Market Feedback Shipping at buyer's risk, why is it allowed?

[solo_wing]

These sellers (some of whom are defending their policy in this thread) are so rude in their listings and usually their pricing is horrible.

(Offtopic) : This might help you in life if you can understand what I mean to say ---- Dont come to quick conclusion of a person being rude incase he is giving you a straight forward answer and is clear about this thoughts.

 

[greenhorn]

All I'm saying is we can pack better.

Totally agree with this - I still havent figured out how to pack and ship stuff correctly. Every time i move between cities or countries i end up breaking a bunch of stuff.

I was an e-commerce seller once. I have packed close to half a lakh (nothing to brag about) packages myself before moving on to FBA-like solution. We should always assume that all couriers like to stomp on our packages. Keep packages ready for that eventuality.

If you are doing this at scale, you have the luxury of a decent supply of packing materials - Double walled carboard boxes, styrofoam, bubble wrap. as a personal seller, i am stuck with whatever stuff i can scrounge from what is leftover from the amazon parcels i recieve. I dont have the luxury of keeping the original packing materials of everything i buy around too.

This.

But by the comments of some people here, it seems they are only selling here as a charity to buyers or some sort of social service and they are not desperate to sell!!! Or because their spouses said so.

Why can't people understand that it's a mutual transaction? So risk should be mutual.

Only a fool would buy from sellers like these. These sellers (some of whom are defending their policy in this thread) are so rude in their listings and usually their pricing is horrible. The seller chose the courier and he chose the packaging and the foolish buyer has to take all the risk because the mighty lord said so. He is doing such a favor to the buyer by selling the item which is not available anywhere else. Come on buyers, stop being fools and buying from such people. This deal is so lopsided, it is not even funny. This is no deal.

@solo_wing was the first that I remember and now @ibose has become a master of such listings. I don't know why people keep buying from them.

Let me tell a story of an pair of earphones i bought from ibose. he had a pair of OS1 pro's for sale here

FS: Headphone - Earphones old and new : Panasonic, Philips, Harman, JBL, Opera Factory

Happy New Year folks ! This is my first sale post of 2022 1. Panasonic Ergofit (RP-TCM125GWKb) in Ears with mic Rs. 400/- 2 pairs additional tips included. No box or bill. Couple of years old but still in excellent working condition. 2. Philips Pro Series (PRO6105BK) in Ears with mic Rs. 600/-...

techenclave.com

I am guessing he bought them at 2500 when they were sold locally and he was selling them for 1800 after 6 months. I can totally understand where is he coming from - my own IEM collection is in the high 2 digit range, this is a hobby for him, he's just trying out different stuff and its probably part of his discretionary spending budget. He doesnt "need" to sell this. If he doesnt he can keep them around and continue playing around with them, much like i do with my own collection.

On the other hand, i missed the bus when OS1's were sold locally but was very interested in trying a pair. I can buy from abroad for $32 + Customs or amazon for a whopping 6.4K
Compared to that 1800 is a Steal. But on the other hand, I dont NEED them, but hey I can't say no to a pair of 4K IEM's going for 1.8K

If you look at it from ibose's point of view, if he doesnt sell, he will continue to have a 1.8K pair of headphones, if he sells them with the risk on him, he is looking at a A: getting 1.8K or B losing 1.8K
If you look at if from my point of view, If i dont buy it, i continue to keep my 1.8K. but if i buy it, i have just saved somewhere in the 2-4K range, but if the thing gets lost, i get a 1.8K loss.

In this trade, I have far more to gain from this than he does. To me So it was in my interest to persuade him to sell it, and i was happy to take the risk on me. if i force him to split the risk, the risk is 50/50 but the reward is 33/66. A bad deal for him, one which even I would not be interested if I were in his shoes.

Look if you think ibose's listings are in bad taste, don't buy from him. Nobody is forcing you. There are a fair amount of us who understand and are happy to deal with sellers like him, don't ruin it for us please

@ ibose, don't use this as an excuse to highball next time we trade mate, I was just being nice

 

[anmolkumar10]

If you look at it from ibose's point of view, if he doesnt sell, he will continue to have a 1.8K pair of headphones, if he sells them with the risk on him, he is looking at a A: getting 1.8K or B losing 1.8K
If you look at if from my point of view, If i dont buy it, i continue to keep my 1.8K. but if i buy it, i have just saved somewhere in the 2-4K range, but if the thing gets lost, i get a 1.8K loss.

1. It's not about 1 guy. I don't know who ibose is. I have seen his post sometimes but same with others. Also, feedback doesn't matter when things go south. That can be one reason it's optional. Anyways, no one is belittling one's image here.
2. Nobody sells as a social service. He/she needs money. Buyers also want products at cheap prices. This doesn't mean that to get 2-4k savings, I just take the risk of 1.8k. Who in the right mind will do that? (Options traders maybe)
3. If you can't take the shipping risk, just add that you want to sell it locally. But don't make it a norm to say shipping at buyer's risk here. Recently there has been an increase in such posts (Again, I don't want to blame any specific person). This can be a potential loophole for scammers. Suppose I as a scammer sell a damaged hard drive and ship it to a buyer at his risk. When the shipment arrives, I will tell him that it may have been damaged in transit. What's the buyer left with now?

You can do whatever you like with your sell threads within the guidelines, but just don't make it a norm here.

 

[greenhorn]

Nobody sells as a social service. He/she needs money.

I think our disagreement is about this point. Let us agree to disagree?

You can do whatever you like with your sell threads within the guidelines, but just don't make it a norm here.

I could make the same statement - You can set forth your conditions with your buyers, but just don't make it a norm here ? Keep status quo?

 

[anmolkumar10]

I could make the same statement - You can set forth your conditions with your buyers, but dust don't make it a norm here ?

It was never a norm here to add "shipping at buyer's risk". Atleast from the time I am active here. But recently it is becoming a norm. You can pick sell threads from last few months especially.

And when ill practices become a norm, then rules are made. So, why not thwart it from the beginning? It's my personal opinion. You don't need to agree. But I think many here will agree to not make it a norm.

 

[n1r0]

if what you say is true, buyers should have voted with their feet and avoided such sellers, and caused them to be willing to accept concessions on shipping risk. Yet that has not happened. Now the OP wants regulation to step in and force sellers to do that.

And seller has shown their cards by posting online, implying either that they couldn't find a local buyer, or they're too lazy to "vote with their feet" as you eloquenly put it. Basically both are in the same boat, that was the point I was trying to make. It takes 2 agreeable parties for a transaction to happen. So shipping risk should be equal. Don't like it? Don't sell/buy it

as a seller, there are two strategies. I can price items for a quick sale in which case i save time, but lose money, or i can lose time, and try to save money by waiting for the right buyer

Yup. Some people's time isn't as valuable as others', looking at how some have spent literally months/years trying to sell something at a high price. Long enough that they had an epiphany along the way and finally sold it for a fraction of the initial price, after wasting so much time bumping threads. Understandable for niche products as you said, but some stuff would have gotten sold offline easily at a more realistic price.

This seller was not interested in shipping at all. I had to beg and persuade him to let me arrange a pickup - It was a big bulky setup, and just one drop away from being damaged. If there was any risk on him, I am sure he would not have shipped.

Yup that is the sellers prerogative to not ship. Just as it was yours to accept it since you thought you were getting a good deal inspite of the risk. Everyone putting a blanket shipping at buyer's risk clause is trying to normalize this culture, which needs to be stopped. We are no longer living in a barbaric society where consumer protection doesn't exist.

An analogy would be you ship me a product and I as buyer tell you I am mailing you cash in an envelope (probably illegal). You have as fair a chance of receiving the funds as I have of the product. Now does that seem fair and equal to you?

Don't like it? Don't post a sales thread.

 

[codwapeace]

I think our disagreement is about this point. Let us agree to disagree?

I could make the same statement - You can set forth your conditions with your buyers, but just don't make it a norm here ? Keep status quo?

See this

FS: Others - Tablet Bluetooth Keyboard and Syba 4 port USB 3 PCIe Expansion Card (BOTH SOLD)

1. Tablet Bluetooth Keyboard with touchpad (and the fancy backlights) I had bought this for a FireHD tablet but it did not get used much hence selling it. I will be including the charging cable. Price : Rs.1000/- SOLD 2. Syba 4 port USB3 PCIe Card (1 port will be inside your case) I had bought...

techenclave.com

This was before the @solo_wing effect.