Sugar/Artificial Sugar

This video explains about various forms of sugar and also explains why those foods with jaggery etc. are not good as compared to products with simple sugar. The guy also mentions about the sugar in fruits and how those needs to be avoided. Does that mean that all fruits are bad or are there certain fruits which one needs to avoid i.e. if some fruits have more sugar than the others?

Also anything that you guys can recommend which doesn't have any sugar like a snack or something? It shouldn't have any maida and palm oil too.

@nRiTeCh @rootyme @guest_999 @ibose @altair21
First it was fat that was the demon, then it became carbohydrates, now sugar. I am sure with the advent of so many "carnivore dieters" we will soon see proteins become the demon.

Stupid people don't realize that they just need to consume less with growing age, instead of more. They just follow the newest diet gurus that make them feel less guilty about their tastes and choices.
e.g. case in point: the above bolded line, what is your definition of snack? and why do you deliberately intend to snack? this means you deliberately intend to make your main meals deficient?
This part is more wrong than the second sentence. Fat is just as good a source of energy (or maybe even better).
Tell that to your muscles when you have to sprint 400 meters or lift 40 kg overhead.
Again and again.
Perhaps the entire day.
 
> Stupid people don't realize that they just need to consume less with growing age, instead of more.

Stop calling other people stupid, those experts, researchers, etc. might be considering you stupid ?

As far as age is considered, one should control the kind of food they eat. But, consider your own words:

> Tell that to your muscles when you have to sprint 400 meters or lift 40 kg overhead.
> Again and again.
> Perhaps the entire day.

Even for aged people, where does energy comes from ?
Whom do you consider aged, who should reduce food altogether in your books ? The person who have to sprint 400 meters or lift 40 kg overhead ? What is that age range ? Does this apply to everyone irrespective of body size, gender, etc. ? Blatant generalizing is not going to help many people.

People's body genetics can be different, they should take what suits their body which can vary a lot.
 
> Stupid people don't realize that they just need to consume less with growing age, instead of more. They just follow the newest diet gurus that make them feel less guilty about their tastes and choices.

Stop calling other people stupid, those experts, researchers, etc. might be considering you stupid ?
1) laws of Physics don' change for anybody. Whether one is stupid or not, whether one is self styled new age nutrition guru or not.
2) I called them stupid for a very specific reason mentioned in blue (and conveniently overlooked by you)

As far as age is considered, one should control the kind of food they eat. But, consider your own words:

> Tell that to your muscles when you have to sprint 400 meters or lift 40 kg overhead.
> Again and again.
> Perhaps the entire day.

Even for aged people, where does energy comes from ?
Whom do you consider aged, who should reduce food altogether in your books ? The person who have to sprint 400 meters or lift 40 kg overhead ? What is that age range ? Does this apply to everyone irrespective of body size, gender, etc. ? Blatant generalizing is not going to help many people.

People's body genetics can be different, they should take what suits their body which can vary a lot.
Everyone, who is past the age where his/her respective height has stopped increasing. That could happen at 15 for me, 25 for you. Growth state requires high calories, stagnant state doesn't.
With each passing year, you tend to lose your muscle mass - another reason to understand that your bodie's calorific requirement will go down as you age.
With each passing step closed to old age, you tend to do less of manual labor work - another reason to realize that you don't require as many calories as you once did.
Even the sportsman that does 400 m sprints - his training will decrease 25 years onwards due to injuries (that will happen more frequently and stay longer with age).

Anyway, you are simply trying to divert the discussion away from sugar by getting onto a tangent. We can debate back and forth on a separate thread if you want.



The dietary recommendation pdf you have posted above (post 12) is from USDA (US department of Agriculture). Thanks, but no thanks.
I am not going to repeat the criticism of this document. Seek and ye shall find.
Save the thanks for the carnivore lobby funded to hilt by USDA

Selling grains/legumes is more profitable or selling meat & milk?

Oh and you conveniently ignored answering about Fats being better source of energy for the muscles involved in intense workouts.
 
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1) laws of Physics don' change for anybody.
Stupidity and laws of physics ? it does not change for you too, that is the point.
Strangely there is a sudden disconnect with 'experts' ? Aren't they always supposed to be listened to without questioning, as per some comment here ?
Is about general etiquette than physics and your intelligence above everyone else's who did tons of research on the topic.

> Anyway, you are simply trying to divert the discussion away from sugar by getting onto a tangent.
Rather, that is exactly what you are doing.
Discussions should be informative and helpful than snark, off tangent, hyperventilating, holier than though higher on horse attitude, etc. Part of every discussion here by some, the entire threads become hoard of negativity.

> We can debate back and forth on a separate thread if you want.
Hmm, there you go. Not interested.

> Everyone, who is past the age where his/her respective height has stopped increasing. That could happen at 15 for me, 25 for you. Growth state requires high calories, stagnant state doesn't.
Then stop generalizing about just age alone, everyone have different requirements, depending on different factors, that is the point.
 
Oh and you conveniently ignored answering about Fats being better source of energy for the muscles involved in intense workouts.
Why would I disagree with that?

However,

Carbs are a easy source of energy but should be used with proper care. A marathon runner (or any performance athlete) squeezing an energy gel tube is a very specialized user. Not an example for the rest of us. A regular person who uses carbs for his daily energy needs is on his way to insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome.

The body doesn't particularly like carbs. It can store and manage only a small amount. Any excess you feed it gets converted to fat and stored (at a huge cost and most of the time in the wrong parts).

Carbs always come with an instruction manual. Eat with fiber to ensure slow release. Eat your proteins before your carbs. Do not drink your calories (funnily enough, this only applies to sweet drinks, not to soups with a slab of butter). Is there a similar one for fats?

If you want to talk about the benefits of carbs, maybe you should mention the downsides too. By all means, eat an apple and some rice. But make carbs your primary source of energy at your own risk.
 
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The body doesn't particularly like carbs. It can store and manage only a small amount. But make carbs your primary source of energy at your own risk.
You are confusing many thing together eventually having no clue. Carbs are primary source of energy in a balanced diet & are not supposed to be stored at all assuming you are a normal person with normal energy expenditure but if you are sitting 10-12 hours on a chair & walking less than 500 steps in a day then you can afford to eat very less carbs & rely on slow energy providing fats to get you through the day but then that isn't what "normal person's normal energy expenditure" is. Carbs have only one downside, if you intake more carbs then what you expend via body energy consumption then it contributes to obesity/blood sugar leading to heath issues.
 
So much confusion here.
First, can we try to take the discussion in a scientific direction ? The specific mistakes being committed here are :

1. Conflation between carbohydrates in diet vs in blood as sugar vs glycogen e.g. in muscle/liver. The original question was about diet.
2. "Better" and "good" energy sources ? Better and good are highly unscientific terms. Even "essential" was largely discussed without a concrete definition.
3. Different energy sources may have different efficacies in different situations - some to recover from illness, some to be energetic in daily life, some for heavy workouts*.
Fat is a good source of energy for the rest of the body, but not for the brain.
Mistake number 1 and 2.
Mistake number 1. The vast majority of the document is about blood glucose , a lot of it is about even more specifically : brain glucose as is also evident from the title. Only one reference about diet is for rats, I hope we are talking about humans.

Read the basic biology books/wiki & any balanced diet recommendations from major medical & educational institutions. Or something simpler to understand, you know what is used in the drip to severely dehydrated patients in hospitals, glucose drip not liquid fat drip
Mistake number 1 and 3
Selling grains/legumes is more profitable or selling meat & milk?
Right - so politics and business. While this is complicated and both plant based and animal based food industries have unfair advantages. I don't profess to know enough to calculate both unfair advantages everywhere and find out which is greater. Given the complication and secrecy of these things it can be argued without much difficulty that no one else knows it either. One thing missed here is the "food security" of countries that pushed for grain stores in countries reaching astronomical proportions. The story is about the period of the Cold War, which happened soon after world wars when even developed countries faced food shortages and had to ration food. Grains can be stored much more easily for much longer than meat and dairy. So governments wanted grains to be grown a lot, whether or not people eat it in the short term. This led to, e.g. the payment to corn farmers in the US, even when they do not grow anything. The idea is to have the capacity to grow grains in case it is needed in times of war. This at least partly led to the explosion of corn stuff in the US - including ultra cheap sugar syrup made from it. And an explosion of grain in the world.

The government interest in people eating grains for their war preparation efforts has at least led to some lobbying in government agencies recommending more grain than may be good for people. Businesses are powerful, but governments and their covert intentions can be stronger in some contexts.

Fats being better source of energy for the muscles involved in intense workouts.
Mistake number 2 and 3, though mistake number 1 is also lurking just under the surface. Moreover, intense workouts were not even the subject of this discussion before you first mentioned lifts and sprints here.


* I have evidence that the different energy sources do have different efficacies, but the discussion here is too unscientific to mention any of that.
 
Mistake number 1 and 3
Carbohydrates in diet eventually gets converted to blood sugar/glucose/C6H12O6 which is the primary energy source in all living organisms so anybody saying carbs are not needed in a diet are wrong. Opinions may differ on quantity of carbs vis-a-vis a person's daily energy requirements but the fact remains that carbs are required as primary energy source unless it is some medical condition/extreme condition stating otherwise. This is also why glucose drips are used for patients requiring immediate energy which they are unable to get via eating food or immediately even if able to eat food.

The only scientific direction in such threads is mentioning that carbs, fats, proteins all are important but natural versions of them are not same as artificial/processed versions & one should not follow diets which heavily rely on one of them or heavily remove one of them without professional medical consultation.
 
Carbohydrates in diet eventually gets converted to blood sugar/glucose/C6H12O6
And then to glycogen, and fat. Then possibly used for energy. So "benefits" and "harms" of fat use for energy are included in this cycle. Hence this way of thinking is useless for analysing " benefits" and " harms" of fat vs carbohydrates as energy source.

Classic confounding variable. Helps you keep the discussion unscientific.

Edit : on second thought, not so classic. But helps in unscientific discussion nevertheless.
 
And then to glycogen, and fat. Then possibly used for energy. So "benefits" and "harms" of fat use for energy are included in this cycle. Hence this way of thinking is useless for analysing " benefits" and " harms" of fat vs carbohydrates as energy source.

Classic confounding variable. Helps you keep the discussion unscientific.

Edit : on second thought, not so classic. But helps in unscientific discussion nevertheless.
You seem to have taken the baton of being scientific and deciding what are mistakes.

What you think are mistakes are your opinion. What you think is science is anecdotal and pseudoscientific.

So, stop doing that, and then we can have a conversation.
 
You seem to have taken the baton of being scientific and deciding what are mistakes.

What you think are mistakes are your opinion. What you think is science is anecdotal and pseudoscientific.

So, stop doing that, and then we can have a conversation.
If you were willing and capable, you could have explained why the mistakes I pointed out are not really mistakes but paragon of scientific thinking. I wonder why you didn't do that.
The only scientific direction in such threads is .... versions & one should
"Should" is also highly unscientific, suitable for the WhatsApp University. Experiments, observations, control, etc. are enough, "should" can be left to people themselves or HCPs who are aware of specific conditions of the patient and maybe their goals.
 
And then to glycogen, and fat.
What are you talking about? This will be my last post here as I am tired of explaining basic biology facts again & again. Mitochondria is called the powerhouse of the cell exactly because it converts glucose to ATP. Anybody who says carbohydrates are on same level as fats when it comes to providing energy to the body have no idea what they are talking about.

"Should" is also highly unscientific, suitable for the WhatsApp University.
Now this is purely being grammar pedantic & nothing else. You talk about "should" in same post as "Experiments, observations, control" while completely ignoring/ignorant of basic biology facts. Your talk resembles a seasoned politician much more than a rational mind scientific temperament person but then that is what seems to be the quality which attracts majority of online people nowadays.
 
What are you talking about? This will be my last post here as I am tired of explaining basic biology facts again & again. Mitochondria is called the powerhouse of the cell exactly because it converts glucose to ATP. Anybody who says carbohydrates are on same level as fats when it comes to providing energy to the body have no idea what they are talking about.
Reading is a useful skill. It would have told you that at least I never said "carbohydrates are at the same level as fats". Talking about " levels" in this context is quite silly anyway. It also tells me that you completely missed the fact that dietary carbohydrates may get converted into fat inside the human body. So dietary carbohydrates might easily give energy to human cells by being converted into fats in between the process.

Now this is purely being grammar pedantic & nothing else. You talk a
Haha, your ignorance gets caught, call others pedantic. Anti intellectualism FTW.
 
What about that natural sugars in fruits and jaggery etc.?
Should note that sugar content is high is certain fruits like very sweet and ripe mangoes, etc. which can cause issues if used excessively (especially for people with diabetes). Checking calorie index and calorie load will help. So, everything in moderation.
For eg., if using sugar in tea, just use barely enough to reduce unpleasantness of taste. We tend to use excess white sugar in everything, try using other forms like jaggery, etc. whenever appropriate. Sometimes jaggery /brown sugar feels good in coffee. Acquired taste is learnable, for eg., tea tasting, you will find black tea without sugar pleasant if you learn how to taste the varieites, which also tend to reduce sugar in body.
I found Tropicana Stevia tablets better (other varities tend to give bitter taste), when used very lightly.
Just my personal opinion which I hope can be implemented in regular life, without overthinking. Oh, avoid overthinking too...
 
What about that natural sugars in fruits and jaggery etc.?
Sugar in fruits is fructose. It is processed by a different metabolic pathway than sucrose (the white sugar we use everyday). Different but not better.

If you want to research sugar metabolism, Robert Lustig is your man. You can find him on youtube

The video that made him famous:


Also look for his videos on fructose.
 
@becool773
Together with sugar, should also be seriously aware of another compound: Maltodextrin

This spikes glycemic index lot higher than white sugar, is a component in many many food items.
Because of labeling laws, it is not considered in "sugar" counts, gets used a lot in "sugar free" products or sugar substitute all the while more potentially unhealthy.

 
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