PC Peripherals RAM decision DAMN decision..

T

TheMask

Skilled
I've been searching, seeking advice, reading reviews and I still cant make up my mind. I need some good RAM (512x2) which can run at high frequency - in tha range of 250~275MHz and preferably at tight timings. OCZ Gold VX fits the bill perfectly but I cant even consider that. For starters my mobo (A8N-E) gives me Vdimm options upto 3V only. Not beyond that. Then I cant get OCZ DDR Booster as it is not compatible with my mobo. That alone leaves me with a choice of TCCDs. TCCDs do high on MHz but they dont hold tight timings at higher overclocks. One good thing about TCCDs is they dont need insane voltages to keep them running at higher frequency.

So I have shortlisted a few from a huge list. Help me choose which would be the best option. Below each choice, i have made a small note about why i considered them.

GeIL Ultra 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 500 (PC 4000) 2.5-4-4-7 / 2.6-3.1V - US$137.00

(The cheapest DDR500 memory, coz this is the least speed rating i want)

gigaram 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 500 (PC 4000) 2.5-3-3-6 / 2.5V - US$146.00

(look at the timings n the required voltage!!)

gigaram 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 533 (PC 4200) 2.5-4-4-7 / 2.5V - US$157.00

(assured OC of 16MHz over the previous one)

OCZ 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) 2-2-2-8 / upto 3.2V - US$175.00

(Gold VX with BH-5 chips)

OCZ EL Platinum Revision 2 1GB (2 x 512MB) (PC3200) 2-2-2-5 / 2.75V - US$188.00

(cheapest among the uber OCing TCCD, chances of hitting 300+ is very high)

GeIL Ultra 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 550 (PC 4400) 3-4-4-8 / 2.6-3.1V - US$205.00

(the cheapest DDR550 memory, 275MHZ 1:1 is groovy..)

CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 550 (PC 4400) 2.5-4-4-8 / 2.75V - US$225.00

(the cheapest DDR550 with CL2.5)

OCZ 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 500 (PC 4000) 2-2-2-8 / 3.3V - US$260.0

(the same Gold VX BH-5 as before, except with this u have the assurance of running it at DDR500 at 2-2-2-8 )

G.SKILL LA 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) 2-2-2-5 / 2.65-2.85V - US$290.00

(the best of TCCD.. does 2-2-2-5 at DDR400 and 3-4-4-8 at DDR600!! but is this really worth it?)

Lets not consider my budget for the sake of good discussion. so do consider the above memory and help me decide which wud be the best and which wud be the best bang for the buck. All prices are from newegg. SO if u find better prices elsewhere, do mention that too. All your comments/opinions/suggestions/criticism are most welcome. Thank you!
 
gigaram also have TCCD 512x2 for $120 these run at 2-2-2-5 @ 2.5V
I am pretty sure that these can do DDR 500 or better with a little relaxed timings.

If you want to spend $200 above also look at PDP with XBLK 512x2 about $220. These are rated for 400-600mhz I think.
 
The main reason i am not considering DDR400 RAM is b'coz how well they OC is not assured all the time. They might OC upto 230MHz 2-2-2-5 n not anymore no matter how much u relax their timings.. that is why i dont want to take any chances.. tnx for the advice though.. if i think of getting something else from US, then i'll cut down my budget on RAM n get the ones u've suggested :D

EDIT:

BTW, they cost $131 on newegg and are presently out of stock..
 
Our tests show that improving RAM latency only makes a small difference in the performance of modern high-end PCs. The amount of improvement varies greatly depending on the application you're running, but it's safe to generally characterize the improvement by saying that, compared with CAS 3.0 RAM, CAS 2.5 will give you a 1% to 2% speed boost, and CAS 2.0 will give you 2% to 4%. Those are definitely small numbers, to be sure. System manufacturers often fight with their competitors over performance variances that small, though, so it shouldn't be viewed as insignificant. In fact, it's not uncommon for a new high-end CPU to be released that's just a couple hundred MHz faster than the previous best, giving you a performance advantage of 5% or less.
The real question is this: Is the marginal speed improvement of low-latency RAM worth its higher price? For most users, the answer is no. In a broad survey of online prices, we found that CAS 2.5 RAM costs about 30% more than CAS 3.0. If you're building a system with 1GB of RAM, you'll pay an additional $60 more for only one or two percentage points. You're much better off spending that money on a slightly better video card or buying a good sound card instead of relying on integrated audio. Heck, even a really good mouse would probably be a better investment toward making your computing time more enjoyable.
Click to expand...

Have a Read into this Once.......thnk u already must hav thou ;)

Does Ram Latency Matter

TheMask said:
All your comments/opinions/suggestions/criticism are most welcome. Thank you!
Click to expand...

the last time u asked for long time bak......whn is the ram coming dude......

OT:me need ram too.....can i fill in nd v can split the sipping cost nd stuff :huh:
 
I think the RAM Latency argument while dismissable before is very valid in today's Athlon64 systems, owing to the on-die memory controller which thrives in low-latency conditions, so yes latency is very important :)
 
@Crazy
U shud see the "How v Tested " in tht article.........they hav used a A64 sytem...... :cool2:

nd yes thr will be diff in performance's but by 5% or so.....almost negligible.....but there ;)
 
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Aces, I have looked.. but again their OCability is not assuring.. some OC high some dont.. and for the ones that do OC high my mobo wont provide the juice :D
 
TheMask said:
The main reason i am not considering DDR400 RAM is b'coz how well they OC is not assured all the time. They might OC upto 230MHz 2-2-2-5 n not anymore no matter how much u relax their timings.. that is why i dont want to take any chances.. tnx for the advice though.. if i think of getting something else from US, then i'll cut down my budget on RAM n get the ones u've suggested :D

EDIT:
BTW, they cost $131 on newegg and are presently out of stock..
Click to expand...

I am sure I saw these for 120 at another place. I try and find out where.
You are not looking at PDP with xblk? :huh:
 
Stalkersoftware said:
You are not looking at PDP with xblk? :huh:
Click to expand...



Patriot 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) Model PDC1G3200+XBLK - Retail

$223.00

But then again I want something with assured high clocks.. Like the Gskill LA series, the manufacturer assures 2-2-2-5 at DDR400 n DDR600 at 3-4-4-8..

EDIT:

Hey PDP does assure higher clocks too.. the XBLK listed on their site says DDR400 @ 2-2-2-5 and DDR533 @ 3-4-4-8. Then again this-gigaram 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 533 (PC 4200) 2.5-4-4-7 / 2.5V - US$157.00 is a much better deal..
 
Why not the OCZ EL Plat Rev 2 Masky ? The price seems to be dropping like crazy... currently selling for ~185 bucks at The Egg:

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Prod...890&ATT=Memory+System+Memory&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me

OK ! This is just hearsay...apparently the TCCD chip used in this RAM is actually rated 4ns...but don't have the link offhand...

So, getting to 250MHz should be easy; and getting to 275MHz is considered fairly routine...

PDP XBLK (Bottle has this ?) also appears good but is currently priced higher; and so are the G.Skill ones.

Edit: Forgot to add that I personally contacted an OCZ rep and had it confirmed that even the currently cheaply selling EL Plat Rev 2 @newegg are TCCD.
 
TheMask said:
G.SKILL LA 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) 2-2-2-5 / 2.65-2.85V - US$290.00
(the best of TCCD.. does 2-2-2-5 at DDR400 and 3-4-4-8 at DDR600!! but is this really worth it?)
Click to expand...

Definately not worth it whn u can get These at just 9$'s more which run by 25mhz higher, better timings than the above nd at lower vdimm which ur lookin at in the 1st place....

or if cant add more money thn these for bout 30$'s less nd better timings nd within limit for ur board's vdimm

BTW : is gigaram a gud company...me not heard of it bfore much :ashamed: ??? :huh:
but looks good
 
JediMaster said:
Edit: Forgot to add that I personally contacted an OCZ rep and had it confirmed that even the currently cheaply selling EL Plat Rev 2 @newegg are TCCD.
Click to expand...

I did too.. ;)

Hello Abu,

I would not recommend the PC3200 Gold VX memory for your motherboard. Unless you have 3.2v DDR available, it does not run well. The OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev 2 (must be Rev 2), based on TCCD will do 2-2-2-8 timings at 200-210mhz and overclock very well. We also have PC4800 memory based on TCCD that will do 300mhz if your boards is capable. I am not sure how well the ASUS is overclocking now. I think the PC3200 Paltinum Rev 2 might be best for you.

Another option is the 3200 Gold (not VX) that uses Winbond chips that does 2-2-2-8 timings at 2.8v. With 3.0v you should be able to overclock some also. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_el_ddr_pc_3200_dual_channel_gold

I hope this helps.



Thank you for inquiring,

Andy Talamantez

Online Media Coordinator

OCZ Technology, USA

www.ocztechnology.com

www.ocz.com
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Rockyme2002 said:
Definately not worth it whn u can get These at just 9$'s more which run by 25mhz higher, better timings than the above nd at lower vdimm which ur lookin at in the 1st place....
or if cant add more money thn these for bout 30$'s less nd better timings nd within limit for ur board's vdimm
Click to expand...

Both look very promising.. I knew about the first one, but $300 is way too much for me.. but i hadnt noticed the 2nd one u have suggested.. will check it out.. it looks nice too :D
Rockyme2002 said:
BTW : is gigaram a gud company...me not heard of it bfore much :ashamed: ??? :huh:

but looks good
Click to expand...

I have no idea, but it sure is cheap
 
@Masky

Muhahaha ! so you contacted Andy ! And I was right about his take on EL Plat Rev 2 !

Great (/screwed up) minds think alike :rofl:

Here's Andy's reply to my query about newegg!

Hi, yes the PC3200 EL Platinum Rev 2 is TCCD, always. Newegg is fine.
They get fresh stock all the time. They return all "defective" memory to
OCZ, so they really don't have old stock. I prefer Newegg myself.

This memory is the best in your price range and TCCD is beat for this
board.

I always recommend this memory first, regardless of price.

Thanks!

Andy Talamantez
Online Media Coordinator
OCZ Technology, Inc.
www.ocz.com
Click to expand...

Ok ! Here's the 4ns rating that I referred to earlier:

My Disclaimer: Just mentioned the EL Plat Rev 2 as one that deserves careful scrutiny as a real Value option for you now - considering the Winnie mem controller and the ASUS mobo's vdimm and vcore limitations (??). But you are the better judge of things ... :)

from insanetek:
http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=oczplatpc3200

The Platinum PC3200 Rev2 employs Samsung TCCD F die ICs that are rated at 4ns, or 250MHZ. The ICs used in PC3200 modules are underclocked, but running at this lower speed allows them to run at tight timings of 2-2-2-5. OCZ has paired the Samsung ICs with a Brainpower PCB, which is sometimes superior to JEDEC reference PCB in overclocking. The Brainpower PCB is also shorter than the JEDEC PCB.
....
Overclocking Results:

* 200HTT 2.0-2-2-5
* 218HTT 2.0-2-2-5
* 250HTT 2.5-3-3-5
* 275HTT 2.5-3-3-7
Click to expand...

There are a couple of recent ones from AnandTech - one for Gold VX and another for PDP XBLK - which also give you a pretty good illustration of the stat-of-the-art.

Keep your comments coming....
 
hey Mask,
Considering the Board you have, going for BH-5 or for that matter UTT,doesnt make much sense to me as your board gives only 3.0V Vdimm

So amongst the given choices,i would recommend the following,

1] G.SKILL LA 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) 2-2-2-5 / 2.65-2.85V - US$290.00
(the best of TCCD.. does 2-2-2-5 at DDR400 and 3-4-4-8 at DDR600!! but is this really worth it?)

2] OCZ EL Platinum Revision 2 1GB (2 x 512MB) (PC3200) 2-2-2-5 / 2.75V - US$188.00
(cheapest among the uber OCing TCCD, chances of hitting 300+ is very high)

And this one,
3] Patriot 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) Model PDC1G3200+XBLK - Retail

$223.00

I guess these will be best suited for your setup.
I hope this helps you. ;)
 
Gskill is outta the window.. too expensive for me :D.. looks like OCZ Rev 2 it is for me.. ;).. i am leaning toward it now.. but u never know.. my brain thinking frequency changes quite fast u know..
 
HeHe, my pleasure to get the info since I find this research interesting enuff (aka selfish motive, TBH) - about the e-mail I sent you I find that there is no back-up copy at TE !

+1 for Darky's list of RAMs - great set of choices ranging from the currently "cheap" to the most expensive. Concur completely with his selections.

I think it's going to be tough deciding between PDP and EL Plat Rev 2 for one outstanding reason. And that is, the XBLK is rated officially by PDP themselves to be a high speed RAM - as you mentioned earlier. The price difference w.r.t ELPER2 though, IMHO, is a li'l too significant to be ignored currently. And damn :devil: ! isn't this a tough call ?!?

And just in case, you need some more choices to be able to hit guaranteed high speeds 1:1 - of course, the prices will also be higher - the following are also confirmed TCCDs in OCZ's Platinum series: PC 3700, PC 4200, PC 4800, PC 5000.

There are also some confirmed TCCD G.Skills in the ~$240 range.

Actually, I have this fleeting sense of utter abandon in giving the gigarams a shot - the price is really tempting. But yeah may be risky unless there is some kinda review to backup.

One reason to go ELPER2 and not PDP ? Well, you always have Bottle to rob as a back up :eek:hyeah:
 
Ok ! Masky suggested that I post here the e-mail that I had sent him earlier - prolly might have some more useful info for some people.

Here it is below:

Yo Masky:

What happened ?

Take a look at these TCCD GSkills PC4400 (2.5-4-4-8 ):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231002

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231004

There is an LB and an LD priced about the same. They supposedly oc to

about ~300MHz but mostly under.

This is some indicative oc from XS:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...?t=50010&page=1

with the snippet below:

SAMSUNG TCCD RAM CLASSIFICATION based on review, comments, posts, etc. (it is ABSOLUTELY indicative and of course it is not scientific because a lot depends on chip luck):

* +~300 Mhz:

 G.SKILL PC4800(DDR600 1T) (2.5-4-4-8 1T), PC3200 (2-2-2-5), (F1-3200DSU2-512FF/1GBFF) ~ Brainpower PCB

^ "Puni's Choice" (best TCCD in in the market, agile and powerful, "300Mhz" are past, now 1T certified)

G.SKILL PC4800(DDR600) (2.5-4-4-8 2T | 3-4-4-8 1T), PC3200 (2-2-2-5) (F1-3200DSU2-512LA/1GBLA) ~ Brainpower PCB

G.SKILL PC4400(DDR550) (2.5-3-3-7), PC3200 (2-2-2-5) 512M Kit (F1-3200DSU2-512LE/1GBLE) ~ Brainpower PCB

OCZ EL PC4800 Platinum Edition (2,5-4-4-10 1T/2T @2,85V) --chip--> Samsung TCCD (new production) ~ Brainpower PCB

OCZ EL DDR PC3200 Platinum Edition rev2 (2-2-2-5) ~ Brainpower PCB

GeIL Ultra-X PC3200\PC4000\PC4400 (2-2-2-5\2,5-3-3-5\2,5-4-4-7 1T) ~ Brainpower PCB

Team Group ASTAK DDR600 PC4800 (3-4-4-8 ) --chip--> Samsung TCCD ~ Brainpower PCB 808

Mushkin PC4400 (2,5-4-4) --chip--> Samsung TCCD (rev. F) ~ Brainpower PCB

New Centon Advanced DDR ~ Brainpower PCB



A-Data PC4800/PC4500 Vitesta DDR600/DDR566 - Modified JEDEC PCB



* ~-300 Mhz:

G.SKILL PC4400(DDR550) (2.5-4-4-8 ), PC3200 (2-2-2-5) 1GB Kit (F1-3200DSU2-512LC/1GBLC) ~ Brainpower PCB

Corsair XMS-PC4400C25 (2.5-4-4-8-1T) --chip--> Samsung TCCD ~ Brainpower PCB

Corsair XMS-PC3200XL Rev1.2/XLPT (2-2-2-5-1T) ~ Brainpower PCB

Corsair XMS-PC3200XL Rev1.1 (2-2-2-5-1T)
G.SKILL PC4400(DDR550) (2.5-4-4-8 ), PC3200 (2-3-3-6) (F1-3200DSU2-512LD/1GBLD) ~ Brainpower PCB

Mushkin PC3700 (2,5-4-3) --chip--> Samsung TCCD (rev. F)

PQI Turbo Memory DC PC4000 (2,5-3-3-7) --chip--> Samsung TCCD ~ Brainpower PCB

Samsung PC4000

PQI Turbo Memory DC PC3200 (2-2-2-5) ~ Brainpower PCB

Patriot PDC5123200+XBLK\PDC1G3200+XBLK (2-2-2-5) ~ Brainpower PCB

Corsair XMS-PC3200C2 Rev4.1 (2-3-3-6-1T)



OC-WearDDR PC3200 - DDR560 CL 3-4-4-8 @ 2,8V

* -300 Mhz:

Mushkin PC3200 Level II V2 (2-2-2)

TwisterPro PC3200/DDR400 (2-2-2-5)

HyperX PC 3200ULK2 (2-2-2-5-1T) (KHX 3200ULK2)

Apacer PC4000

Centon Advanced DDR
Click to expand...

At the present time, w.r.t TCCD, the following look appealing:

1. EL Plat Rev 2 PC3200 ~$185

2. PQI Turbo PC3200 ~$220

3. PDP XBLK PC3200-~PC4200 ~$220

4. GSkill LC & LD ~$235

Actually, I'm tempted to examine this gigaram/TCCD - and also Centon/TCCD. Problem is that OCZ support is outstanding - they might even swap RAM if you aren't happy with the OC-ing - though for us it may not be an appealing alternative.

The best high speed RAM supposedly is A-Data Vitesta DDR600 - but I don't think it's available in the US anywhere - its available in the UK (pc-memory, uk, or somethin').

There are a few things that one need to watch out for with High Speed RAM though (but all this is based on second-hand experience - so take them with a big grain of salt):

1. The timings at stock speeds - the specs usually give the timings at high speed - with lowered timings at stock speed the system may refuse to boot.

2. Whether specified timings and MHz at high speed are at 1T or 2T

Let me know how it goes...Might prolly pick a pair up myself soon :)

PS: Masky seems to have researched the current high quality RAM situation very well. I suggest that his first post in this thread, if not the entire one, is worth a sticky - at least one that is temporary since the RAM situ is so volatile or a regularly updated permanent one :) .

Edit: split the newegg links !
 
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