). I mean the sheer hypocrisy of it is unsettling. They support the Sauds, they support Musharraff and many dictators before them, who aren't exactly the torch bearers of democarcy.
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mate.. you bestter start reading threads before posting.... America is doing whats good for them.. not for others... Who said whatever they do is good. I just said that what they doing or did in Iraq was though in their own interest, but good for the world as it got rid of saddam...(and this is my personal opinion)
No on said here that America is doing everyting right... as i mentioned before.. AMerica does things based on whats good for them

Nikhil I was going to patronize you and be small, but I suggest you brush up your history a bit more(no harm in it you'll only get smarter).
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And dude... stop throwing your preachings... If you think others don't know keep it to yourself and feel smarter..
 
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/13bomb.htm

3 terrorists were of Pak origin.....

Yeah right!! like that is something new......

This is what you get for mollycoddling the world's biggest terrorist state.....

Go ahead give them more F-16s, Hawkeye-2000s, money, everything.....

SN --- You said that US is looking only at it's needs. That is why it is protecting Pak. But now, many of these terrorists are coming out of Pak.

How is protecting Pakistan helping the US now??
 
ask them... i am not representative of the US government..

But i can say this.. US main aim is Taliban first then others.. and to defeat taliban they gotta side with pakis. BTw an important distinction.. US is NOT supporting pakistan but the dictator of Pakistan which is mushi... And you can bet that mushi can't do anything against US. Infact he will lead a crack down against anti americans or such feelings.
 
But the Taliban is finished(at least until the US leaves Afghanistan and Pak again sends back Mullah Omar into Afghanistan :bleh: ), and now, the US will never find Osama.... he is an expert at hiding.....
 
hmm looks interesting.. but thats one point.. there are counter blogs to that all over. Point is everyone has his own viewpoint.

Anyway will discuss this later.. am too busy right now.. Maybe after v2 ;)
 
No probs.... take your time.... I also have a damn exam tomorrow.... my hated subject Computer Concepts and C programming..... :bleh:

I seriously hate that subject...... No wonder I am on course to be a mech eng
 
Accusing Pakistan of hiding Mullah Omar wudnt be fair..........theres no sniff/proof of that theory existing but yes Mullah Omar and Osama are for sure experts at hiding......
 
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