Samsung caught faking Zoom Photos of the moon

This isn't just with moon photos, and this is not fake. This is just lazy journalism, with no investigation of its own and using a random person's claim on reddit as gospel. This post processing happens with every photo taken in auto mode, and it is just the AI and algorithms doing their work. It is pretty impressive how far phone cameras have come in the last 5 years - so much so, that I prefer my S22 Ultra over my Fujifilm X-T20 because it is simply that good. Specifically, I don't have to stack photos or take multiple photos with or edit a photo to get close to my ideal result; the phone just does all of that for me on auto mode itself. I also have GCam and there is simply no need for my Fujifilm X-T20 except for portrait photoshoots and non-daily stuff.
 
I think this isn't the first time Samsung has been accused of doing such things. Many companies did similar things and got caught. I remember even Apple, Nokia got accused.

Phones have evolved so much that most people now prefer taking pictures with phones instead of a traditional camera. The so called "AI" processing does so much work and it's impressive. But the marketing they do for the same is not on same level.

But still, smartphone cameras cannot yet beat photography from a dslr. It's obvious when you start zooming. There is a learning curve, skill and patience are required, but if you need high quality photos, nothing beats dslrs. But convenience and ease of use means, phones are best. Imagine taking same pictures of moon with dslr, you need a telephoto lens and a different budget, but the end result is greater.
 
Stronk said:
This isn't just with moon photos, and this is not fake. This is just lazy journalism, with no investigation of its own and using a random person's claim on reddit as gospel. This post processing happens with every photo taken in auto mode, and it is just the AI and algorithms doing their work. It is pretty impressive how far phone cameras have come in the last 5 years - so much so, that I prefer my S22 Ultra over my Fujifilm X-T20 because it is simply that good. Specifically, I don't have to stack photos or take multiple photos with or edit a photo to get close to my ideal result; the phone just does all of that for me on auto mode itself. I also have GCam and there is simply no need for my Fujifilm X-T20 except for portrait photoshoots and non-daily stuff.
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That's where you're wrong. It's not using AI to simply post process those pics, it's generating data where there was none.
Look at some other posts - people have captured images of images of the moon (from laptop screens etc in low res), and Samsung has generated new data to show craters etc when none were visible in the original pics.
In essence, they are replacing parts of the image or the image itself to look sharper.
As long as you're happy with it, good. But it's not photography. Call it an AI generated image of the moon, and all's good.
 
These were clicked with S23 Ultra a week ago while sitting in a car... So these are fake...lol. Frankly speaking those who want to crib will crib even if these were clicked by a 500k DSLR 20230309_213523.jpg20230309_213515.jpg
 
This is not the first time. Huawei was caught doing the same with their P30 a few years ago.

It would be interesting to see if the same can be achieved by turning off location services and the internet.
 
alekhkhanna said:
That's where you're wrong. It's not using AI to simply post process those pics, it's generating data where there was none.
Look at some other posts - people have captured images of images of the moon (from laptop screens etc in low res), and Samsung has generated new data to show craters etc when none were visible in the original pics.
In essence, they are replacing parts of the image or the image itself to look sharper.
As long as you're happy with it, good. But it's not photography. Call it an AI generated image of the moon, and all's good.
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I heard even similar things happen in Pixel phones, not sure though.

Based on this technology, someday they will come up with a feature like, take a photo in your own yard and the "AI" will replace all the parts so that you took the picture near Taj Mahal or something. Definitely fun.
 
You guys are way behind the curve on what's happening in AI.

Phones have been doing AI photography from some time now. They do insert details that didn't even there. Pixel started it and everyone praised it. Eventually everybody got onboard. It's how phones surpassed DSLRs for the most tasks. Take example of pixel 5. The mobile released in 2020 but the photo sensor in it was from 2012 and only 12mp. Still it takes really great photos. The sensor doesn't have enough MPs to capture very minute details like grass. But Google cam knows what grass is supposed to look like and it can redraw the details making image look crystal clear.

alekhkhanna said:
That's where you're wrong. It's not using AI to simply post process those pics, it's generating data where there was none.
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Yup that's AI mate. You are probably confusing AI with old-school superscaling. AI works like a human brain. It knows what moon supposed to look like so it can "imagine" the missing details.

Forget AI in samsung phone. This everyday research sample in AI will blow your lids.

 
That's How AI works....it just keeps on using the new data to make further predictions and trying to implement that whenever new pics are taken....eventually it depends on how and what data has been fed to AI for training and it will give results accordingly
 
No words when phones are hitting 100mp mark, Cant comment on the news but sometimes phones does captures insanely awesome pics in fact way better than any high-end phone or prof. camera.
 
lockhrt999 said:
Take example of pixel 5. The mobile released in 2020 but the photo sensor in it was from 2012 and only 12mp. Still it takes really great photos. The sensor doesn't have enough MPs to capture very minute details like grass. But Google cam knows what grass is supposed to look like and it can redraw the details making image look crystal clear.
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Oversharpening and manipulation are not same. Pixels over sharpen to a rather alarming degree, they don't create data which aren't there. AI is never about manipulation. Not that I am aware of anyhow. Maybe different definition of AI in Samsung's dictionary.
If what Alekh said is true then it's bloody hilarious, and disgusting.
 
Ssreek said:
I heard even similar things happen in Pixel phones, not sure though.

Based on this technology, someday they will come up with a feature like, take a photo in your own yard and the "AI" will replace all the parts so that you took the picture near Taj Mahal or something. Definitely fun.
Click to expand...
lockhrt999 said:
You guys are way behind the curve on what's happening in AI.

Phones have been doing AI photography from some time now. They do insert details that didn't even there. Pixel started it and everyone praised it. Eventually everybody got onboard. It's how phones surpassed DSLRs for the most tasks. Take example of pixel 5. The mobile released in 2020 but the photo sensor in it was from 2012 and only 12mp. Still it takes really great photos. The sensor doesn't have enough MPs to capture very minute details like grass. But Google cam knows what grass is supposed to look like and it can redraw the details making image look crystal clear.


Yup that's AI mate. You are probably confusing AI with old-school superscaling. AI works like a human brain. It knows what moon supposed to look like so it can "imagine" the missing details.

Forget AI in samsung phone. This everyday research sample in AI will blow your lids.

Click to expand...

There's a difference between sharpening, overshapening, scaling etc vs generating new data when no information of that data exists.
In your above example, if the pic shows there's grass, and Google's AI uses it to generate better sharpened photos of the same grass blade, it's acceptable as new information is being added/superimposed on based on clicked photograph info.
Samsung is adding craters to areas where the pic has no craters, but the moon has craters. It is not basing it's AI improvements on the clicked photo, but rather superimposing preclicked photos of the moon on the photo you've taken. That's cheating.
 
Well, I don't know what else to tell you guys. But that's how AI works. Camera has library (model) generated using machine learning. It already knows what moon is or grass or mountain, trees, flowers etc. We all have been seeing computation photography from some time. Difference? Pixel is very subtle and in this case samsung isn't. I'm not saying what samsung is correct or wrong. I'm not taking anyone's side. 99% people want their photos to look nice and they don't care how photos are made.

One perspective.
 
From the Verge article:
The generous interpretation is that Samsung’s process captures blurry details in the original photograph and then upscales them using AI. This is an established technique that has its problems (see: Xerox copiers altering numbers when upscaling fuzzy originals), and I don’t think it would make the resulting photograph fake. But as the Reddit tests show, Samsung’s process is more intrusive than this: it doesn’t just improve the sharpness of blurry details — it creates them. It’s at this point that I think most people would agree the resulting image is, for better or worse, fake.
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Upscaling using AI is what most digital cameras do these days. But in Samsung's case, it seems they are creating details where there are none. That's why it's being called out.
 
lockhrt999 said:
Well, I don't know what else to tell you guys. But that's how AI works. Camera has library (model) generated using machine learning. It already knows what moon is or grass or mountain, trees, flowers etc. We all have been seeing computation photography from some time. Difference? Pixel is very subtle and in this case samsung isn't. I'm not saying what samsung is correct or wrong. I'm not taking anyone's side. 99% people want their photos to look nice and they don't care how photos are made.

One perspective.
Click to expand...

Computational photography takes what the sensor sees, and enhances it for you.
What Samsung is doing is taking a photo, comparing it to a similar photo bank, and adding extra leaves, trees, hills when there were none in the original pic because AI.
 
alekhkhanna said:
Samsung is adding craters to areas where the pic has no craters, but the moon has craters. It is not basing it's AI improvements on the clicked photo, but rather superimposing preclicked photos of the moon on the photo you've taken. That's cheating.
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lockhrt999 said:
99% people want their photos to look nice and they don't care how photos are made.
Click to expand...

I think an avg user won't care about all these things and will simply say their smartphone takes better pictures than a pro-grade dslr.
Maybe this is whom companies are mostly targeting. If this method of "AI" appeals to most people then they will continue doing so.
 
This is about S20 Ultra

Attached is what I did with Galaxy K zoom back in Sept 2014 - 2015. When the moon was less bright and lower or closer to the horizon the shadows worked to get the best details. like that second one in Oct 2014.

Higher up in the sky and bright was not so great for details. No depth can be seen. Just looks flat.

Those were the days when the phone market was hot and you knew you had the biggest gun that could blow away the competition :woot:
 

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Ssreek said:
I think an avg user won't care about all these things and will simply say their smartphone takes better pictures than a pro-grade dslr.
Maybe this is whom companies are mostly targeting. If this method of "AI" appeals to most people then they will continue doing so.
Click to expand...
Just for pondering:

• I don't think this has ever been done (at least not from any reputed company anyway, what hawai or some random china company does/did is irrelevant). Bringing AI into this is comically misleading.
• Most people preferring this behaviour would be the Gen Z I hope. If not, they are clueless about photography. Drawing board anyone? Lol.

In any case, if this indeed continues, then RIP photography as we have always known it.
 
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