OMG Satyam is dying

[Aces170]

It doesnt work like that mate, ti all depends on the management level thats taking part in the fraud. Auditors are not god sent gifts to investors, they are not there to find fraud. An auditor will check and give an opinion on the transactions of the company, on the basis of the a/c statements they have given.

If Raju made available the bank statement showing 5000cr and if it was really through the bank how do you verify further? Cause it has the bank's seal..

If this is the depth of the whole fraud, then no auditor would have got the wind of this fraud..

The auditors will be penalized in this case due to the size of the fraud, but frankly there's little they can do, when theres evidence supporting the transaction, if its forged then they are not responsible..

Auditors are not god sent gifts, they are paid to the job in which they exactly failed, why would you need external auditors if internal companies a/c would be trusted.

And no dont say its not that simple, its obviously not but they are paid millions to do just that. And you fail to have a theory as to how the hell did analysts at Merill Lynch come to know within a day that the a/c's were forged ? Surely any leeway/freedom Merill Lynch had with Satyam's internal a/c's the auditors had more then that...

Its as simple as some high ranking PWC guy was into this, no other solutions sticks apart from this...

Edit: any TE member at Satyam ?

 

[Party Monger]

Well a cash balance of 5000 crores when other similar companies are struggling should have been enough to raise a curiosity if not a outright suspicion and get a independent bank representation. And then is it that bank statements were never checked by auditors? Dont they vouch / reconcile the bank and company books? More i think about it , the more i m comvinced that there was a accomplice at top level of PWC alongwith Raju.

You really dont understand the scope of an audtor's work, do you?
They are not business analysts. If your argument would be considered, then thousands of brokers would have been suspicious..A bank representation is independent, it has the banks seal on it!!! And what do you mean by not verify? A statement would obviously be forged so that it matches the accounts..GOD:no:

Auditors are not god sent gifts, they are paid to the job in which they exactly failed, why would you need external auditors if internal companies a/c would be trusted.
And no dont say its not that simple, its obviously not but they are paid millions to do just that. And you fail to have a theory as to how the hell did analysts at Merill Lynch come to know within a day that the a/c's were forged ? Surely any leeway/freedom Merill Lynch had with Satyam's internal a/c's the auditors had more then that...

Its as simple as some high ranking PWC guy was into this, no other solutions sticks apart from this...

They are paid millions to verify the accounts not to find frauds. Fraud investigation is much much more in depth and time consuming and costly.
You'l end up paying more for the audit than the whole accounting+billing department..

Simply speaking a fraudster, generally, already knows the system very well, And when he's the CEO of great repute , power and reach (CM is your best friend), then possibilities are limitless..

Im not saying the auditors are clean, it depends on the facts of the case, but Im saying blanket statements with out actual circumstantial knowledge need to be avoided cause the situation is such that you cannot say anything..
PWC will restate the accounts and only then wil the picture be clear..

 

[Aces170]

^^ OMG if this is what the Indian CA is taught we need an urgent re-vamp of the ethics part. External audit is exactly done to check if there is no discrepancy in accounts !!!

And again you missing the main question how the hell was Merill Lynch able to determine the misrepresentation of a/c's within a day ?

 

[obama]

Which site are you talking about ? $100MM is a lot of money, Satyam was listed in 2001 in the US, so prior to that how did it raise $100mm as surely no bank would have financed it so much of money ? So you mean to say almost all of the $100mm was illegal monies, I am surprised as why it dint raise any eyebrows back then ? Infact even Hotmail wasnt sold at that amount... I could not find this deal after a lil googling, perhaps you can help.

here you go buddy

Satyam Completes IndiaWorld Acquisition
now you will argue that Satyam infoway (sify) and satyam are different entities etc....blah blah blah

as i said earlier that was the begining of the racket by the satyam group of companies.
i'm out of this discussion henceforth. please excuse me. revealing any more unpleasant truths or facts is pointless here. better get your daily dose of "happenings" from the eXtremely biased media or Government propaganda.

 

[Party Monger]

^^ OMG if this is what the Indian CA is taught we need an urgent re-vamp of the ethics part. External audit is exactly done to check if there is no discrepancy in accounts !!!

And again you missing the main question how the hell was Merill Lynch able to determine the misrepresentation of a/c's within a day ?

discrepancy= ERROR =! fraud

Theres no need for name calling, its a pretty simple concept, Fraud is done with malicious intent, In such a large company, you'l spend a whole year if you check transactions in that detail and due to the planning of the fraudster, still not find it..There are special fraud detection audits for the rest..An auditor is not a person with a magic wand, waive it and find all the frauds..

Be realistic, PWC wil be penalized, but it wont bear the whole brunt of the case if the documents it was provided were reliable..This case isnt the same as Enron, there was overstatement, which could ideally have been just 2 simple accounting entries..

They may face negligence charges, and frankly all this we're saying is really nothing concrete and jus one change of fact and everything may change..For all we know they could have partnered the whole damn fraud..

I havent read abt the merill lynch(bank of america) case, gimme some links, From wat i know, they relied on the letter and resigned as the investment advisors or watever they were..Ramalingam ruju had mentioned them in the report..

 

[obama]

one last piece of info.
all these phoren accounting firms are nothing but brokers of tainted money. They are extremely efficient in laundering bad blood money be it dope from south america, black gold from middle east or blood money (Diamonds, gold) from africa.
The sooner they are thrown out of the country the better. They would gladly sell their mothers and daughters if they can make money out of it. they have no morals or ethics.

These merchants of death should be debarred from our shores, PwC, merry lynched ..all of them.

Our indian accounting standards and firms headed by indians are much better, atleast they do frauds within managable limits !!!

 

[6pack]

merry lynched ..all of them.

Our indian accounting standards and firms headed by indians are much better, atleast they do frauds within managable limits !!!

:rofl: sorry for laughing, but cant resist. :rofl:
that sounded too too funny.

 

[Party Monger]

one last piece of info.
all these phoren accounting firms are nothing but brokers of tainted money. They are extremely efficient in laundering bad blood money be it dope from south america, black gold from middle east or blood money (Diamonds, gold) from africa.
The sooner they are thrown out of the country the better. They would gladly sell their mothers and daughters if they can make money out of it. they have no morals or ethics.

These merchants of death should be debarred from our shores, PwC, merry lynched ..all of them.

Our indian accounting standards and firms headed by indians are much better, atleast they do frauds within managable limits !!!

LAWL..All that coming from Obama :lol::rofl:

 

[blr_p]

This all would never have happened if the Maytas deal went through.

Investors opposed buying such an expensive company. All went downhill after that.

 

[raksrules]

^^The Maytas (reverse of SATYAM) deal was actually being done so that the gross difference between the actual and the forged amounts can be minimized. By buying Maytas they wanted to show that all the FORGED money was spent in buying that company and hence this way they would have converted the *NON EXISTENT* money.

 

[techie_007]

This all would never have happened if the Maytas deal went through.

Investors opposed buying such an expensive company. All went downhill after that.

You do realise that the buyout was just to cover all the financial irregularities they had done?

 

[raksrules]

^^^^^^^^^^ +1

 

[greenhorn]

but i wonder, in that case if those two wrongs would have eventually made a right

 

[raksrules]

Satyam shares below 20 mark. Should one buy some ?

 

[thetechmind]

Satyam shares below 20 mark. Should one buy some ?

until and unless we hear of a takeover from another company with good credentials - NO

 

[p_sam21]

You really dont understand the scope of an audtor's work, do you?
They are not business analysts. If your argument would be considered, then thousands of brokers would have been suspicious..A bank representation is independent, it has the banks seal on it!!! And what do you mean by not verify? A statement would obviously be forged so that it matches the accounts..GOD:no:

Yes i do understand since i am a finance professional. Till now no one has said that the statements had bank seal and all. PWC is still checking their own audit evidences. And independent representation does not mean some paper of third party. A true independent representation is when auditor writes to banks to vouch the correctness of figure.

 

[blr_p]

You do realise that the buyout was just to cover all the financial irregularities they had done?

Absolutley, it was a brilliant idea.

Realise that you only ever find out about any wrongdoing when there is a problem. It should never have got this far.

What about elsewhere, think it does not happen. Of course it does and will always continue to do so regardless of the rules

 

[Party Monger]

Yes i do understand since i am a finance professional. Till now no one has said that the statements had bank seal and all. PWC is still checking their own audit evidences. And independent representation does not mean some paper of third party. A true independent representation is when auditor writes to banks to vouch the correctness of figure.

Yeah, no one knows the details, best we stop speculating..But one thing for sure,involved or not, PWC wil have to do a lot of image building..:rofl:

 

[p_sam21]

This all would never have happened if the Maytas deal went through.

Investors opposed buying such an expensive company. All went downhill after that.

Apart from being a cover up tactic, it was way overpriced and would have led to bleeding of satyam eventually.

 

[Chaos]

Apart from being a cover up tactic, it was way overpriced and would have led to bleeding of satyam eventually.

You think even one penny would have been transferred from satyam to maytas if the deal went through :bleh: :bleh: