nRiTeCh
Level N
That's what i mentioned Smart ups. Investing a bomb amount in smart ups makes no sense as pretty much within 20k you get inverter setup and complete peace of mind.
PC Peripherals Need UPS with Future proofing
- Thread starter Mr.J
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- electricity power supply ups
blr_p
Level N
See comment #9
My plan was to go with a sukam 1600VA with bluetooth but apparently that model is out of stock since last year. Latest model is out of stock
Which leaves the cruze, a few anecdotes i've read say its good enough
Only question i have to figure out is whether 2x180Ah tubulars are safe in a staircase room. Otherwise i might be forced to look at gel batteries which i would prefer to avoid
Not clear to me whether the Bosch C7 does desulfation and its really for car batteries that don't get much chance to charge. The pulse charging helps with equalisation
Some comments i've read suggest Sukam is going out of business but i've not seen evidence of this. Luminous is benefiting from APC's support network
If you run the pumps sequentially you just might get away with a smaller model. From what i can tell the luminous can handle a surge of twice their rating. So your pump starting current along with any load in total should not exceed 16A (that will trip the overload fuse)
Some inverters design use a beefy heavy transformer, while some other use solid state electronics with smaller transformers. So we cannot judge a inverter by its weight.
Sukam is extremely unlikely to go out of business, since they are continuously launching new products and have several indian design patents. They are if anything expanding more. Especially towards solar inverters.
Around next year I want to add a high capacity inverter,a 5000w bulb load solar inverter so that I can run pretty much any appliance or power tools, plan to completely go off the Bescom crappy grid, no more voltage fluctuation or power cut.
While i was researching on solar inverters sukam is way ahead of luminous in models and features they offer.
But I would never buy there home series inverters.
Sukam is extremely unlikely to go out of business, since they are continuously launching new products and have several indian design patents. They are if anything expanding more. Especially towards solar inverters.
Around next year I want to add a high capacity inverter,a 5000w bulb load solar inverter so that I can run pretty much any appliance or power tools, plan to completely go off the Bescom crappy grid, no more voltage fluctuation or power cut.
While i was researching on solar inverters sukam is way ahead of luminous in models and features they offer.
But I would never buy there home series inverters.
In this thread @adder mentioned that that SUA100UXI takes about 50W without load. My system load on SUA1000UXI peaks about 35% which would translates to about 200W. For a on-battery time of about 5 hours, this would require 85AH battery [(280+50)/0.8*5/24]. Do you guys concur?
I was reading up on Exide VRLA battery. The hall in which i have the UPS/battery has no active cooling as it is not used. The temperature probably go upto 45C in peak summer. The exide plot shows that the battery loses its 50% capacity in about 6 months at 40C. Does this hold true for flooded batteries as well?
I enquired about the SUA1000UXI-IN battery and was told by the customer care that the recommended battery should be between 65 and 150AH. I guess going below 65AH would be detrimental to the battery with 15A charger.
Here is what my SUA1000UXI UPS is reporting, UPS temperature 40C:
I was reading up on Exide VRLA battery. The hall in which i have the UPS/battery has no active cooling as it is not used. The temperature probably go upto 45C in peak summer. The exide plot shows that the battery loses its 50% capacity in about 6 months at 40C. Does this hold true for flooded batteries as well?
I enquired about the SUA1000UXI-IN battery and was told by the customer care that the recommended battery should be between 65 and 150AH. I guess going below 65AH would be detrimental to the battery with 15A charger.
Here is what my SUA1000UXI UPS is reporting, UPS temperature 40C:
Code:
$ /sbin/apcaccess
APC : 001,044,1068
DATE : 2018-05-24 11:58:28 +0530
HOSTNAME : mypc
VERSION : 3.14.13 (02 February 2015) gentoo
UPSNAME : mypc
CABLE : USB Cable
DRIVER : USB UPS Driver
UPSMODE : Stand Alone
STARTTIME: 2018-05-24 11:53:16 +0530
MODEL : Smart-UPS 1000 XL
STATUS : ONBATT
LINEV : 0.0 Volts
LOADPCT : 29.9 Percent
BCHARGE : 71.0 Percent
TIMELEFT : 34.0 Minutes
MBATTCHG : 25 Percent
MINTIMEL : -1 Minutes
MAXTIME : 0 Seconds
OUTPUTV : 219.9 Volts
SENSE : High
DWAKE : -1 Seconds
DSHUTD : 180 Seconds
LOTRANS : 196.0 Volts
HITRANS : 253.0 Volts
RETPCT : 0.0 Percent
ITEMP : 37.8 C
ALARMDEL : 30 Seconds
BATTV : 24.7 Volts
LINEFREQ : 50.0 Hz
LASTXFER : Low line voltage
NUMXFERS : 2
XONBATT : 2018-05-24 11:53:23 +0530
TONBATT : 307 Seconds
CUMONBATT: 308 Seconds
XOFFBATT : 2018-05-24 11:53:22 +0530
SELFTEST : NO
STESTI : 14 days
STATFLAG : 0x05060010
MANDATE : 2006-06-19
SERIALNO : XXXXX
BATTDATE : 2016-07-06
NOMOUTV : 220 Volts
NOMBATTV : 24.0 Volts
FIRMWARE : 600.3.I USB FW:1.5
END APC : 2018-05-24 11:58:30 +0530
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blr_p
Level N
ITEMP : 37.8 C
Was suspecting the ambient temp was high. That will explain why your battery was packing up so soon. VRLA's are temperature dependent and i guess the electrolyte is escaping. 40 degrees plus is pretty hot.
Thing is, whether this is the temperature of the battery or not. Do you have an IR thermometer to double check with ? these batteries are external aren't they
Flooded will last longer as you could top up. In fact in your case flooded is the only option
Talking to a dealer the other day he mentioned Exide's GEL batteries and said those had to be kept in an Air conditioned environment otherwise the warranty is null and void. Ambient temps should be 20-30 and no more. Fantastic (!) Those keeping the batteries out in a balcony were rejected immediately
250/0.8 = 312.5W actual load taking into account ups PF
312.5 * 5 = 1562.5 for five hours
1562.5/24 = 65.1 (for 24V)
derate by 70% = 93AH battery for a C20
derate by 80% = 81AH for a C10
Now there is a temperature coefficient to account for, these AH ratings only apply at 27 degrees C
Without data i'm not sure what that will be but i expect you might have to derate further[DOUBLEPOST=1527176466][/DOUBLEPOST]From the datasheet of a trojan battery there is an interesting graph. As temp increases so does capacity
Was suspecting the ambient temp was high. That will explain why your battery was packing up so soon. VRLA's are temperature dependent and i guess the electrolyte is escaping. 40 degrees plus is pretty hot.
Thing is, whether this is the temperature of the battery or not. Do you have an IR thermometer to double check with ? these batteries are external aren't they
Flooded will last longer as you could top up. In fact in your case flooded is the only option
Talking to a dealer the other day he mentioned Exide's GEL batteries and said those had to be kept in an Air conditioned environment otherwise the warranty is null and void. Ambient temps should be 20-30 and no more. Fantastic (!) Those keeping the batteries out in a balcony were rejected immediately
200+50 = 250 watt load
250/0.8 = 312.5W actual load taking into account ups PF
312.5 * 5 = 1562.5 for five hours
1562.5/24 = 65.1 (for 24V)
derate by 70% = 93AH battery for a C20
derate by 80% = 81AH for a C10
Now there is a temperature coefficient to account for, these AH ratings only apply at 27 degrees C
Without data i'm not sure what that will be but i expect you might have to derate further[DOUBLEPOST=1527176466][/DOUBLEPOST]From the datasheet of a trojan battery there is an interesting graph. As temp increases so does capacity
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@blr_p
Thats the temperature is of the internal temperature of the UPS, no way the UPS will know the battery temperature.
Also the internal temperature he posted is when the UPS was on back up mode, which is hotter then on Mains mode.
@rajil.s
While the temperature effects the capacity, A ups indicator will show the wrong reading since most if not all UPS visual LED indicators show status of battery charge based on the battery voltage and higher the ambient temperature lower the battery voltage and vice versa.
For APC smart UPS there is a battery run time calibration, so that the UPS has a idea of when the battery runs out of juice, so that it can report a more truer charge state and as battery ages it again is out of sync with actual battery charge state, so one needs to run battery runtime calibration periodically if you want to the UPS to show a more realistic state of battery charge.
The visual indicators, battery caliberation does not have any effect on the back up time, for APC UPS the moment per battery voltages reaches 10.5v or lower the UPS will shut off.
If your UPS shows 35% load it means 280w. Since the UPS needs about 50w to run its self about 2amps. You will need a pair of 80ah battery for your load for 5hrs back up assuming you discharge it full 100%. But if you want to discharge it just 80%(for better battery life cycle) then you will need a pair 100AH battery
Thats the temperature is of the internal temperature of the UPS, no way the UPS will know the battery temperature.
Also the internal temperature he posted is when the UPS was on back up mode, which is hotter then on Mains mode.
@rajil.s
While the temperature effects the capacity, A ups indicator will show the wrong reading since most if not all UPS visual LED indicators show status of battery charge based on the battery voltage and higher the ambient temperature lower the battery voltage and vice versa.
For APC smart UPS there is a battery run time calibration, so that the UPS has a idea of when the battery runs out of juice, so that it can report a more truer charge state and as battery ages it again is out of sync with actual battery charge state, so one needs to run battery runtime calibration periodically if you want to the UPS to show a more realistic state of battery charge.
The visual indicators, battery caliberation does not have any effect on the back up time, for APC UPS the moment per battery voltages reaches 10.5v or lower the UPS will shut off.
If your UPS shows 35% load it means 280w. Since the UPS needs about 50w to run its self about 2amps. You will need a pair of 80ah battery for your load for 5hrs back up assuming you discharge it full 100%. But if you want to discharge it just 80%(for better battery life cycle) then you will need a pair 100AH battery
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blr_p
Level N
True but he also said ambient temperatures reach 45 degrees. That is pretty high assuming its the same or close in the hall
Which is why any UPS that purports to show how much % left on the basis of voltage is bogus.
For a fixed load this is a better estimate. But will be unreliable if load varies in say a home ups situation
10.5 is really low, is there any way to tell the UPS to shut off at say 11V or 22V for the sake of battery longevity. This will require an even bigger battery now to get 5h run time
Very good
I have set the system to shutdown when the battery reaches 25%. In the past i used to run UPS without the inverter and the 'TIMELEFT' or run-time used to drop after a few days. Each time I had to reset the battery constant of the UPS (http://www.apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html#resetting-the-ups-battery-constant). Thankfully, after installing the inverter in series the run-time has stabilized.
Mr.J
Level H
rdst_1
Level J
I would definitely not run any two motors/pumps simultaneously. However, the inrush/surge current is something I am really worried about.
I was thinking of fore-going the inverter altogether because I will be buying a cheap generator regardless. The issue of inrush current remajns the same with the generator as well, but it is a whole lot cheaper to oversize the generator than the inverter.
However, it will be costly to run the generator and I am finding my local grid to be a lot more unreliable in this stormy weather than I thought it would be.
So, I am looking at a VFD which can be used to start the motor from 0% and slowly take it to 100% thus eliminating the issue of inrush current once and for all. Just need to find a way in which the VFD can handover the current to regular circuit once motor is up and running as that would allow me to use a single VFD for multiple motors. (as they are quite expensive)
blr_p
Level N
You need to get a mesaurement first
rdst_1
Level J
With a DOL starter inrush current is usually 3-6 times the running current. I'd rather be prepared for the worse case. With VFD, in rush current is no longer an issue as it starts the motor slowly at lower power and voltage. Will just have to consult someone on how to wire it so it hands off the circuit. Even if it doesn't do that, I can just use one motor at a time.
BTW I just installed a BLDC ceiling fan, it consumes just 28 watt at its max speed and compared to my old strongly built ceiling fan which consumes around 25w at lowest possible regulator position (stepless regulator) and guess what I can prolong my 9 year old exide battery for a few more years if I just wanted to run Fan and Led lights.
Consumes just about 6w at the lowest setting not much air flow, 2nd speed is decent for a night sleep (with current bangalore weather time of writing) and at that setting it consumes less power then to charge my phone or less then a wifi router+OpticalFiber switch+cordless landline phone .
Consumes just about 6w at the lowest setting not much air flow, 2nd speed is decent for a night sleep (with current bangalore weather time of writing) and at that setting it consumes less power then to charge my phone or less then a wifi router+OpticalFiber switch+cordless landline phone .
blr_p
Level N
Which model did you get and what is the diameter ? what i notice with new fans is the diameters tend to be less than older
Name of the game here is moving as much a volume of air possible otherwise if you step away from directly underneath its as if there is no fan
The fan was a gorilla fan from atomberg 1200mm with GV2 sticker , according to BEE the GV2 has a air flow of 229cfm, the fan it replaced was a 1980s era crompton four blade 85w.
I was sceptical about airflow, since previously I had purchased my other newer efficient 5 star fans purchased in 2011 which consume around 47w to 51w from crompton and Usha respectively and have a air flow of 210cfm, but they have a really piss poor air spread especially the crompton 5 star like you said unless you are below it no air flow reaches you and you will be forced to put it at full speed. Those fans have really narrow blade width or length.
The Gorilla fan had exact width and length as my 1980s decade year fan and almost similar blade angle. But in terms of the build quality its comparable to those new usha, crompton fans that I bought in 2011 but it just cannot compare to the old 1980 era crompton/orient fans which have much better paint finish, is heavier and are built to outlast our life time
Also on order is a 4 blade fan made by a company that goes by the name as jupiter fan which has a BEE rated 240cfm air flow at 30w compared to gorilla 3 blade 229cfm at 32w. The speed gorilla fans advertize of 27w is at 5th speed setting but they have a even higher boost speed button which consumes close to the bee claimed 32w.
Surprisingly all the mainstream brands like crompton has (1 bldc model), orient(5 bldc models, usha(1 bldc model not yet available), havells(1 bldc not yet available) have lesser airflow and consume more watt compared to these start up companies.
Since the blades are of same size interms of width and length with almost similar tilt angles I cannot say for certain whether the old crompton had more spread at full speed may be the crompton did put out a bit more air since it was a 4 blade vs gorilla 3 blade but subjectively I cannot percive any difference in air flow. Which is why I have ordered a 4 blade bldc fan from jupiter for another room.
I was sceptical about airflow, since previously I had purchased my other newer efficient 5 star fans purchased in 2011 which consume around 47w to 51w from crompton and Usha respectively and have a air flow of 210cfm, but they have a really piss poor air spread especially the crompton 5 star like you said unless you are below it no air flow reaches you and you will be forced to put it at full speed. Those fans have really narrow blade width or length.
The Gorilla fan had exact width and length as my 1980s decade year fan and almost similar blade angle. But in terms of the build quality its comparable to those new usha, crompton fans that I bought in 2011 but it just cannot compare to the old 1980 era crompton/orient fans which have much better paint finish, is heavier and are built to outlast our life time
Also on order is a 4 blade fan made by a company that goes by the name as jupiter fan which has a BEE rated 240cfm air flow at 30w compared to gorilla 3 blade 229cfm at 32w. The speed gorilla fans advertize of 27w is at 5th speed setting but they have a even higher boost speed button which consumes close to the bee claimed 32w.
Surprisingly all the mainstream brands like crompton has (1 bldc model), orient(5 bldc models, usha(1 bldc model not yet available), havells(1 bldc not yet available) have lesser airflow and consume more watt compared to these start up companies.
Since the blades are of same size interms of width and length with almost similar tilt angles I cannot say for certain whether the old crompton had more spread at full speed may be the crompton did put out a bit more air since it was a 4 blade vs gorilla 3 blade but subjectively I cannot percive any difference in air flow. Which is why I have ordered a 4 blade bldc fan from jupiter for another room.
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