Need advice : a microwave oven and a RO water purifier

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spolygon said:
This is not correct. Pureit is much more than a simple filtration apparatus. It has in addition to the filtration step, a carbon filter which removes all soluble organic impurities such as pesticides, a germkill active which kills all germs and finally a last polishing filter which removes any residual impurities and leaves the water tasting great.
If you look at the permionics product, the eact same steps are followed in that product as well. The quality of output water is EXACTLY the same in the two cases. The difference is that the membrane filter in Permionics lasts a lot longer ( and hence the device at RS 6000+ is a lot more expensive).

As far as recurring costs are concerned let me assure you there is NO activated carbon technology in the world that can be used infinitely. The activated carbon has 'active' sites that capture impurities. It is possible to regenerate some of them through backflushing etc. but it IMPOSSIBLE to regenerate activated carbon completely. This is the reason the eureka forbes purifiers need the carbon filter to be repalced periodically. So for a fair comparison, please include the cost of replacing the carbon filter in the permionics device. If you have not done so in three years, I suspect that either
a) Your supply water is great,
b) You have been not removing soluble organic impurities at all!
Again lets do the math. A pureit comes with one germ kill filter.In a year with three replacements, that RS. 2700. Even after another three years, it is still cheaper than the permionics unit. And as I have stated, at that point the permionics unit would need a carbon change too. Also if you folllow through with the math the cost per litre of cleaned water comes out to be 20paise per litre (if you include only the cost of the germkill battery), or 30 paise per litre if you include the cost of the unit too over the life of the device.
Please look at
About Pureit | Affordable Price
to get a good idea as to where pureit stacks up in terms of VFM to other options.
I believe that 1800 rupees to begin with and then 300 rupees every three months is affordable to the aam aadmi and to a lot of people (compared to 6000+ rupees up front AND recurring costs in AMCs, consumables etc)

Also for those who are not aware of 'hidden' costs, the webiste mentions the replaceable battery clearly and if you contact the sales representative who will visit your home for a demo, this is explained very explicitly.
Lastly as medpal himself says it is not a battery in the conventional sense. It is a cartridge that contains the germ killing active and there is no electricity involved.
The reason I felt it was necessary to post this is that medpal is a learned and respected individual on these forums and his words carry much weight. That fact that this comes from him would be enogh for a lot of people to make up their minds.
In this case though, I felt he did not have the correct picture and people would get the wrong idea.

I realize that my views could be considered biased. Hence, i would suggest people to do their own research. Speak to people who are using Pureit and other devices. Get their feedback. If possible try and experience these products. In the case of Pureit you could even call the Pureit guy to your house, take a demo and convince yourself.

I think that all of these devices work quite well. Any device is better than no device at all. So please make an informed choice.

Medpal, I respect you as I have seen many informative posts from you on these forums. I hope you will not take this the wrong way. My intention is not to offend but inform.
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first foremost spolygon congratulations on such an informative post :clap:

this is a forum where people meet and exchange ideas and thus increase knowledge.

so there is no point in taking your post in wrong way.

Now keeping the discussion contd.

The activated carbon filter is the prerequisite of the and filter be it UV / RO / Ultra filteration. It is responsible for major smell / dirt / particle and colour removal.

Replacing it is absolute necessary in case of any filteration or purification unit be it RO / UV / UF.

Replacing activated carbon filter is not costly at all. Permionics supplies 3 sets of activated carbon filter with the unit which is to be replaced at every six months there after we can replace it ourselves.

Same way the Eureka Forbes systems also have the same activated filter as first step.(OT: Perhaps some people may have encountered Eureka Forbes sales person saying that if you pour in A carbonated cold drink in and you will get clear water, thats because of this activated carbon)

the cost of activated carbon filter is not much (iirc less than 50 bucks)

Now the point comes why HUL system requires frequent replacement of their main filteration system, may be there is no flush or cleaning mechanism. Or some other reason which i am not aware of.

while permionics model i use has a flush system which you have to use after you collect your water for drinking purpose by opening a flush valve which changes the flow of the water so that membrane is de-clogged.

The engineer with whom i had detailed discussion told me that in case of soft water of pretty good quality the membrane lasts upto 15 years without any problems. Even if we assume he is exaggerating we can safely take half the time period to about 7/8 years.

the other point was these ultra filteration membranes are fail safe in a way they allow only filtered water to pass through i the membrane is clogged then no water will pass through and you have to change the membrane. (This may also be the case with HUl Pureit)

so flushing of the membrane and also a long lasting membrane are the major benefits in my sense.

Same way as someone pointed out BARC has patented a new but on the same principle a membrane which is utilised in a few new products.
I am not critising HUL product but the way i am looking at it is the same way our respected member "blr_p" is looking at Air COnditioners.

My aim is to get the best solution for the person concerned considering the situation he / she is in.

so putting the cost calculation again.

Permionics:
6.1k (upfront) + 150 a year to replace activated carbon so total cost at end of 7 years = 7150/-

HUL:
1.8k (upfront) + 1200 a year to replace filter so total cost at end of 7 years = 10200/-

That was the reason why i pointed for Permionics.
Here we assume consumables or durables cost are same for both the units.
I am still open for more data to enlighten me.
 
medpal said:
first foremost spolygon congratulations on such an informative post :clap:

this is a forum where people meet and exchange ideas and thus increase knowledge.

so there is no point in taking your post in wrong way.

Now keeping the discussion contd.

The activated carbon filter is the prerequisite of the and filter be it UV / RO / Ultra filteration. It is responsible for major smell / dirt / particle and colour removal.

Replacing it is absolute necessary in case of any filteration or purification unit be it RO / UV / UF.

Replacing activated carbon filter is not costly at all. Permionics supplies 3 sets of activated carbon filter with the unit which is to be replaced at every six months there after we can replace it ourselves.

Same way the Eureka Forbes systems also have the same activated filter as first step.(OT: Perhaps some people may have encountered Eureka Forbes sales person saying that if you pour in A carbonated cold drink in and you will get clear water, thats because of this activated carbon)

the cost of activated carbon filter is not much (iirc less than 50 bucks)

Now the point comes why HUL system requires frequent replacement of their main filteration system, may be there is no flush or cleaning mechanism. Or some other reason which i am not aware of.

while permionics model i use has a flush system which you have to use after you collect your water for drinking purpose by opening a flush valve which changes the flow of the water so that membrane is de-clogged.

The engineer with whom i had detailed discussion told me that in case of soft water of pretty good quality the membrane lasts upto 15 years without any problems. Even if we assume he is exaggerating we can safely take half the time period to about 7/8 years.

the other point was these ultra filteration membranes are fail safe in a way they allow only filtered water to pass through i the membrane is clogged then no water will pass through and you have to change the membrane. (This may also be the case with HUl Pureit)

so flushing of the membrane and also a long lasting membrane are the major benefits in my sense.

Same way as someone pointed out BARC has patented a new but on the same principle a membrane which is utilised in a few new products.
I am not critising HUL product but the way i am looking at it is the same way our respected member "blr_p" is looking at Air COnditioners.

My aim is to get the best solution for the person concerned considering the situation he / she is in.

so putting the cost calculation again.

Permionics:
6.1k (upfront) + 150 a year to replace activated carbon so total cost at end of 7 years = 7150/-

HUL:
1.8k (upfront) + 1200 a year to replace filter so total cost at end of 7 years = 10200/-

That was the reason why i pointed for Permionics.
Here we assume consumables or durables cost are same for both the units.
I am still open for more data to enlighten me.
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ps edit : I went to HUL site after this post and read this

You can purchase a Germkill Battery Kit for just Rs. 300b . To place an order, please Contact Us . We will deliver the battery at your doorstep and even install it for you – for a nominal charge!

Alternatively, you can visit our Safe Water Zone closest to your home and purchase the Germkill Battery Kit. Before you install the battery yourself, please read the battery replacement instructions.

You can even calculate in advance the estimated replacement date for your Germkill Battery Kit. Please use the Pureit Battery Life Calculator to see when you can place an order in advance for the Germkill Battery Kit.

a At a water temperature of 25° Celsius, in moderate humidity conditions
b Nominal delivery charges extra
Click to expand...

so if a person is not savvy and asks for installation there is recurring installation cost too.

i hope to see a demo in near future. barring recurring costs this HUL system looks promising.
 
@Medpal: Permionics that you are referring is RO or UF. If its UF is that a spiral filter?. cos spiral filter requires cleaning by reverse flow of water.
What i have mentioned here is a candle type Polysulphone membrane and you can clean it by hand. This unit has no water loss as in the flushing system.
The distributor told me this unit can be converted to RO by just adding 2.5 K extra for filter and motor pump. also there are lots of companies producing RO filters and GE is the best. The max life is dependent on salt level. we can expect 5 years of service life.
Poly sulphone candle cost 700 Rs per unit and if its properly cleaned it will last for 5 years. This unit doesnot require power to operate
When i searched for water purifier i striked out kent due to poor service and electronic component in their purifier fails in no time as i heard from some users.
 
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vijay the prmionics i use is based on Ultra filteration technique.

It uses reverse flow technique to flush out and cleaning.

It does not use any electricity.

The wastage of water is much less.
 
So permionics is using spiral filter membrane. The life of the filter depends on the time and interval of flushing. Are you flushing everyday and how much does that cost?
 
vijaycool said:
So permionics is using spiral filter membrane. The life of the filter depends on the time and interval of flushing. Are you flushing everyday and how much does that cost?
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they advise flushing daily for two minutes before starting filtering the water.

flushing does not cost anything except opening a drain valve and let water pass through for 2 minutes.

the sentimental cost involved is 2 minutes of water.
 
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Good choice indeed. :)

IFB makes some classe products. Period. Washing m/cs and ovens to name a few. Never tried out dish washers and cloth driers though.

The 30L version may be priced @ 10k+. Last enquired, the dealer quoted 10,900 odd yest. :ashamed: Was out of comp yest so could not post.

PS: Which w/c did u finally opt for???
 
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