Phase Wise PC upgrade

[ALPHA17]

No, I mean cores, and even AMD calls them that.
I'm aware they are not full featured cores, but I did not say 3 modules right?

1. 830 is still slower in 4KB block sizes.
2. If benchmarks were the ultimate factor for SSDs, we'd all be buying Sandforce drives.
The 830 firmware is still too new to prove its reliability.

Mind explaining that as it completely bounced me; only the AMD Bulldozer quip.

Here is something about Samsung's reliability -- AnandTech - The Samsung SSD 830 Review / Samsung 830 Series 128GB Solid State Drive Review :: TweakTown USA Edition

In the early days Samsung actually sold reference designs to companies like Corsair and OCZ. Its partners could then rebrand and resell the drives, which they did. Samsung was still learning the market and after being overshadowed by Indilinx in the performance segment, Samsung retreated. Returning last year to the consumer market Samsung had a new strategy in mind: go directly after the channel. Seeing no point in reselling its designs to third parties, Samsung made its SSD 470 available to both OEMs and consumers alike. OEMs were free to obscure the Samsung name but consumers were told upfront what they were getting. Samsung even spent a good amount on packaging for their drive just to develop its brand.

Although the 470 was a downright decent 3Gbps drive, it was competing in a world dominated by 6Gbps alternatives. Crucial's m4, Intel's SSD 510 and OCZ's Vertex 3 all offered better performance, at a similar price point. The only leg Samsung had to stand on was reliability, which believe it or not can sometimes take second place to performance depending on the target market. What Samsung needed was a faster drive that didn't sacrifice reliability and didn't move price points up. That's exactly what the Samsung SSD 830 is designed to do.

As we've already mentioned, the 830 is an evolution of the 470 design. It still employs a page-mapped architecture to deliver high random and sequential performance, but as a result requires quite a bit of on-board memory. Samsung has no qualms about storing user data in DRAM temporarily so it outfits the SSD 830 with a massive 256MB DDR2 cache. While this cache was spread over two chips in the 470, it is contained in a single package in the 830.

If you will not use 'BENCHMARK' as a rule of thumb whilst recommending what will you use?

@bookoon this is what I suggest; you can go it any which way you want [prices may not be accurate due to fluctuating $$ rates + lack of field trips by me] --

Intel Core i5 3550 ~13500/-
ASUS P8H77M-PRO ~9500/-
Corsair XMS3 OR G.Skill RIPJAWS 4GB x2 ~3500/-
nVidia GTX 660Ti ~?? OR HD 7870 2GB ~23500/-
Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB ~5500/-
Samsung 830 series 120GB ~?? OR Corsair Force GT 120GB ~9500/-
Corsair TX V2 650W ~5600/-
NZXT Gamma ~2800/- [better than the eLite 430 for airflow and wire-routing; lack of USB 3.0 front ports]
LOGITECH G400 ~1500/-
LOGITECH media keyboard ~450/-
BenQ E2420HD ~11900/- [a 24" monitor that comes packed with all signal-IN connectors apart from DISPLAY PORT]

If you want to over-clock, then swap these components --
Intel Core i5 3570k ~15500/-
ASUS P8Z77M-PRO ~11500/- OR ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ~9500/-
[rest all components same]

Hope this helps, Cheerio!!

 

[bookoon]

Phew!... let's not discuss budget anymore.. else I will get phased out myself...

ALPHA17.. i owe you a lot...still. one last (I hope ) thing..

i am going for the following three items as soon as I can.
1. Intel Core i5 3550
2. ASUS P8Z77M-PRO (mainly because it has four rear USB 3 ports)
3. Corsair XMS3 OR G.Skill RIPJAWS 4GB x2

As you can understand that i will be very much broke after this. So can I skip the Power supply and continue with the CM extreme i have currently --- CM extreme power plus 500W (RS500PCARA31)--? I will upgrade that when i put in the gfx card.

 

[ALPHA17]

As you can understand that i will be very much broke after this. So can I skip the Power supply and continue with the CM extreme i have currently --- CM extreme power plus 500W (RS500PCARA31)--? I will upgrade that when i put in the gfx card.

That will be fine Sire, just don't start loading the SMPS too much. Cheerio!!

P.S. -- keep calling in the questions, the issue is I might not be here for the next week. Hence, others will definitely help you. Happy RIG building.

 

[mrcool63]

the i5 3550 is overpriced. the i5 2500 will be better suited. Further i believe since you are in that budget the FX 8120 will be more suited for you than 2500K/3550. As you do video editing, more cores of FX will be useful, as compared to 2500k.
My suggestion is

FX 8120-11k
asus 990fx(several models)-9k
ati 7850-15k/6950 2gb-15k.(the 7870 is not necessary as the 7850 oc's like a beast and it will be more than enough.)
Seasonic s12ii 620 instead of corsair vx650 as they are almost same and further quality of vx650 is suspect(saw two people bring in their 650vx when i was rma'ing my ram. probably a coincidence )

 

[bookoon]

OMG... i am seesawing between AMD and Intel... will go all CrAzY!:crazy::crazy:

 

[Jarod]

Mind explaining that as it completely bounced me; only the AMD Bulldozer quip.

Here is something about Samsung's reliability -- AnandTech - The Samsung SSD 830 Review / Samsung 830 Series 128GB Solid State Drive Review :: TweakTown USA Edition

If you will not use 'BENCHMARK' as a rule of thumb whilst recommending what will you use?

A pair of AMD bulldozer cores form a module.
So a 6 core FX 6100 is a 3 module chip.
You brought up modules, so you must know this, right?

Reliability is more important for an SSD than just benchmark numbers.
Sandforce drives have been faster than the M4 for quite a while, yet its not the pick among seasoned techies. You know why right?
Then why would you recommend a Sandforce based Corsair Force GT?

I'm not saying the 830 is bad but it is a bit new. The M4 is tried and tested and the firmware is mature.
The Intel 320 was also an evolution of the legendary X25-M. But they still had the 8MB bug.
Its impossible for any reviewer to talk about long term reliability from a review over a few days. Anandtech and the others did not catch the 8MB bug or the Sandforce BSODs when they first tested the drives.
Moreover the 830 is 12K for the 128GB while the M4 is 8.5k, so the M4 is still a better deal.

Yet again you are recommending either the 830 or the Corsair Force GT but not the M4, so I get the feeling you aren't objectively assessing the M4, you just have an issue with people recommending something in opposition to you.

 

[terence_fdes]

I think budget will have to be increased if I want that upgrade at all!!!!:annoyed:

...

Think about the i-5 series (3570K) - This is the best & most economical of the Ivy-Bridge Series priced at 16.8K .... Do not opt for the non-K version (which lacks plenty of features that are embedded in the K series version)
Intel Core i5 3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

Best Gaming CPUs For The Money: May 2012 : Best Gaming CPUs For The Money, May Updates

The Top end 3770K is way too bloody expensive (Prime listed it at Rs25600/- a few day's back & now it's unavailable)

Couple this with a H77 motherboard
Asrock H77 Pro4-MVP Motherboard

http://www.primeabgb.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=4827&category_id=168&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

(I am aware that chosing a K series proc & a H77 mobo seems like a waste, however comparable Z77 mobo's with sufficient usb 3.0 ports cost's 4-5 grand more)

As an afterthought could @ALPHA17 @Gannu @Jarod or @chiragsthakur enlighten me about the advantages of an 120GB SSD vs a Seagate 7200.14 Sata 6 Gb/s - How much is the performance/speed increase ?

Thanks

 

[Jarod]

OMG... i am seesawing between AMD and Intel... will go all CrAzY!:crazy::crazy:

You can't go wrong with whatever you pick. Just choose based on your budget for your processor.

The AMD FX chips seem to be better at transcoding compared to Intel offerings at the same price points.
But on the flip side, the Intels are balanced across other tasks and offer better power consumption figures.

Still, if video transcoding is your prime purpose:
Upto 12K budget for processor, get the FX chips.
Beyond 12K, look at a midrange Ivy bridge chip like the 3550.
As Terence has pointed out, beyond a certain point it tapers off.. no point spending so much on the 2600K or 3770K.

enlighten me about the advantages of an 120GB SSD vs a Seagate 7200.14 Sata 6 Gb/s - How much is the performance/speed increase ?

The main advantage of an SSD is latency.
A typical HDD takes a few milliseconds to shift its read/write head across the disk platter when accessing different files.
An SSD doesn't have moving parts, so that process drops down to nanoseconds.

Of course, it depends on what you're doing with your disk.
If you're just copying over a single large file thats a couple of GBs, it wont be as impressive since even a 7200.14 hard disk can manage sustained transfer rates of 210 MB/s.

Where an SSD really shines is when its loading an OS or an App, and it has to access a number of small files.
4KB random read/write benchmarks are what amply demonstrate this latency advantage.
A typical HDD will probably be struggling at <1MB/s.
A typical SSD in contrast will easily do >50MB/s.
Thats a 50x advantage, at minimum.
Of course, real world speed increases will be more modest like 5x, unless you're heavily multi tasking or running a database server.

 

[bookoon]

Thank you, terence_fdes and Jarod.
The upgrade is getting frighteningly costlier than i expected ; so need to keep my head down and brood for a few days.:|
Pocket says FX and Mind says i5...

 

[ALPHA17]

A pair of AMD bulldozer cores form a module.
So a 6 core FX 6100 is a 3 module chip.
You brought up modules, so you must know this, right?

Reliability is more important for an SSD than just benchmark numbers.
Sandforce drives have been faster than the M4 for quite a while, yet its not the pick among seasoned techies. You know why right?
Then why would you recommend a Sandforce based Corsair Force GT?

I'm not saying the 830 is bad but it is a bit new. The M4 is tried and tested and the firmware is mature.
The Intel 320 was also an evolution of the legendary X25-M. But they still had the 8MB bug.
Its impossible for any reviewer to talk about long term reliability from a review over a few days. Anandtech and the others did not catch the 8MB bug or the Sandforce BSODs when they first tested the drives.
Moreover the 830 is 12K for the 128GB while the M4 is 8.5k, so the M4 is still a better deal.

Yet again you are recommending either the 830 or the Corsair Force GT but not the M4, so I get the feeling you aren't objectively assessing the M4, you just have an issue with people recommending something in opposition to you.

Hmmm... I knew that 6 cores + few modifications in the architecture = 3 modules. I still did not get what you meant by this --

The FX6100 should be better with 6 cores.

Are you implying that instead of undertaking the Bulldozer architecture, if AMD had stuck to a further extension of the K8 design, say K11 in this case; the final product would have outperformed the Bulldozer whilst being more efficient? OR is it something else?

To be honest I have never used SSD's personally, neither do I actively recommend them. Earlier I was pushing for the OCZ Agility series, next when I came to be aware of the Corsair offerings in the Indian market I started suggesting those because --

• Corsair has a solid after sales network in India.
• comparable performance;
• wider options available in the form of various sub families in the Corsair portfolio, NOVA series, FORCE series, FORCE GT et al;
• different people interpret the same benchmark differently and take varied inference on performance from same products.
• finally I am a bit annoyed with your last comment, I feel that you take me as a shallow person; I cannot change your outlook until I write something that might please you. So, Peace!!

Thanks for the heads up on the advantages offered by the Crucial M4 over comparative priced SSD's. Cheerio!!

 

[bookoon]

Hi Alpha17; thanks for writing in..again.

Got two more questions
1. MoBo - ASUS P8Z77M-PRO ~11500/- OR ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ~9500/- ...
The Asus one is now over 16K,Asus P8Z77-V PRO Intel Z77 Chipset Motherboard

--edit--
My apologies; i think i saw the wrong link. the Asus board is around 13K on ebay. Hope I got the correct one now
http://www.ebay.in/itm/ASUS-P8Z77-M...Domain_203&hash=item5d33f01701#ht_12576wt_928
--edit--
whereas the ASRock is around 10.5K. ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Motherboards

Which one to choose. Looking at the budget is ASRock OK?
Any other board with crossfire support and ample USB3.0 which is around 10K?

2. Processor - Now, i understand that either of the above boards are for OC. Although i have never tried OC, seems that i may have to learn it soon. In that case should i get an i52500k (since it is a k series and supposedly better featured)? the cost of i52500 is a shade less than i53550.
i5 3450 is Rs. 12225, i%3550 is Rs 13469 and i52500k is Rs12850.

aahh... I think these are more than two questions.

 

[ALPHA17]

Hi Alpha17; thanks for writing in..again.

The pleasure is all mine. To cut a long story short I was on leave and was thoroughly UN-plugged from the GRID. Felt good till it lasted; now I am back so to business.

Between the ASUS and ASRock motherboard I am biased towards ASUS; but if the budget is truant then the ASRock motherboard is the way to go. Although get the dealer on your good side as after sales can be a bug bear.

I doubt any motherboard based on the Z77 chipset can be bagged for anything less than ~10000/- [including taxes].

Processor I strongly urge try to get the Ivy-Bridge over Sandy-Bridge offerings because you are buying a brand new RIG it will be better that you get a new product than an older iteration.
What is the price of Core i5 3570k?

Hope this helps, Cheerio!!

 

[rite]

I would never go for a micro atx board unless there is strong reason why you need it or why it should be bought.

Why I don't like mATX:
1. Zero advantages.
2. Less space, less space for everything in your computer including no space for bigger fans, no space for longer graphic cards or multi gpu compared to a full ATX that is.
3. Difficult to assemble due to less space, compared to same specs with full ATX
4. Less features like less USB, less SATA ports etc.
5. Zero advantages over ATX.
So there are only negatives and no positives.

Besides, I would take an Asrock Extreme 6 Z77 over Asus Z77 Pro with the only exception being if I need onboard wifi which the Asrock doesn't have.
I would take an Asrock Extreme4 Z77 over Asus Z77 V if the Asus is more expensive, if they are priced same, then that is tough.

Another thing is Asus probably has worse support than Asrock due to Rashi.

If budget isn't a constraint for Z77, I would go for the Asus or Asrock top end, which ever has the features I need, whichever is cheaper or better for the generation.

If the Asrock top model was available the time I bought my board, and if it had WIFI, I would have gone for it over the Asus model most probably.

For Z77 Asrock is king. PERIOD.
For Z68 Asus was king. Asrock was close, but not the king.

But with Z77, Asrock is the new king. PERIOD.

I would take an Asrock Extreme 4 over the following boards unless some features you need are missing (price isn't a factor in this comparison):
MSI GD65 Z77
Gigabyte Z77 UD5H

With Asus Z77 V it is pretty comparable and tight, however, given the Asrock is much cheaper go blindly with it.

My only gripe about Asrock motherboards is that they lack onboard wifi and that is one thing I would rather spend 5-10k more if needed, but can't do without.

However, otherwise despite owning Asus, I say Asrock is better because that is the fact with Z77.

They overclock better, they perform a bit better. They have more features. They have better build quality. They even have better support in India.

the only issue could be availability. If you can sort that out, Asrock all the way.

 

[bookoon]

Thanks Alpha17 and rite.

What is the price of Core i5 3570k?

it is 17,000...:crybaby:..Buy Intel Core i5-3570K Processor 3.40 GHz in Mumbai India

Alpha17, if I may ask, what is your opinion on the point raised by rite on ATX/ mATX boards.
As I can see very clearly, the configuration I am gong for is slowly getting quite bigger than i ever thought... :yahoo:that means I might be looking for two GFX cards...CPU coolers et. al... :devil:

Dear rite,... budget is always a concern... but i was feeling so trapped, i had let it go. My Budget for the whole PC is now become (seems to be) only for CPU/Mobo/ RAM and cabinet. I will get the rest of the stuff when i get enough dough...:juggle:
Thanks for bringing up the topic of atx/matx

 

[ALPHA17]

What is your opinion on the point raised by rite on ATX/ mATX boards.

Pricing of the Core i5 3570k is atrocious.

Well I do not have a bias for mATX OR full ATX motherboards, with current generation of Intel offerings in the market I see very few reasons as to why a mATX motherboard cannot be picked up.

In-fact here are a few salient points [from point of view of Cougar point, Panther point chipsets] --

• thanks to elimination of a South-Bridge, a lot more space is free;
• compact build with capability to go toe-to-toe with full ATX offerings;
• slightly cheaper compared to their more expansive full-ATX brethren;
• chipset used is same so stock performance is also equal across boards; in over-clocking it really is dependent on how the user treats his components rather than just components themselves.

negatives are --

• depending on price of the component, a mATX motherboard can have pretty horrible component layout, at ~13000/- I think this gets nullified with angled SATA connectors, properly spaced components et al;
• lack of elaborate passive cooling solutions; again not a decisive factor for me;
• build quality can be so-so in cases;
• lack of exclusive features.

Hope this answers your query bookoon, Cheerio!!

 

[bookoon]

Ok the prices are as follows
Asrock Z77 Extreme6 is priced at Rs 13500, similar to Asus P8Z77M-PRO
Buy Asrock Z77 Extreme6 Motherboard in Mumbai India

---------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

Thanks Alpha17..

So it seems i am close to the choice of Processor and Mobo...phew!!..
Now i will need your help with the rest of the two things left for this trip (to the computer hardware shop)...

1. RAM... does OC need any special RAM? (btw, pl help with some basic literature on OC.. let me give it a try to learn this...instead of keeping on asking... ).
2. Cabinet... You had advised on Nzxt Gamma due to good air flows. Can you look into USB 3.0 ones please, with adequate air flow?

Thanks a lot.
I think now I am looking at 40k (or slightly lesser...not more.. ..) for processor/ mobo/ ram and cabinet...

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------

Here is a comparison between ASRock Extreme6 and Extreme4 Z77 boards.
http://www.asrock.com/mb/compare.asp?SelectedModel=Z77%20Extreme6&SelectedModel=Z77%20Extreme4&

Pl educate me on the differences, folks .

The link is not working, nor could I attach the file since it is ~180KB..which is more than permissible limit..:annoyed:.

 

[rite]

Assuming that I am getting the boards for free:

I would get an Asrock Extreme 4 Z77 over any mATX board in the market except Maximus

Similarly, any Asrock Extreme6 mobo over Asus Z77 V (vanilla). Pro will be competition though. However, the Pro is no longer much competition if it isn't the same price.

Simply put, let us say the Asus Z77 Pro is 13k (it is 16-17k tho) and Extreme 6 is 13k, then they are about equal, if at all the Asrock is better. So it is idiotic to spend more over Asus unless money isn't a factor.

Asrock wins hands down.

Show me one review anywhere where mATX boards from Asus even stand up against Asrock full ATX boards, except for Maximus. Asrock isn't only cheaper, even if it was more expensive I would still go for Asrock

 

[ALPHA17]

1. RAM... does OC need any special RAM? (btw, pl help with some basic literature on OC.. let me give it a try to learn this...instead of keeping on asking... ).
2. Cabinet... You had advised on Nzxt Gamma due to good air flows. Can you look into USB 3.0 ones please, with adequate air flow?

For over-clocking their is no need of special RAM modules because over-clocking memory does not yield outstanding results; unlike over-clocking the processor OR graphics card will in their respective fields. Go for --

• G.Skill RIPJAWS OR
• Corsair Vengeance

Apart from this for cooling the processor, go for the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO ~2400/-.
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler Review - X-bit labs / Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo Heatsink Review - FrostyTech.com.

For a good cabinet with USB 3.0 headers and decent airflow you can look at the Cooler Master eLite 431 OR equivalent. Although I would still recommend that you go for the NZXT Gamma over all other cabinets in the sub ~3500/- price range.

For articles outlining the basics of over-clocking you can head here -- Sandy / Ivy Bridge ? Complete Overclocking Guide | *ASRock Edition* / Ivy Bridge Overclocking Guide (Extreme LN2 Section Guide Included) - Overclockers Forums

The modus operandi of over-clocking the Sandy-Bridge chip and Ivy-Bridge chip are pretty much the same. Hence, refer to whichever guide is available and easier to understand. The difference lies in the amount of cooling you have on tap [components care-taking] and how far are you willing to push parameters such as the voltages.

Hope this helps, Cheerio!!

 

[rite]

Corsair doesn't oc well. G Skill does. Just get the quality 1600 CAS9 G Skill Ripjaws if buying from India.

 

[Jarod]

Hmmm... I knew that 6 cores + few modifications in the architecture = 3 modules. I still did not get what you meant by this --
The FX6100 should be better with 6 cores.

Are you implying that instead of undertaking the Bulldozer architecture, if AMD had stuck to a further extension of the K8 design, say K11 in this case; the final product would have outperformed the Bulldozer whilst being more efficient? OR is it something else?

No nothing that complicated.
OP was asking how the FX6100 compared to the FX4100.