Several Linux Kernel Driver Maintainers Removed Due To Their Association To Russia

Not labelled as woke, but other exploitive methods as unilateral entries without overall positive consensus which hindered long-term progress. Rust guys went and asked existing developers working on c / c++ to learn Rust. And like insufferable petulant children threw toys away and left when they found it does not work that way.
Linus knows his time is nearing and probably is waiting for some huge global award or something, he definitely deserve it, so plays coy.
 
Torvalds… essentially agreed with the Rust-minded developer complaints, albeit from a much greater remove.

"I was expecting [Rust] updates to be faster, but part of the problem is that old-time kernel developers are used to C and don't know Rust," Torvalds said. "They're not exactly excited about having to learn a new language that is, in some respects, very different. So there's been some pushback on Rust." Torvalds added, however, that "another reason has been the Rust infrastructure itself has not been super stable."

arstechnica.com

Rust in Linux lead retires rather than deal with more “nontechnical nonsense”

How long can the C languages maintain their primacy in the kernel?
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
TEUser2K1 said:
Torvalds… essentially agreed with the Rust-minded developer complaints, albeit from a much greater remove.

"I was expecting [Rust] updates to be faster, but part of the problem is that old-time kernel developers are used to C and don't know Rust," Torvalds said. "They're not exactly excited about having to learn a new language that is, in some respects, very different. So there's been some pushback on Rust." Torvalds added, however, that "another reason has been the Rust infrastructure itself has not been super stable."

arstechnica.com

Rust in Linux lead retires rather than deal with more “nontechnical nonsense”

How long can the C languages maintain their primacy in the kernel?
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
Click to expand...
One of the rust maintainers stepped down this August in frustration (note: he worked for Microsoft)
[Linux Kernel Mailing List]

And if anyone follows the mailing list, sometimes Rust guys do try to force stuff upstream and they want things now. If they want to work that way, they should move to other organizations and/or projects.

Ted T'so is right, it is not gonna happen the way they want.

Rust for filesystems [LWN.net]

lwn.net lwn.net

Removal of Russian Dev's is no big deal cuz they are sanctioned both in Europe and the USA (Linux Foundation is registered in USA) https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-STMAC-Russian-Sanctions

However, he went on a little rant about hating Russia (He is a Fin, he has a right to not love them) and that was a bit odd (he did send and apology letter though)
Have fun reading.


Note: They are only removed from the maintainers list, which is not a big deal. However, their names should not have been removed from commits (I still have to verify this, will checkout the code and confirm)
 
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dvader said:
One of the rust maintainers stepped down this August in frustration (note: he worked for Microsoft)
[Linux Kernel Mailing List]

And if anyone follows the mailing list, sometimes Rust guys do try to force stuff upstream and they want things now. If they want to work that way, they should move to other organizations and/or projects.
Click to expand...
They didnt step down because things werent moving at a faster pace, though this indeed constituted part of the reason, the main issue was the outright condescension shown by other maintainers towards Rust devs, treating them as something lesser, not merging patches for months despite Rust maintainers sucessfully running that patch and showing some impressive gains, and the whole thing came to a head with that conference talk where those C maintainers basically talked down to the Rust ones, not letting them get a word in and basically bikeshedding them. I have been following the mailing list sporadically and from what I've seen, its some basement dwellers trying their absolute best in stonewalling any progress in a rust port out of some misguided worship of C
 
altair21 said:
They didnt step down because things werent moving at a faster pace, though this indeed constituted part of the reason, the main issue was the outright condescension shown by other maintainers towards Rust devs, treating them as something lesser, not merging patches for months despite Rust maintainers sucessfully running that patch and showing some impressive gains, and the whole thing came to a head with that conference talk where those C maintainers basically talked down to the Rust ones, not letting them get a word in and basically bikeshedding them. I have been following the mailing list sporadically and from what I've seen, its some basement dwellers trying their absolute best in stonewalling any progress in a rust port out of some misguided worship of C
Click to expand...
If Ted T'so is a basement dweller then Linux Torvalds should work in a toy factory. Linux kernel is not an Android app. Kernel devs have been talked down to way before Rust even existed, that's not new, Sharp (maintained USB 3.0 host controller driver) left citing the same toxicity https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/...munitys-toxic-background-radiation-82599.html and harsh words are way common in the mailing list. It's an open-source project, it has worked the way it has worked. Rust is not gonna replace 50+ filesystem code in the Kernel even if they become the project manager, RedHat, SUSE, or any competent entity is not gonna let that happen. The point is it's gonna be a slow long-term change and the rust contributors [mainly come from big tech (Microsoft, google, Amazon)] are trying to push it fast. Not gonna happen.
 
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dvader said:
If Ted T'so is a basement dweller then Linux Torvalds should work in a toy factory. Linux kernel is not an Android app. Kernel devs have been talked down to way before Rust even existed, that's not new, Sharp (maintained USB 3.0 host controller driver) left citing the same toxicity https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/...munitys-toxic-background-radiation-82599.html and harsh words are way common in the mailing list. It's an open-source project, it has worked the way it has worked. Rust is not gonna replace 50+ filesystem code in the Kernel even if they become the project manager, RedHat, SUSE, or any competent entity is not gonna let that happen. The point is it's gonna be a slow long-term change and the rust contributors [mainly come from big tech (Microsoft, google, Amazon)] are trying to push it fast. Not gonna happen.
Click to expand...
go watch this
and lmk what you think, I never specifically pointed out Tso btw and if there's anything that has proven its India that 'yahi chalta hai (this is what's been working)' is not a good reason to not change shit.
 
altair21 said:
go watch this
and lmk what you think, I never specifically pointed out Tso btw and if there's anything that has proven its India that 'yahi chalta hai (this is what's been working)' is not a good reason to not change shit.
Click to expand...
ok you misunderstood me. I love Rust, most of my linux coreutils are Rust replacement. I am in favor of change (long term ofc). I am just pointing out the reality that it's not gonna happen.

Larry Wall (Perl), Van Rossum (Python) ran their projects the same way.

Forget Linux. FreeBSD is run by a democratic council and it wouldn't work there either.
 
dvader said:
ok you misunderstood me. I love Rust, most of my linux coreutils are Rust replacement. I am in favor of change (long term ofc). I am just pointing out the reality that it's not gonna happen.
Click to expand...
dvader said:
Larry Wall (Perl), Van Rossum (Python) ran their projects the same way.

Forget Linux. FreeBSD is run by a democratic council and it wouldn't work there either.
Click to expand...
the issue is with others, specially python (since I follow them mostly) is, none of these are assholes, or try to be assholes to newcomers, I linked you the video so that you could see how these assholes were behaving with the Rust folks, all throughout the talk. Just listen to their banter.
 
altair21 said:
the issue is with others, specially python (since I follow them mostly) is, none of these are assholes, or try to be assholes to newcomers, I linked you the video so that you could see how these assholes were behaving with the Rust folks, all throughout the talk. Just listen to their banter.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I did and that's not just Rust folks, If you ask me that's nothing, there was a time when they would have been outright verbally abused, but that time has since passed.

Linux telling OpenSUSE (yeah the core Linux guys) to kill themselves
[2012] https://www.networkworld.com/articl...s-to-bad-security-devs-kill-yourself-now.html

The words have changed but the attitude remains:
[2024] https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2401.3/04208.html

Against C++ https://lwn.net/Articles/249460/

Again I am not condoning these actions. The point is it's Linus' project (along with the major contributors) and it has worked the way it has worked. Should it change "absolutely yes" will it change "nope never".

And the Big Tech can just fork the Linux Kernel and start converting even the assembly code to Rust but they won't do it you know why cuz no one will use the new kernel.

Btw on a separate note, FreeBSD recently got a lot of funding and they are working on some cool stuff. Instead of focusing on Linux's culture devs should focus on other major Linux alternatives (and many do) however it's the big tech devs who have ulterior motives developing for Linux.
 
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