Looking for a home UPS that is smart

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This is how most people have their setups in the country. Battery in a trolley in some well ventilated room. Where is the dust problem ?

People who make battery boxes usually have them in bigger rooms or its outside in cold climate and the box acts as insulation to keep temperature constant.

The problem with fans is what if it fails. You need redundancy. So think of two fans. One next to the other. Second is a backup that switches on in case the first fails. Where is the control logic to do this. How will you know if the fan fails and if fans is the only way to ventilate then its a risk.

Simpler is no fans but i've yet to be convinced that this will work. I'm not sure how the air changes work in such a situation. Vent area gives some idea how much air can come in and exit but nothing about the rate at which the flow occurs.

In my case the stair crawl space area is on the ground floor, I did think of putting the batteries in the extreme corner of that crawl space under the stairs but doing so will make it difficult to do maintenance on batteries, In that crawl space try breathing during the maintenance with battery gases, dust and that area is more dustier then other areas, being the stair case peoples shoes carry the dust, dust in the mat, when ever one opens the door near the stair case more dust enters and the water spill above the batteries(it happens during refill) and petroleum jelly makes it a dust magnet.

As far as the fans failing, yes it can happen and redundancy is to be factored in. Since I will be using 5 watt fans, not decided on whether to go for both fans working in Ac voltage or one Ac and other working in Dc voltage. Such that the Dc fan switches off when the main power fails. One fan will be working in push configuration sucking air through the filter and blowing inside the box and the other fan in the window area which acts as a pull and also sucking the general air around inverter area, taking the heat away.

This will simply once I install solar, where the Dc fan will working only when solar is charging.

I also have seen some DIY circuits for fan failure and also ready made ones, the cost of the ready made ones like Rs2.2k.
datasheet

But at 10w for both the fans power consumption running 24/7, thats 60 bucks a month in power bill. My 24/7 router and security cameras consume more.
If I use that ready made solution I will have to buy fans based on that datasheet.

There is also this h2 gas detector you will still need use a seperate for h2 (mp135 sensor), I wouldn't trust the sensor life for 24/7. But it can act as a alarm or connect fans to it.

 

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In my case the stair crawl space area is on the ground floor, I did think of putting the batteries in the extreme corner of that crawl space under the stairs but doing so will make it difficult to do maintenance on batteries, In that crawl space try breathing during the maintenance with battery gases, dust and that area is more dustier then other areas, being the stair case peoples shoes carry the dust, dust in the mat, when ever one opens the door near the stair case more dust enters and the water spill above the batteries(it happens during refill) and petroleum jelly makes it a dust magnet.

It seems like your staircase area isn't enclosed ? It's open ?

Mine has a thin plywood sheet that covers it and there is even a door. The door is usually closed and locked. There is a door next to it that is usually kept open as it leads to the top floor. Dust comes in this way. But i think the area under the stairs gets less.

 

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My stair case is internal so it's closed but right next to that window there is a also the entrance door to the stairs which leads to the top floor. The area underneath the stair doesn't have any cover, if thats what you ask. I could have covered it with wood but like I said battery maintenance will be cumbersome and will need lights directly above the battery, to see inside thevent/fill hole.

Would also need to use longer battery wire , wires for balancer, monitor will all have to be extended, and will have to put a wire duct , I could I suppose put all of the displays there but it will be out of bare sight and harder to read. Also If I have to put any wireless power reporting devices the signal will be hard to reach.

With the current setup the battery box is right below the inverter and anyone passing the stairs can read the displays.

 

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The area underneath the stair doesn't have any cover, if thats what you ask. I could have covered it with wood but like I said battery maintenance will be cumbersome and will need lights directly above the battery, to see inside thevent/fill hole.

That's what i mean so the area under your staircase isn't enclosed. That is why you need a box. There is a light in the small area under mine. The door is situated at the highest point of the triangle. It is a little cumbersome to get in so the batteries are going to be situated just behind the door which open outwards.

Would also need to use longer battery wire , wires for balancer, monitor will all have to be extended, and will have to put a wire duct , I could I suppose put all of the displays there but it will be out of bare sight and harder to read. Also If I have to put any wireless power reporting devices the signal will be hard to reach.

With the current setup the battery box is right below the inverter and anyone passing the stairs can read the displays.

This is the other thing i'm thinking about. In my case everything will be inside the stair case room. Not visible except for maintenance or the odd time i go in there. I will never know if a fan gives up so wanted to do it without one. One advantage with an open area is temperatures could be cooler. Averages right now under the staircase are high twenties to low thirties.

That is why i wanted a remote monitoring facility. It seems with the flinn i will have to dedicate a laptop or some sort of mini-pc that will be permanently connected and then remote desktop to it. The flin display on the unit isn't going to be much use for me. All of this is because the inverter must be situated close to the batteries. Otherwise require longer runs of pretty thick gauge wire. There are cooling fans on the flin so i don't know how noisy it gets. Inside the stair case room it won't bother any one. Being locked up inside means nobody tampers with it and every thing is safe.

 

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So you want to put the inverter and lock the door, well what about heat build up, those flins will be blowing some hot air, mainly during power failure and running via solar. I am going to use the second fan to suck the hot air of inverter and gas outside of the house.

If you go the fan method, all you have to do is put a fan in vent hole to the outside, where it sucks both the h2 and warm air out. Yes the warm air (naturally rises up) will still make it's way out but active fan solution is still better.

 

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So you want to put the inverter and lock the door, well what about heat build up, those flins will be blowing some hot air, mainly during power failure and running via solar. I am going to use the second fan to suck the hot air of inverter and gas outside of the house.

If you go the fan method, all you have to do is put a fan in vent hole to the outside, where it sucks both the h2 and warm air out. Yes the warm air (naturally rises up) will still make it's way out but active fan solution is still better.

The advantage of the fan i feel will be more if it can keep the ambient temperature down. Ideally few degrees around 25.

But can this be done with just a ventilation fan in the pipe or will it need another fan that blows on the inverter and battery ?

How hot it gets will have to see. An inline fan will reduce the size of the vents as it has a faster flow rate.

 

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Blowing directly on inverter battery means more dust on them, unless you use a filter. Not sure how effective inline fans are, there are good ones but are expensive. The inverter internal temperature can reach close to 50C, so the warm air will be about equal to desktop PC with a graphics card during gaming, enclosed space means heat build up.

 

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Luminous has an 'i' variant of the Zelio now. I cannot understand why this variant even exists. From what i can tell it has the same features as the wifi model except, it does not work with wifi but instead uses bluetooth. This limits the range and seems like a regressive step.

Was it so difficult to get the wifi model working that they opted after to release a bluetooth version instead

 

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This is how I was doing it for 9 years, I first visually determine which bottles have nil impurities in the shop,(when shell pumps used to sell them they where really good, they no longer sell it). I then use a TDS meter to determine the quality of water before pouring them into the battery. The distill water bottles that I get from a local HP petrol pump as some floating particles, which I filter it out. The TDS however is nearly zero.

Picked up a litre bottle from a BP station to check out. Looked clear when i got it then later when i held it up to the light i can see small things in it.

So what to filter it with ?

Portable Water Filter (red, 9.5): Amazon.in: Home & Kitchen

Portable Water Filter (red, 9.5): Amazon.in: Home & Kitchen

www.amazon.in

Would that work ?

 

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Not sure about that, This paper should work.

Pmw - Qualitative Filter Paper -100 circles - Schools Labs Industries - Good Quality: Amazon.in: Industrial & Scientific

Pmw - Qualitative Filter Paper -100 circles - Schools Labs Industries - Good Quality: Amazon.in: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.in

or https://www.amazon.in/dp/B075R7TDLD...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

But its better to buy exide distillo, It's now available everywhere.

 

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or https://www.amazon.in/dp/B075R7TDLD...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

But its better to buy exide distillo, It's now available everywhere.

Second filter looks good, at least they mention the filter pore size in microns



Testing the TDS of the 1lt bottle it says 23 (!) kinda high for distilled. Filtering isn't going to bring it down much. Whether the 5lt can is the same is an open question.

Clear bottle with expiry date mentioned.

Tested the TDS of a bottle of Aquafina. The value came out at 3

This is what i was expecting from the distilled water not Aquafina.

So if somebody asks why not use Aquafina, its better than distilled water right ?



Tried another Aquafina bottle and it came out with a TDS of 6. So there is some variation but at Rs.20 per litre it still beat the petrol station water i got for Rs.30

 

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23 TDS is very high for distilled water. Regarding using Aquafina, the TDS could vary from place to place depending on the water used during packaging.

A 5 liter exide distillo costs cheaper, then those filter papers and any exide care dealer should have them.

 

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23 TDS is very high for distilled water. Regarding using Aquafina, the TDS could vary from place to place depending on the water used during packaging.

A 5 liter exide distillo costs cheaper, then those filter papers and any exide care dealer should have them.

Yeah it is, i'll try another measurement later and see if it changes. But this company is rubbish. From a BP petrol station. You did say these places are no good these days

What is the highest TDS you would consider acceptable and safe to use in a battery ?

Is a TDS measurement sufficient along with visual inspection for no suspended matter.

Goal here seems to be 0 TDS, what if it was say less than 5.

Aquafina goes through a 5 stage filtration process, i'd imagine they have quality standards that could be verified with a TDS meter if that is all that is necessary to gauge water suitability for lead acid batteries.

I think the TDS meter is ok. Water out the tap comes in at 140ppm, from the aquaguard similar.

This distilled water at 23, aquafina at 3. So there is a range of values there for reference.

 

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Since I got my TDS meter back in 2013, I have not put anything other then 0 TDS water in battery. The distilled water suppliers to each bunk varies, the one I bought last time was a laboratory with the word mysore mentioned in the laboratory name and was made in Rajajinagar, some did have suspended particles but the TDS reading was still zero after filtering them with those paper pads.

 

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Assume there's no existing RO system, and i was talking about real distillation, not deionising. Like boil, evap and condense.

How can a person do that with adequate output quantity and reasonable cost.

We have to boil water so you need to use electricity power or gas to do that. You can buy those distill water aparatus for like 1.5k or so. If you want to eliminate the cost of gas or electricity, you can use a mini or portable solar water heater, which is also used by solar water heater shops as a demo unit and then connect a ready made distill water apparatus or do one yourself by using copper tube and vessels. Again RO unit serves as dual purpose, consumes only 25watt max.
below is those mini solar heaters, not sure of the cost but have heard it costs like 3k to 5k or so.

How about going in the opposite direction. Instead of boiling, try freezing. Make ice in the freezer. Then defrost it in some container and you have pure water.

Now, the trick is it has to be clear ice not normal ice. Ice you can see through, ice as clear as glass. My initial tests are promising. Took a clear ice cube and let it melt in a glass. Aquaguard water TDS level came down from 140 to 1. Should have been zero but i suppose some contamination occurred. I am still amazed at the result. Better than Pepsi's 5 stage RO process



Slab is about 2 inches thick and will make about 2 litres. Simple way to get de-mineralised water.

The theory is the dissolved salts and small particles are pushed down into the water at the bottom. If the minerals were trapped in the ice you'd see the ice as imperfect. This is because the water would crystallize in odd shapes and would appear as white or just opaque when frozen together. The crystal structures start to build around the mineral and when they meet they can't form perfectly, leaving visible imperfections. However, pure ice frozen perfectly is crystal clear.

It's a slow process, but for individual use not a problem. Would take 48h in the freezer to get enough clear ice to make 3 to 4 litres of pure water. Depends on the size of cooler and how big your freezer is.

 

[vaalkai]

I

How about going in the opposite direction. Instead of boiling, try freezing. Make ice in the freezer. Then defrost it in some container and you have pure water.

Now, the trick is it has to be clear ice not normal ice. Ice you can see through, ice as clear as glass. My initial tests are promising. Took a clear ice cube and let it melt in a glass. Aquaguard water TDS level came down from 140 to 1. Should have been zero but i suppose some contamination occurred. I am still amazed at the result. Better than Pepsi's 5 stage RO process

View attachment 81360View attachment 81362View attachment 81361

Slab is about 2 inches thick and will make about 2 litres. Simple way to get de-mineralised water.

The theory is the dissolved salts and small particles are pushed down into the water at the bottom. If the minerals were trapped in the ice you'd see the ice as imperfect. This is because the water would crystallize in odd shapes and would appear as white or just opaque when frozen together. The crystal structures start to build around the mineral and when they meet they can't form perfectly, leaving visible imperfections. However, pure ice frozen perfectly is crystal clear.

It's a slow process, but for individual use not a problem. Would take 48h in the freezer to get enough clear ice to make 3 to 4 litres of pure water. Depends on the size of cooler and how big your freezer is.

I am not sure I understand. If you simply freeze it, where will the impurities go? It would still remain in the water, when you melt it back?

 

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If the water has impurities if you freeze them, it will not drop the tds when you melt all of them.

 

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If the water has impurities if you freeze them, it will not drop the tds when you melt all of them.

Not melting all of it. Only the clear ice portion. The rest is discarded. Unless the ice is clear it won't work.

I don't let the whole lot freeze. Somewhere between 24-48h i remove it so less than half has not completely frozen

I confirmed this by following up with a total hardness test and it comes up as under 5 PPM. The Aquasol kit i have isn't very precise at low levels of hardness.

However the aquafina with a higher TDS showed no hardness.

Post automatically merged: Aug 1, 2019

I am not sure I understand. If you simply freeze it, where will the impurities go? It would still remain in the water, when you melt it back?

You don't freeze all of it. Not like this

Instead it should be like this. Notice the top part, it has water in it. That's where the impurities are.

You cut off that part and then it looks like this.

That's the slab i posted above. Now i took a small sample and melted it. TDS was 1

It remains to be seen whether the whole clear ice slab melted will be the same but i expect TDS to be very low.

Bear in mind you cannot simply do this in any container. It needs to be insulated on the sides and a cooler with the top open is easiest way to achieve it. Read the link in my previous post.

 

[vaalkai]

Got it guys! i didn't realize you cut off some parts..

 

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Got it guys! i didn't realize you cut off some parts..

Just the bottom, and ice to be made by directional freezing otherwise you won't get clear ice at all.

I got the cooler to make clear ice for drinks then decided to test the water.

Lots of dual purpose use here