Nirbhaya documentary: Why Javed Akhtar, Anu Aga's views differ completely

[asingh]

if you think that this documentary will some how help change attitudes/prevent rapes then you are living in a fools paradise. that can only be done by educating the children the right way (& not just in schools)

One does not need to teach children at home, that women should be respected and not forcefully serially assaulted/sexually maligned. It is an adult aspect. It has to come naturally to our society, that is why it is justified to paint all of Indian males with the paintbrush which this documentary harnesses. Do you actually understand the brevity of this issue..? It far surpasses our stories of pollution, lousy economics and rampant corruption. Society is the essence of humanity. If that is rotten and corroded, how do you expect other aspects to formidably propagate positively..? Male patriarchy translates to, the female gender being subjugated and their value of life negligible. That video clearly shows that. One of the criminals wife laments the loss of her husband and how women have to be protected by men, always. Females are not allowed to raise a question or even answer back. That is apparently what the victim did, and lost her life.

so an entire people is painted with 1 brush because of the thoughts/actions of some. would this happen elsewhere? if 2 members of a family are criminals does that mean the whole family is?

So what is wrong with that..? Does it embarrass you..? It is the reality of life here. The common man in India: holds no value for women. Be they educated or illiterates, irrespective of age.

not denying for 1 moment that we have a huge problem & we need to address it immediately & with great vigor. but currently its portrayed as if India is the undisputed "leader" in the world with a "rape culture" where more Indian men are rapists then not

Well not literal rape. But female suffrage is prominent here in India. That is equivalent, I would say. It starts with the disheartened delight (or lament) of a female birth, worry about "giving her away", collecting dowry, begging the to-be-husbands family to "agree", marriage (being slaves to the boys side), dowry, dowry, dowry, daughter in law being a slave specially to the boys mom, over time the girl transforms into a maid, gives birth to a child. Now she is just a house hold servant. Game over. Is this not rape of a life..? And please do not tell me, "all families" in India do not do this. If we take an average, the storyline I described, would be a correct fitment. That is why it is "rape culture". We are a sick society, as the movie maker has said.

 

[dpandey]

archaic, needs review in the parliament. against the fundamental right of equality.

How long have you known about them and what have you done about it?

 

[booo]

How long have you known about them and what have you done about it?

so you are attacking me now?

 

[asingh]

This messenger has already 'conculded' that it is a sick society (techfan's post above). That was the idea of the whole project. She is giving herself away too easily (already pulled out the 'Freedom of speech' trump card and how she thought it would help in reducing rape 'all over the world');

Why does that get you so knotted up..? It is what it is. Females have no value of life here, man. And suppose if this was not the truth: then why would the Indian government (or you) make such a big deal about it. Pakistan media (and American too), say a ton of things about India daily. Do we ask the world to extinguish their mouths..? It is just, when the dirt on ones shirt is shown, people get uneasy. That is what we all are doing.

I have lived in Delhi and am aware of the attitude of men towards women in that part of the country (still have family there). There is nothing hidden from anyone who reads the news. But this movie isn't about the problem at all.

It is not just Delhi. Please. And if nothing is hidden, then why are we even debating, if this video should have been shown or not. Should we just ignore it. Cause it is so common..! LOL. The movie clearly tells about the elemental societal core, and how it is flawed for India. What more you want..?

 

[drkrack]

How do different nations compare with respect to the per capita perpetration of rape?

I got some interesting data, this is not something I am happy about, but the so called European media needs lot of introspection in their own continent.

It is interesting to note who the worst offenders are and who the "best offenders" are, relatively speaking. The ten nations with the lowest per capita rape rates are:
Saudi Arabia
Azerbaijan
Yemen
Indonesia
Armenia
Georgia
Greece
Macedonoa
Qatar
India


but the 10 nations with the highest per capita rape rates are:
South Africa
Seychelles
Australia
Montserrat
Canada
Jamaica
Zimbabwe
Dominica
USA
Iceland
Looking at the data another way, if we consider India, which is 10th on the "best offenders" ranking, as a benchmark, look at these 4 other nations:
Australia has a 54.4 X greater per capita rape rate than India
Canada has a 51.3 X greater per capita rape rate than India
The US has a 21.1 X greater per capita rape rate than India
And, the UK has a 9.9 X greater per capita rape rate than India
That is pretty sobering...

Now, for the caveats. I can't authenticate the data. I also can't say that rape reporting is equivalent across nations. It is possible that certain societies tolerate rape and don't report it, whereas, reporting may be more complete in "freer" nations.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
[go to the link to see th bar graph]

 

[jith77]

The reason why rape cases are high in Delhi as against many other places in the country is not only because of the men's attitude there. Reporting of cases is higher than culturally conservative regions. And it is also not because females are using less traditional dresses. Again with time more people are willing to report these Incidents.

In the same structure, a conservative country will have less 'reported' rape cases than progressive ones. Just have a look at the list of countries above. Ask any lady whether they find Indian cities 10 or 20 times safer than UK or US if one wants to be laughed at.

 

[blr_p]

What do you think of the khap panchayat?

Up to the young people who live under them to do something. As far as govt goes they are safe, instrumental in getting votes. Threaten that and you see change.

Because of rising living standards, older institutions and norms are being threatened by an upwardly mobile lot. The present govt in reality is actually enabling and accelerating it despite pretenses to the opposite. I see more confrontations happening in the future. challenges to these established norms will increase. culture is never static always evolving otherwise it stagnates or dies.[DOUBLEPOST=1425643706][/DOUBLEPOST]

It is not just Delhi. Please. And if nothing is hidden, then why are we even debating, if this video should have been shown or not. Should we just ignore it. Cause it is so common..! LOL.

Not so differrent to why such a fuss is being made, rape happens all the time. Oh man, we've got some distance to cover here.[DOUBLEPOST=1425643935][/DOUBLEPOST]

Now, for the caveats. I can't authenticate the data. I also can't say that rape reporting is equivalent across nations. It is possible that certain societies tolerate rape and don't report it, whereas, reporting may be more complete in "freer" nations.

Bingo! so now you now why league tables such as this are worthless. Do not see them as a defense, to use them is to pander to people who think india is a rape capital. its a misunderstanding of the subject. No country will be proud of their rape cases record for the simple reason that their women won't stand for it.

 

[blr_p]

Male patriarchy translates to, the female gender being subjugated and their value of life negligible. That video clearly shows that. One of the criminals wife laments the loss of her husband and how women have to be protected by men, always. Females are not allowed to raise a question or even answer back. That is apparently what the victim did, and lost her life.

What is tragic with the govt restraining this documentary is the people most in need of seeing it will not.

She says in one of her interviews, the most valuable compliment she got for this production was from one of the waiters that watched the movie at the hotel when they did a private screening before release. That he told her later when settling the bill that he would resolve to change the way he thought about women. She knew then that she hit the mark and to do that across a cultural boundary is some feat.

I would say. It starts with the disheartened delight (or lament) of a female birth, worry about "giving her away", collecting dowry, begging the to-be-husbands family to "agree", marriage (being slaves to the boys side), dowry, dowry, dowry, daughter in law being a slave specially to the boys mom, over time the girl transforms into a maid, gives birth to a child. Now she is just a house hold servant. Game over. Is this not rape of a life..? And please do not tell me, "all families" in India do not do this. If we take an average, the storyline I described, would be a correct fitment. That is why it is "rape culture". We are a sick society, as the movie maker has said.

Some men see the empowerment of women as a zero sum game. if the woman gets more capable she becomes more powerful and therefore a threat. That is a pretty strong instinct to overcome. At the same time we can't progress as fast if we hold half the population back.

if a girl from a low class is educated and aspires for more then which man in the village will marry her ? But this was not a problem for jyothi's parents. They sold of their land to educate her and lost both in the process. Its so heartbreaking to hear them speak. i hope there will be a nirbhaya hospital in her village one day. This way her spirit will still live on and inspire others.

We learned the backgrounds of the main actors quite well here. Communalism and casteism are out, we are left with just he bare minimum that cuts across all lines.

 

[ashishsahu]

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...pe-convict-paid-rs40000-for-interview-2066496

According to the report, an investigation within Tihar Jail found that Singh had made the demand of Rs. 2 Lakh for the interview. This was later negotiated to Rs. 40,000. Singh agreed to the interview after they settled on this amount, eventhough permission from authorities had already been granted by then. None of the money was found to be in Singh's Prisoner Property account but the reports says that the investigation at Tihar found that Singh's family had received the money.

[DOUBLEPOST=1425650679][/DOUBLEPOST]one may agree or not with the airing of the documentary, but paying the rapist was bad

 

[blr_p]

They had to get his consent, rules of the prison. There are no rules that say you cant interview a convict. Without his statements i think a lot of the thrust would be lost. she said quite clearly it would be superficial without it.

 

[TEUser2K1]

No problem with documentary, but painting all Indian men as misogynist etc. are not going to do any good in the long run.
People are only discussing positive side of that documentary. What can be negative aspects of this documentary on the society, was that fully studied ? Can we define a target audience for this documentary ?

Am afraid the more we drum up this issue, it is somehow creating more violence. Are we giving already violent natured people ideas on how to be more violent ?

Govt. also should've responded intellectually after giving a thorough study on cases like these. Banning is not a practical solution and not an ethical practice.

After viewing that documentary (many here say Indians misogynist so so), should we start treating all men in TE /in this discussion as prospective rapists ? Should all of them be considered hardcore misogynists ? Don't TEians here treat women around (mother, sister, daughter, friends, strangers) them with due respect ?

Why such a fully developed country like USA is still high on Rape stats (even higher than India) ? Why they couldn't control it till date ?

Am afraid there is more to it than trading blames.

 

[mrmash]

What can be negative aspects of this documentary on the society, was that fully studied ? Can we define a target audience for this documentary ?

Am afraid the more we drum up this issue, it is somehow creating more violence. Are we giving already violent natured people ideas on how to be more violent ?

What about shows on TV such as Crime Patrol and Savdhaan India? What about the negative effects of such shows?

These shows are promoting much more violence and giving many ideas to 'would be' criminals.

After viewing that documentary (many here say Indians misogynist so so), should we start treating all men in TE /in this discussion as prospective rapists ? Should all of them be considered hardcore misogynists ? Don't TEians here treat women around (mother, sister, daughter, friends, strangers) them with due respect ?

The Documentary never painted all Indian men as rapists. But it does expose the underlying problems in our society.

 

[cellar_door]

How do different nations compare with respect to the per capita perpetration of rape?

I got some interesting data, this is not something I am happy about, but the so called European media needs lot of introspection in their own continent.

It is interesting to note who the worst offenders are and who the "best offenders" are, relatively speaking. The ten nations with the lowest per capita rape rates are:
Saudi Arabia
Azerbaijan
Yemen
Indonesia
Armenia
Georgia
Greece
Macedonoa
Qatar
India


but the 10 nations with the highest per capita rape rates are:
South Africa
Seychelles
Australia
Montserrat
Canada
Jamaica
Zimbabwe
Dominica
USA
Iceland
Looking at the data another way, if we consider India, which is 10th on the "best offenders" ranking, as a benchmark, look at these 4 other nations:
Australia has a 54.4 X greater per capita rape rate than India
Canada has a 51.3 X greater per capita rape rate than India
The US has a 21.1 X greater per capita rape rate than India
And, the UK has a 9.9 X greater per capita rape rate than India
That is pretty sobering...

Now, for the caveats. I can't authenticate the data. I also can't say that rape reporting is equivalent across nations. It is possible that certain societies tolerate rape and don't report it, whereas, reporting may be more complete in "freer" nations.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
[go to the link to see th bar graph]

Gee you think? Saudi Arabia sure is a great place for women isnt it?

Those "stats" are utterly useless.

 

[hotshot05]

Gee you think? Saudi Arabia sure is a great place for women isnt it?

Those "stats" are utterly useless.

I am surprised to see Saudi Arabia anywhere on that list.
As far as I remember, even if the woman complains that she was raped, it is considered that she has committed adultery by having intercourse with someone outside of marriage. The punishment for adultery was public whipping or something like that.

So my guess was that no woman would report it to the authorities. Maybe good sense has prevailed and laws have been amended.

 

[drkrack]

Gee you think? Saudi Arabia sure is a great place for women isnt it?

Those "stats" are utterly useless.

No stats doesn't say that, that's your interpretation. Stats say that Saudi Arabia is safest as far as crime against women is considered. Considering the punishment for rape in Saudi Arabia its not a surprise.
There's a analysis of the current crime against women scenario on the same site; the inference is that, all countries (with worst crime against women per capita ratios ) are X British colonies & Europe fairs worst !! Probably BBC UK should do a documentary on this as it's more relevant to them!!

If We can conveniently ignore the stats coz it doesn't suit our thinking, we can't blame the government for banning the documentary, they're also banning the documentary coz it doesn't suit their india shining campaign.

As far as I know, there's a hidden agenda of certain agencies to malign India's Image globally. Probably the green peace activists issue is on the similar lines. The government is definitely in a better position to manage this.
Now the question is: who'll benefit by tarnishing India's image globally?

There are places in US, forget women; where men too don't feel safe for going out after 7pm, so we need to be more objective. Off late it's become a fashion to criticize our culture and religious beliefs without a valid reason. I do agree that, we're offenders as far as gender bias is considered, we're corrupt, communal, racist & illogical society. But we are not the worst, and the statistics just say that. Yes, I agree that the situation can be improved a lot & a lot needs to be done.

A lady dentist was not allowed to undergo Abortion in UK because their religious beliefs doesn't allow legal abortions. She succumbed to the consequences of delaying an abortion. Did they make a documentary on that and show internationally? Forget it, did they allow our investigation agencies or media to investigate??

So every country has it's own right to safeguard it's image both nationally and internationally.

 

[anuragingle]

Going through this thread there seems to be an opinion of some people that 'foreign news agencies\ngos\actvists\goverments' are out to make India's image bad

I really pity the thinking of such 'educated' people.

Do we really need outside people to tarnish India's image? NO We Indians seem to do a pretty good job of it ourselves

People are saying that the documentary shows all Indian males as rapists: can anyone tell me one place in the documentary where this statement is made?

The documentary implies that India has a sick culture, of course this is the TRUTH and anybody who doesnt accept it is deluding himself

I have female relatives and friends who travel to work using public transports like trains and buses and every other day they face issues like men trying to touch them or passing bad comments about them or even simply stare at them constantly.
Do you know the mental anguish such constant harassment leads to?

And its not just uneducated people who are guilty of this harassment, even the well educated and seemingly cultured people are no better

Coming back to the Nirbhaya case the Supreme Court stayed the execution of sentences of the accused on March 15 2014, its close to 1 year now and the Supreme Court has still not handed down any judgement.

Does it take 1 year for the Supreme Court to decide if they are guilty or not?

If this is the case with the Supreme Court you can imagine what the situation is with the lower courts

 

[smnrock]

Just completed watching it. All I can say is that its a must watch for everyone. EVERYONE.

So You mean, you need a so called documentary by someone in the 3rd world to understand the core issues we have in india? What is the point here?

 

[anuragingle]

So You mean, you need a so called documentary by someone in the 3rd world to understand the core issues we have in india? What is the point here?

Why is it an issue that the documentary has been made by BBC? watch the documentary and you will see what the the thinking and mentality of the convicts and their lawyers really is

On a side note a documentary such as this should have been made by an Indian news channel but i guess they were busy covering what Sunny Leone had for breakfast

 

[mrmash]

It is such a shame that instead of debating the issues raised in the documentary, we are taking offence on the fact that a foreigner has made it. We truly are a nation of expert offence takers.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Why is it an issue that the documentary has been made by BBC? watch the documentary and you will see what the the thinking and mentality of the convicts and their lawyers really is

On a side note a documentary such as this should have been made by an Indian news channel but i guess they were busy covering what Sunny Leone had for breakfast

This very much. Going to ToI home page is like visiting a pron site at times. Even at this moment you can see video news on gang rape and Sunny Leone video clip in same tab. It is these same channels those shout the most on prime TV against rape cases. If you open some pages in foreign country, they are blocked.

And this is exactly why people here are against media these days. I don't think it is because BBC /foreign media, etc. But it is about media in general. Because media in India is generally sold of to political parties, they rarely produce much content worth watching. Ok, they made people addicted to substandard shit like soaps, big boss, etc...

Plus the type of quick justice which some people want:

http://www.firstpost.com/india/dima...s-led-the-lynch-mob-says-top-cop-2140813.html

"According to a report in The India Express, the police said they could not use force to save the rapist as the lynch mob was led by college and school-going girls. "How could I use maximum force when there were hundreds of girls in school and college uniforms in the front of a massive mob? It was difficult. There would have been several casualties," Dimapur SP Meren Jamir"

I don't know what to say. One one side is slow justice by courts, other side is typical idiot Indians ready for lynch mobs. Barbaric times.