31-40k PC for Viewing CCTV DVR output remotely

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We are going for this DVR

AVTRON 16CH Video/16Ch
Audio Stand Alone DVR, H.264
Compression, D1 in Preview,
16CH D1 with 25FPS, 4CH D1 &
16CIF Playback, 2HDD up to
2TB(4TB) or 1HDD & 1 SATA
DVD-RW, HDMI/3G/WIFI, DDNS,
CMS Software + Mobile Viewing
Support, VGA, Monitor

Is this good enough ?
Is it recording all 16 channels in D1 quality at 25FPS ?
What is the meaning of 4CH D1 and 16CIF Playback. Any idea ?

Thanks for advising
 
shravank30 said:
We are going for this DVR

AVTRON 16CH Video/16Ch

Is this good enough ?
Is it recording all 16 channels in D1 quality at 25FPS ?
What is the meaning of 4CH D1 and 16CIF Playback. Any idea ?

Thanks for advising
Click to expand...

You have not stated the model number - so this is what I presume AT-0416V-L

Here are the full tech specs of your DVR

This is what I interpret
1] Playback Quality > PAL, CIF (352x288); NTSC, CIF (352x240)(real-time)
- This is NOT D1 704 x 480 quality or resolution

2] The D1 in preview is most likely an "upscaled" resolution of the CIF

3] 4 CH @ Full D1 Recording,
8 CH @ 2 CH D1 + 6 CH CIF Recording,
16CH@ All CH CIF Recording
- This is puzzling as it says only 4 channels in Full D1 recording;
8 CH > 2 CH in D1 + 6 CH in CIF
This still does not make up a total of 16 CH......
and then 16CH > all CIF ??
Something is amiss, or else I am not reading it correctly

4] CCTV Resolutions - FYI Only
D1 Resolution - 704 x 480
CIF Resolution - 352 x 240
QCIF Resolution - 176 x 120

As you can see from the above ONLY D1 gives you the best IQ.

The h264 codec used is fine.

5] The "recording Resolution" data given on the site is incorrect > CIF: 400fps PAL, 480fps NTSC D1: 100fps PAL, 120fps NTSC
- the "fps" is wrong

THIS MODEL SEEMS TO BE THE BEST OF THE LOT - as it claims Full D1 recording/playback across all channels
Ask your vendor for the above model with 16CH Full D1 (the listed one indicated only 4CH's although they state "Central Monitoring Station Support up to 256CH with 99 Sites")
 
shravank30 said:
A single software will control all the DVRs and in fact it can control upto 6 DVRS at a time
Click to expand...

That changes things completely. This means that the software can use IP addressing to control each DVR and if possible, camera (if your camera and DVR support it). Remember the earlier discussion was on the basis of each DVR needing its own copy of software, which meant that one DVR could be viewed only by one thread.

Yes, then an i7 is not overkill. You can slack back on the chipset, as the video will be processed by the CPU and not the chipset. I would hazard a guess that a H61 board with a HDMI output is what you should be looking for, failing which a B75 will also work out just fine. The usual suspect here is the Gigabyte B75M-D3H but it has some handshake issues with HDMI, so a DVI-HDMI converter or cable is recommended (no handshake failures there).
 
The PC will control the PTZ cameras we are installing to rotate, move up down or zoom into a particular zone.
Balance cameras, the supervisor can only blow up the image to full screen from the thumbnail, in case he finds anything suspicious for a more detailed view in that particular camera area.

The DVR recommended is fishy I think.
I have asked the vendor to confirm again that it can record playback and display all 16 channels at 25FPS in true D1 quality

I should get the confirmation tonight or tomorrow and will post the outcome here

Thanks for advising
 
shravank30 said:
The DVR recommended is fishy I think.
I have asked the vendor to confirm again that it can record playback and display all 16 channels at 25FPS in true D1 quality

I should get the confirmation tonight or tomorrow and will post the outcome here
Click to expand...

The 25fps (frames/second) is not very important
25fps is for PAL (what we use in India/Asia)
30fps is NTSC (USA & parts of Europe)

the D1 option is selectable for any of the above

30fps would not prove any problems as all existing monitors or LED/LCD/plasma TV's in India handle this with ease. And so also in future if you wish to stream it to mobile devices, the 25/30fps would not pose any problems.

What is very important is that ALL Channels should record/playback in D1 at 704 x 480 resolution.

The CIF (Common Intermediate Format) is not acceptable 352 x 240 or 352 x 288 & the worst is QCIF (Quarter CIF) 176 x 120 or 176 x 144.
 
I beg to differ from you that FPS is not important.

In case of an incident, and we play back the recording which is anything less the 25FPS even if it is in D1 , the recording will show the movement in jerks and the number of frames which we can capture will be much less

http: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qbisjJNt-EThere are

Thats why we are going for 400FPS D1 DVR so that we get 25FPS D1 quality in each DVR

Thanks for advising
 
shravank30 said:
I beg to differ from you that FPS is not important.

In case of an incident, and we play back the recording which is anything less the 25FPS even if it is in D1 , the recording will show the movement in jerks and the number of frames which we can capture will be much less

http: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qbisjJNt-EThere are

Thats why we are going for 400FPS D1 DVR so that we get 25FPS D1 quality in each DVR

Thanks for advising
Click to expand...

Apologies - I messed up. Of course FPS is important, what I meant that the DVR should support either/both 25/30 fps as you will not have any playback issues today. This problem was extremely difficult to resolve 20-25 years ago in India as most of the equipment that we used was only 25 fps PAL - so especially folks who came down from the US with cams or vcr's had 30fps used to face this problem as monitors could not display the output (one had to use an NTSC>PAL converter). CCTV DVR's resort to variable frame rates - say 7, 12, 15 etc fps so that one can save on HDD space.

I am/was confused with the new terminology of 400fps at full D1 resolution recorded at 25fps - this probably means for 16 channels it can simultaneously record 400 frames per second (16 x 25 = 400), if my logic & math are right.

This ad helped me understand better http://downloads.rhinoco.com.au/products/dvr16400d1/dvr16400d1_eng_brochure.pdf
 
terence_fdes said:
CPU - i5 3570

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H [sturdy & robust board]
- Display Options [HDMI, DVI, RGB and Display Port]
- LAN Dual LAN (Intel® Gigabit + Atheros Gigabit Ethernet controllers)
- PCI Only 1 slot
- PCIe - 6 slots
Note: I am unable to find an robust H77 board with the above (top 3 requirement options), ideally 2 more PCI slots will be better

CPU Cooler : CM Hyper 212 Evo [as your RIG will be running 24x7 .... this is the cheapest quality cooling option for the i5, the stock heat spreaders by Intel are crap]

You may also need 2TB x 3 HDD's depending on how long (weeks/months) you want to preserve archived footage.
A Cabinet with very good ventilation & plenty of fans [as your system will be running 24x7] - so Corsair Carbide 400R & fit it with all the possible fans :happy: (keeping in mind air-flow direction)

PSU: Seasonic S12II 520W

RAM : 4GB x 2 (this may seem too much, however for the criticality of running 24x7 if a single 4Gb crashes - you still have the other one > thus minimising downtime to bare minimum)

I do not think there is need for any GPU (unless the dual monitor option works out)

Dunno if these links may serve any purpose but heregoes
http://www.dvrmart.com/mrt-asp-dvr_averdigi-nv6480pcII-pid_541-ctt-product_detail.htm
http://www.apexcctv.com/p-1239-32-camera-pc-based-security-dvr-system.aspx
http://platinum-cctv.com/Alnet_RT16PRO_DVR_Card.asp

Cheers
Terry
Click to expand...
@terence_fdes

Does this combo make sense for my use, if I get it at around 25K new
Will it fully serve my purpose ?

Intel core i7 2600k with asus p8 z68-v pro/gen.3 mobo

I think I will have to spend for a GPU also as it goes not have any display ports.

Is it VFM ?

Thanks for advising
 
Buddy

Why are you making the assumption that the software provided by the manufacturer can infact use the video card? If you are looking for watching both the dvr output, then I would recommend you to invest heavily on the connectivity part. Make sure its minimally Gigabit.

The thumbnail quality isn't that high resolution to warrant a strong processor and gpu. I have a similar setup in my society and what we have done is a mini-itx computer + Intel HD CPU, this one does the work more than enough. Remember that you are going to need high network throughput and GPU processing only when you are looking at HD transmission. Looking at your DVR spec "D1" that's DVD quality, so why bother? And I am sure you are not going to invest in 16 channel HD DVR ( I guess dahua has them), cause they cost a bomb. And even you get those DVR make sure that there view area is very well lit in night otherwise they are useless.

I would suggest start with

Mini-ITX + Intel G2010
Gigabit connectivity + Gigabit Router <- This is very important
256 Gb 2.5" HD <- For 24x7 running.
1Tb <- Purely storage, don't use for 24x7 running, cause the heat generated according to where the machine is kept will kill it eventually. Hence I have recommended 256Gb.
Samsung 40" HD TV <- Any smaller then this and the thumbnails will be very small to catch attention as what's happening.

If you identify that above combination is not keeping up then you can definitely add another GPU.

Needless to say keep the box in a well ventilated place.

And finally, nope you are NOT generating throughput the same as gaming does.

Regards,
LT
 
shravank30 said:
@terence_fdes

Does this combo make sense for my use, if I get it at around 25K new
Will it fully serve my purpose ?

Intel core i7 2600k with asus p8 z68-v pro/gen.3 mobo

I think I will have to spend for a GPU also as it goes not have any display ports.

Is it VFM ?

Thanks for advising
Click to expand...

NO - the Z68 boards are already outdated, the i7-2600k is ok (but not comparable to i7-3770).

+1 on what @linuxtechie has recommended - Gigabit connectivity + Gigabit Router <- This is very important - I agree as D1 will be high bandwidth

There are some new aspects to this discussion (the above Gigabit connectivity) + need for a minimum 40" HDTV 1080p - (I do not think it necessary to go for samsung/sony here - any other cheaper brand would do AOC for example

About 32" or 40" - It is best if OP has verified/checked a demo of 32 CH's to take a final call - if possible check it out on both 720p (HD ready sets) or 1080p (full HD).

I re-iterate that do not scrimp on spending money for quality components - eg Gigabyte UD3/UD5/UD7 motherboards [UD~Ultra Durable] - these are built of the "best quality components" which will ensure trouble free running for 24 x 7 situations; same is the case for the PSU - Chose "Seasonic" & cabinet - Corsair Carbide 400R - with extra 120/140mm fans.
 
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This is the complete model number of the DVR recommended

http://www.avtrontech.com/AT-1616V-LD.html

The specs clearly say 1-25 fps user selectable for all channels in full D1 in recording as well as playback

I think it serves my purpose, but would appreciate if you could also go through the same in case I have missed something
I will recommend the CPU - i5 3570

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H combo to the vendor with a Seasonic or Corsair HX series 500W SMPS and a Corsair Carbide 400R Cabinet

Lets see his response

Thanks for advising
 
shravank30 said:
This is the complete model number of the DVR recommended

http://www.avtrontech.com/AT-1616V-LD.html

The specs clearly say 1-25 fps user selectable for all channels in full D1 in recording as well as playback

I think it serves my purpose, but would appreciate if you could also go through the same in case I have missed something
Click to expand...

YES - THATS RIGHT. THIS MODEL IS FINE & YOU ARE GOOD TO GO.:happy:

Now you gotta finalise on your PC + Monitor [32" or 42"] and the Giga routers.
 
terence_fdes said:
YES - THATS RIGHT. THIS MODEL IS FINE & YOU ARE GOOD TO GO.:happy:

Now you gotta finalise on your PC + Monitor [32" or 42"] and the Giga routers.
Click to expand...

The vendor is recommending just this "
Unmanaged Network Switch 8 Port(NetGear / Dlink)

DVR 2 LAN Cable will come to DVR 1 where the switch will be placed and from there 1 Lan cable will go the PC Room

Is this arrangement sufficient ?

For the TVs, we are planning to for a 32" or a 40" HD Ready LED TV and see the performance.
If necessary we will add a similar size TV later if the thumbnails are too small

Is this correct ?

Thanks for advising
 
shravank30 said:
The vendor is recommending just this "
Unmanaged Network Switch 8 Port(NetGear / Dlink)

DVR 2 LAN Cable will come to DVR 1 where the switch will be placed and from there 1 Lan cable will go the PC Room

Is this arrangement sufficient ?
Click to expand...

This is not in my realm of knowledge to comment. So I will leave it to other's.



For the TVs, we are planning to for a 32" or a 40" HD Ready LED TV and see the performance.
If necessary we will add a similar size TV later if the thumbnails are too small

Is this correct ?

Thanks for advising
Click to expand...


This is a "penny wise pound foolish" decision (apologies for being blunt). If you are looking at 32 feeds (channels/thumb prints), then look at Full HD resolution sets...... It does'nt matter which brand you settle at (Mitashi, Phillips, Onida, AOC or even Micromax). You would also have to go in for a minimum 21.5" or 22" PC Monitor having 1920 x 1080 resolution (lower than this PC Monitors having 1920x1080 are not available & especially with HDMI connectivity..... the latter can be dispensed with as DVI-D would also serve the purpose.

The PC-Screen monitor resolution (and in your case it gets more complex as you are going to have 2 DVR's, so 16 x 2 split screen windows) will get outputted onto your 32" or 40" TV.
 
terence_fdes said:
This is not in my realm of knowledge to comment. So I will leave it to other's.






This is a "penny wise pound foolish" decision (apologies for being blunt). If you are looking at 32 feeds (channels/thumb prints), then look at Full HD resolution sets...... It does'nt matter which brand you settle at (Mitashi, Phillips, Onida, AOC or even Micromax). You would also have to go in for a minimum 21.5" or 22" PC Monitor having 1920 x 1080 resolution (lower than this PC Monitors having 1920x1080 are not available & especially with HDMI connectivity..... the latter can be dispensed with as DVI-D would also serve the purpose.

The PC-Screen monitor resolution (and in your case it gets more complex as you are going to have 2 DVR's, so 16 x 2 split screen windows) will get outputted onto your 32" or 40" TV.
Click to expand...


No apologies required. I want you to be blunt so that I do not have regrets later!
We were going for a HD Ready LED TV only because the input coming to the TVs is not in full HD but is in much lower resolution. So whether we use Full HD or HD ready, the picture is going to remain the same. Am I correct in my logic?
If the picture will still be better in a Full HD LED TV, we shall go for a Full HD TV, if recommended by you.
As I said earlier, a few thousand Rupees is immaterial to us.
Secondly, do I have to go for a PC Monitor also? What is its use ?
Can We not take the output directly to the TVs ?

Thanks for advising
 
Of course you can take the output directly to your TV.

However, for all practical purposes the Desktop Monitor/PC monitor (22" or 24") will be kept on a desk - next to a Keyboard & Mouse. Call this the "primary monitor" - It will be far easier to navigate all your tasks on this monitor (especially with the mouse). It's settings will be at 1920 x 1080 - this gives you the maximum real estate. Contrast this against using a single 40" TV - which will be kept at some distance & height too, performing routine functions on this large screen becomes very difficult with a mouse. It does not matter that the signal inputs coming into your PC is not Full HD. As you will be looking at 16x2=32 chs - whose visibility & layout will be better.

Now if you chose a non Full HD desktop monitor, you will be working at 1280 x 720 screen resolution (which will match also with your 32" - 40" HD ready set).

I would suggest a simple excercise - Use any Desktop Monitor having capability of 1920 x 1080 screen resolution.
1] Take some 32 images (photos), all should be of the same size (height + width). Keep all of them in a single folder.
2] Use any image viewing program (say XnView) to view all of these 32 images as thumbnails onto your screen.
3] Now change the screen resolution to lower settings.

Repeat the same now with a non-HD monitor

Lastly - at my home I am using a Dell 23" Ultrasharp Monitor for my Desktop at 1920 x 1080 settings (connected to my PC/GPU using display port connection). I have also connected my 47" LG LED TV (full HD) using a 10 meter HDMI cable (we use the 47" for watching full HD movies & ocassional gaming). It is extremely difficult to just use the 47" to perform routine functions with my wireless keyboard & mouse.
 
There will be no tasks to run on this PC other then the Camera Feeds.
So as long as it is technically feasible, a surmountable inconvenience is in fact better so that the PC is not used for any other purpose in our absence.
If you are of the opinion that a Full HD Monitor is better, we shall go for a Full HD.
Its not a big deal.

1 More solution if possible.
What is the lowest cost solution where we can install a camera just behind the PC in the Security room to check if the Supervisor was in the Security room throughout the 24 hours or not or if he was sleeping at night or absent from duty for a long time.
This camera or the recording need not be of a high resolution.
The feed has to just come into the PC.
So basically no wiring is involved. We should have the option to just check the recording for any period of time we want in the software.
Any suggestions ?

Thanks for advising
 
shravank30 said:
There will be no tasks to run on this PC other then the Camera Feeds.
So as long as it is technically feasible, a surmountable inconvenience is in fact better so that the PC is not used for any other purpose in our absence.
Click to expand...

I am sure that there are ways that this can be done (although I am not versed with scripting/programming) - Your PC after booting would directly go to your CCTV-DVR software & nothing else [for this a script will have to be created & run after boot-up]
1] Administrator login/rights (full access to everything)
2] User Login: Security supervisor logs in and is directly directed to the CCTV-DVR software


Hope there are others on TE who can guide yo on this part


1 More solution if possible.
What is the lowest cost solution where we can install a camera just behind the PC in the Security room to check if the Supervisor was in the Security room throughout the 24 hours or not or if he was sleeping at night or absent from duty for a long time.
This camera or the recording need not be of a high resolution.
The feed has to just come into the PC.
So basically no wiring is involved. We should have the option to just check the recording for any period of time we want in the software.
Any suggestions ?
Click to expand...


Hmmm this is more tricky - as you will need a wireless camera (which cannot be switched off by the security guys) :eek: > but where will you direct this feed ?
Does the software provide a feature (password maybe) where some camera's are kept permanently ON ?
Click to expand...
 

I have confused you by saying no wiring required. What I meant was only a couple of meters wiring will be required whose cost is negligible

The recording of the security room camera will be done on the PC HDD and the camera will also be preferably directly attached to it through USB or PCI card.

Can a USB webcam serve this purpose?

How can it be programmed to re record fresh data over 30 days old data ?

Thanks for advising
 
@terence_fdes

Will the RAM play a major role in decoding the images in the PC?
Should we go for 16GB RAM or 8GB RAM is sufficient ?

Thanks for advising
 
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