41-50k PC for learning/virtualization

[vivek.krishnan]

Also, I have a fair experience with VMs. If you could tell me exactly what OS, apps, DBs etc. you are going to use, we can narrow down the choices together. Do you plan to purchase VMWare or will you be using virtualbox or would you buy Hyper-V?

I doubt he would buy any of them - more likely he will use an ahem version or the free/trial versions.

I would suggest to have a minimum of 4C with higher clockspeeds as he is going to use for all in one, however for production VM - (more) cores over (minimum) clockspeed always.

 

[atiamd]

I don't think buying 2400G makes any sense for non gaming build.

We cannot tell if this is true unless we know for sure what kind of work is going to be done on the VMs. Some apps prefer higher IPC and higher clock speeds and some apps would prefer higher thread/CPU count. Sure, HT/SMT can in some workloads be detrimental in the sense that the cache is shared between the logical CPUs on the same physical CPU core and if the app is not optimised and start using both threads on the same pCPU at the same time, then you know! For other apps, it can speed up the process if the apps are optimized to use the vCPUs properly.

TLDR: Which CPU is best for his use case is hard to determine without knowing the exact specific details. Therefore, in general, more threads are considered to perform better. And, since 2400G has more threads than i5, it wins even if by a small margin at very similar costs. Actual build cost for Ryzen may even come out to be lower than the one based around i5 because of lower motherboard prices!

https://blog.heroix.com/blog/vmware-vcpu-over-allocation
https://www.nersc.gov/users/computa...performance-and-optimization/hyper-threading/

 

[Him]

I doubt he would buy any of them - more likely he will use an ahem version or the free/trial versions.

I think the same.

We cannot tell if this is true unless we know for sure what kind of work is going to be done on the VMs. Some apps prefer higher IPC and higher clock speeds and some apps would prefer higher thread/CPU count. Sure, HT/SMT can in some workloads be detrimental in the sense that the cache is shared between the logical CPUs on the same physical CPU core and if the app is not optimised and start using both threads on the same pCPU at the same time, then you know! For other apps, it can speed up the process if the apps are optimized to use the vCPUs properly.

TLDR: Which CPU is best for his use case is hard to determine without knowing the exact specific details. Therefore, in general, more threads are considered to perform better. And, since 2400G has more threads than i5, it wins even if by a small margin at very similar costs. Actual build cost for Ryzen may even come out to be lower than the one based around i5 because of lower motherboard prices!

https://blog.heroix.com/blog/vmware-vcpu-over-allocation
https://www.nersc.gov/users/computa...performance-and-optimization/hyper-threading/

2400G has 2 more threads but 8400 has 2 more cores so it's not easy to conclude which will win for VM. Cost will be similar due 3000/3200 MHz RAM prices for Ryzen. Some discussion on the matter https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/426675-physical-cores-logical-processors-and-vcpu-in-vmware

 

[Chaos]

I think the same.

2400G has 2 more threads but 8400 has 2 more cores so it's not easy to conclude which will win for VM. Cost will be similar due 3000/3200 MHz RAM prices for Ryzen. Some discussion on the matter https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/426675-physical-cores-logical-processors-and-vcpu-in-vmware

Extra physical cores is always more beneficial than threads. Also clock to clock, the 8400 is significantly faster in most things than the 2400g. However as far as the igpu is concerned, the 2400g is in a completely different league.

 

[Him]

Extra physical cores is always more beneficial than threads. Also clock to clock, the 8400 is significantly faster in most things than the 2400g. However as far as the igpu is concerned, the 2400g is in a completely different league.

That is what I thought and recommended the i5 8400 over 2400G.

 

[GamerKing#]

I will recommend you to go for:

AM Ryzen 2400G
Gigabyte A320 Chipset Based board
8GB 2400MHz or 3000 Mhz DDR4 Ram
120GB SSD
1TB HDD
Cooler Master Q300L Cabinet.
Rs 31,000 /-

There's is a company called ant-pc.com they are also running offer with this config at 36k approx where they are giving free gaming keyboard and mouse as well with onsite warranties and all .. maybe you can try that too? They are Delhi based..

Else you can build yourself by buying parts from Mdcomputers, theitdepot or SMCInternational..

Do add some RGB Strips nowadays they will cost you around Rs 700 it will add to aesthetics..!

 

[sunily]

Thanks for discussion and your responses. My response to some of the questions asked earlier.

No, I have no plan to buy any hyperviser. I will be using free stuff like vmplayer.

VMs would be required to learn about analytics (Python, R, SAS, MySQL)
One VM can be used to install these apps and another for learning big data/Hadoop nodes.
With MySQL I will also be installing some query builders/visualizers to navigate to database schema.

So, with i5 8400, it have 6C but low frequency 2.8GHz. Can HT be enabled on it? If yes, I will get 12 logical processors which can be used to assign to VMs.

AMD Ryzen 2400G have 4C/8T 3.9GHz. Should I assume that those 8T are equivalent to above 12 logical processors? Can I
Can HT be enabled on B350 chipset as well? If yes, then 8 x 2 =16 vcpu is what I get.
If not, then are 12 2.8GHz vcpu better than 8 3.9GHZ vcpu?

Man, I am so confused between these 2.

About gaming, its not that I won't play games at all, but should not happen that it won't play anything even at low setting. That's why I earlier picked 2400G as its iGPU is better than Intel. But gaming is not priority, so considering i5 as well. I won't be upgrading processors for next few years that's why thinking so much on this part.

Since both these CPU costs almost same (1k diff), what about the Mobo? Can I get ATX mobo for i5 in same cost as B350?
Or this will add couple of thousands more damage to my pocket? Note that I need 6 SATA connectors to fulfill my need.

 

[Party Monger]

2400G has 2 more threads but 8400 has 2 more cores so it's not easy to conclude which will win for VM. Cost will be similar due 3000/3200 MHz RAM prices for Ryzen. Some discussion on the matter https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/426675-physical-cores-logical-processors-and-vcpu-in-vmware

Actually its pretty easy, One with more physical cores is better. HT only allows for better use of resources, doesnt add resources. A 50% increase in cores vs 10% extra juice via HT is not comparable.

 

[Chaos]

So, with i5 8400, it have 6C but low frequency 2.8GHz. Can HT be enabled on it? If yes, I will get 12 logical processors which can be used to assign to VMs.

AMD Ryzen 2400G have 4C/8T 3.9GHz. Should I assume that those 8T are equivalent to above 12 logical processors? Can I
Can HT be enabled on B350 chipset as well? If yes, then 8 x 2 =16 vcpu is what I get.
If not, then are 12 2.8GHz vcpu better than 8 3.9GHZ vcpu?

Can't answer the rest but just want to clear some misconceptions here. The i5 8400 has an all core boost of 3.8 GHz and I've never seen it go below those clocks.

The low 2.8 GHz base clocks are only active under heavy AVX2 loads. With a VM workload, they'll pretty much be running at 3.8 or 3.9 GHz all the time.

Finally no you can't enable hyperthreading. i5 8400 is a 6C/6T CPU.

 

[Him]

Thanks for discussion and your responses. My response to some of the questions asked earlier.

No, I have no plan to buy any hyperviser. I will be using free stuff like vmplayer.

VMs would be required to learn about analytics (Python, R, SAS, MySQL)
One VM can be used to install these apps and another for learning big data/Hadoop nodes.
With MySQL I will also be installing some query builders/visualizers to navigate to database schema.

So, with i5 8400, it have 6C but low frequency 2.8GHz. Can HT be enabled on it? If yes, I will get 12 logical processors which can be used to assign to VMs.

AMD Ryzen 2400G have 4C/8T 3.9GHz. Should I assume that those 8T are equivalent to above 12 logical processors? Can I
Can HT be enabled on B350 chipset as well? If yes, then 8 x 2 =16 vcpu is what I get.
If not, then are 12 2.8GHz vcpu better than 8 3.9GHZ vcpu?

Man, I am so confused between these 2.

About gaming, its not that I won't play games at all, but should not happen that it won't play anything even at low setting. That's why I earlier picked 2400G as its iGPU is better than Intel. But gaming is not priority, so considering i5 as well. I won't be upgrading processors for next few years that's why thinking so much on this part.

Since both these CPU costs almost same (1k diff), what about the Mobo? Can I get ATX mobo for i5 in same cost as B350?
Or this will add couple of thousands more damage to my pocket? Note that I need 6 SATA connectors to fulfill my need.

You're confusing base frequency with boost frequency. The 3.9GHz is the boost frequency of 2400G. 8400 has boost frequency of 4GHz on single core and 3.8GHz on all cores. In VM you won't get 16 vCPUs with 2400G only 8. If you've checked the link I posted then you'll know that those logical cores aren't as useful as physical cores for VM. The choice is actually easy here. i5 is the better overall CPU, pick 2400G only if you're gaming without discrete GPU. I am providing both Intel and AMD configurations choose one depending on your needs-

Intel-

CPU - i5 8400

Mobo - MSI B360M Pro-VDH

PSU- Corsair TX550M

RAM- at least 2400MHz or higher from reputed manufacturer. Buy whichever the cheapest

AMD-

CPU - R5 2400G

Mobo - Gigabyte AB350 gaming 3

RAM - at least 3000MHz or higher

 

[sunily]

Thanks @Him @Party Monger @Chaos to help narrow down options.

I think I will go with this:

CPU - i5 8400 13500
MSI B360M Pro-VDH - 8000
Gskill Rpijaws 3000MHz 2x8GB - 15000
36500

which PSU is better among these?
Corsair TX550M 5500
Corsair CX550 4200

Incase, I extend my budget by 5-10k, what should be best options for?
GPU - (case I want to use it for gaming) which is cheap and best in 5-7k range
Monitor 21"+ (I would prefer this over GPU) - To extend display which help in learning (reading from 1, typing on other)
UPS - Enough backup to power CPU and monitor and shutdown system when power gone (10-15mins)

Once list is final then I will check rates from local vendor in Gurugram or visit Nehru Place.
RAM rates are too high, if there is any possibility that rates will come down, I can wait a bit.

I may also add wireless keyboard/mouse. If I do, then should I have to buy a USB hub to place it on top and insert receiver so that it is inline with devices or placing the receiver on back side of CPU can catch signals?

 

[Party Monger]

Thanks @Him @Party Monger @Chaos to help narrow down options.

I think I will go with this:

CPU - i5 8400 13500
MSI B360M Pro-VDH - 8000
Gskill Rpijaws 3000MHz 2x8GB - 15000
36500

which PSU is better among these?
Corsair TX550M 5500
Corsair CX550 4200

Incase, I extend my budget by 5-10k, what should be best options for?
GPU - (case I want to use it for gaming) which is cheap and best in 5-7k range
Monitor 21"+ (I would prefer this over GPU) - To extend display which help in learning (reading from 1, typing on other)
UPS - Enough backup to power CPU and monitor and shutdown system when power gone (10-15mins)

Once list is final then I will check rates from local vendor in Gurugram or visit Nehru Place.
RAM rates are too high, if there is any possibility that rates will come down, I can wait a bit.

I may also add wireless keyboard/mouse. If I do, then should I have to buy a USB hub to place it on top and insert receiver so that it is inline with devices or placing the receiver on back side of CPU can catch signals?

You're welcome mate

If you want to spend more, add a display. Hp 22es or LG mp68vq. Pick based on whether you prefer black or silver body) Both great monitors, I have both, and they are best VFM and Quality. Both go for 9k generally, and 8k during sales. Wait a bit on this and buy when price is right. Recent Amazon sale, both were going for 8.1k.

The onboard GPU will be enough to handle 3 displays.

 

[Him]

Thanks @Him @Party Monger @Chaos to help narrow down options.

I think I will go with this:

CPU - i5 8400 13500
MSI B360M Pro-VDH - 8000
Gskill Rpijaws 3000MHz 2x8GB - 15000
36500

which PSU is better among these?
Corsair TX550M 5500
Corsair CX550 4200

Incase, I extend my budget by 5-10k, what should be best options for?
GPU - (case I want to use it for gaming) which is cheap and best in 5-7k range
Monitor 21"+ (I would prefer this over GPU) - To extend display which help in learning (reading from 1, typing on other)
UPS - Enough backup to power CPU and monitor and shutdown system when power gone (10-15mins)

Once list is final then I will check rates from local vendor in Gurugram or visit Nehru Place.
RAM rates are too high, if there is any possibility that rates will come down, I can wait a bit.

I may also add wireless keyboard/mouse. If I do, then should I have to buy a USB hub to place it on top and insert receiver so that it is inline with devices or placing the receiver on back side of CPU can catch signals?

You can save some money by going for DDR4 2400-2666MHz for 12-12.5K. H370, B360 or H310 chipset supports DDR4 upto 2666MHz You won't get any performance benefit by buying 3000MHz RAM. Among those two PSUs TX550M is better. GPU prices are high and if you have a sine wave inverter in home, there is no need to buy UPS. Spend the extra on a monitor. Agree with the @Party Monger suggestion. HP 22ES is a great monitor. I had the bigger 24ES and the picture quality on that was good. Set the overdrive to level 2 and the response time is almost comparable to TN monitors with no noticeable ghosting. For your last query, there is no need to buy USB hub to connect wireless mouse/keyboard.