FS: Laptop Surface book 3 13.5 inch 256Gb 16gb Nvidia 1650 Max q version

In my opinion, a return and refund is the best resolution for both sides. Let's not escalate the situation further as it's clearly getting to the point of vile exchanges from both parties involved.
That being said, I have one request for all the sellers here. Saw this line by the seller in his Whatsapp text - 'A case of you trying to grab the lowest price possible and then trying to bargain'. That is clearly an insulting remark. If it's not clear already, we all bargain. We purchase goods online because they offer better deals aka bargains compared to offline stores. In fact we are here in the used market for the sole purpose of good bargains. Even a few days old electronics can be found for less than the actual retail price. Here the item in question costs upwards of 50k. If you think you're getting too low of a deal just deny the deal politely? What's the point of saying 'I knew XYZ was gonna happen if I sold it to some nitpicker like you'? I don't think the buyer is in a position where he can't just afford a new surface. He bought it from here precisely because of the low price. As a buyer, I would not like if any seller has that kind of thinking in the back of his mind while dealing with anything. Won't name anybody but some sellers here don't even consider replying a 'no' if they are not looking to deal with you. You keep waiting for the reply only to see that somebody else got it. They exist too.
A good lesson to take from this situation is that sellers need to properly test their electronics for every major defect before putting up a sell thread. If one doesn't have time, then he/she should take additional time to check every minute details properly. More so when the item in question is as expensive as this. The seller should be the nitpicker and not let the buyer be one.
 
My stand is based on following

1. I have clearly mentioned that the item is sold as is. Even spares of this item is more than the selling price.
2. Buyer had already bargained me to lowest price I can afford to sell even accepting that it’s hardware defect and spreading.
Any such defect is clearly changing on every reboot and I have told him same clearly, you cannot come back and bargain later that this key is another defect, that key is another issue. Because it’s a combination of hardware and software issue and I as seller has no control over how it will progress further.
3. Buyer had insisted on a warranty of sorts for peace of mind and I had clearly no intention to provide any and told it’s sold as it is. Take it or leave it.
4. About the DM that switch is working. I have already told that the DM was sent when switches healed after an update and immediately later on I again told that no it’s defective again. We had more than a one hour chat. I shared all info on videos as per his demands.
5. Yes Enter key issue had healed/resolved/rectified itself after some update as Surface firmware has almost 20 updates after a format. I had assumed it’s rectified and never bothered about it and had forgotten. Remember I have never used this item or installed even a word software. I was only concerned with C key . But the issue was unpredictable. I am pretty sure if another format is done there will be another type of error with some other switch. I have absolutely no control over those. Hence the low price.
6. When I am selling it as it is with no refunds buyer has every right to further ask more doubts and I would have cleared everything there was nothing to hide. Whatever videos he asked I have provided.
7. The issue he raised that on DM I told all working fine and then after 5 mins when we chatted on WhatsApp did I tell that issue was resolved?? NO
I told and showed all issues. I had deleted all videos of the surface keys working before he opened the chat and the chat had clearly proceeded with all issues being mentioned. He never asked why you DMed that it's working. I would have clarified that the excitement was short lived.
8. Even before this buyer I was contacted by another buyer from TE and I had told him if you need keyboard then don’t buy it. I can ask the buyer to respond here. I don’t even remember what key issue was there and we discussed.
9. This claimed about the C button not fitting and I told him yes I had opened and you need to apply the locks properly as I was very very gentle hence insisted that the issue is fitment and not broken key. He said he will inspect again and reverted. That time I immediately accepted his request and told to provide a key with hinge. I was just checking the lowest seller who was providing the shipping to India. It was some 5$ but shipping was 17$ so I had messaged a buyer to reduce the shipping price if possible.
10. When buyer wants a resolution on something I have clearly told being sold as is and the keys issues are unpredictable.

I WONT BE PROVIDING ANY RESOLUTION ON THIS. REFUND ISSUE DOESN’T EVEN ARISE.

(And yes I use the word healed in my professional field hence the usage here. Didn't meant like tantrik healing or magic of sorts.)
 
ayaskant12 said:
My stand is based on following

1. I have clearly mentioned that the item is sold as is. Even spares of this item is more than the selling price.
2. Buyer had already bargained me to lowest price I can afford to sell even accepting that it’s hardware defect and spreading.
Any such defect is clearly changing on every reboot and I have told him same clearly, you cannot come back and bargain later that this key is another defect, that key is another issue. Because it’s a combination of hardware and software issue and I as seller has no control over how it will progress further.
3. Buyer had insisted on a warranty of sorts for peace of mind and I had clearly no intention to provide any and told it’s sold as it is. Take it or leave it.
4. About the DM that switch is working. I have already told that the DM was sent when switches healed after an update and immediately later on I again told that no it’s defective again. We had more than a one hour chat. I shared all info on videos as per his demands.
5. Yes Enter key issue had healed/resolved/rectified itself after some update as Surface firmware has almost 20 updates after a format. I had assumed it’s rectified and never bothered about it and had forgotten. Remember I have never used this item or installed even a word software. I was only concerned with C key . But the issue was unpredictable. I am pretty sure if another format is done there will be another type of error with some other switch. I have absolutely no control over those. Hence the low price.
6. When I am selling it as it is with no refunds buyer has every right to further ask more doubts and I would have cleared everything there was nothing to hide. Whatever videos he asked I have provided.
7. The issue he raised that on DM I told all working fine and then after 5 mins when we chatted on WhatsApp did I tell that issue was resolved?? NO
I told and showed all issues. I had deleted all videos of the surface keys working before he opened the chat and the chat had clearly proceeded with all issues being mentioned. He never asked why you DMed that it's working. I would have clarified that the excitement was short lived.
8. Even before this buyer I was contacted by another buyer from TE and I had told him if you need keyboard then don’t buy it. I can ask the buyer to respond here. I don’t even remember what key issue was there and we discussed.
9. This claimed about the C button not fitting and I told him yes I had opened and you need to apply the locks properly as I was very very gentle hence insisted that the issue is fitment and not broken key. He said he will inspect again and reverted. That time I immediately accepted his request and told to provide a key with hinge. I was just checking the lowest seller who was providing the shipping to India. It was some 5$ but shipping was 17$ so I had messaged a buyer to reduce the shipping price if possible.
10. When buyer wants a resolution on something I have clearly told being sold as is and the keys issues are unpredictable.

I WONT BE PROVIDING ANY RESOLUTION ON THIS. REFUND ISSUE DOESN’T EVEN ARISE.

(And yes I use the word healed in my professional field hence the usage here. Didn't meant like tantrik healing or magic of sorts.)
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  1. Your as is exists in your own little universe as I was completely unaware of the issues not communicated to me before the deal.
  2. I paid a pretty hefty price considering the hardware defects hidden from me before the deal. That you accepted the deal clearly indicates it was a fair price in your mind. So please stop playing the charity card here. You said nothing about the broken C key and non-functioning ENTER key. This alone voids the confidence and the deal. @Mods, please clarify here.
  3. I asked for a warranty because you were changing your statements every hour. At ten O'clock a key was working, at eleven it was not. There was no consistency in your arguments.
  4. BS. You did not say a word about the broken C key and ENTER key, which was not working at all. You only mentioned Z, C, and V keys sometimes not working as intended. I found out even the X key was inserting !X. I have WhatsApp screenshots to prove this.
  5. Lies. You made a Reddit post about ENTER key in June and it wasn't working when I received it, either. During the entire conversation on TE and WhatsApp, you said absolutely nothing about it.
  6. You never mentioned the now oft repeated "no refunds" policy. Not once. Everywhere in the world when a seller fails to mention an obvious hardware fault, refunds are issued. eBay and Reddit included. Again, your "as is" was not clear to me as a buyer because you were withholding crucial information. Remember, the laptop was with you. I could not check and verify your "as is" claims until I had it in person.
  7. Lies again. You said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the C and ENTER key problems. Your entire time was spent on convincing me that it was a temporary glitch and could be rectified by reinstalling the OS or installing Surface firmware. Which was a load of crock, to be honest. Now we all know.
  8. No one cares about what your friend or other buyers said.
  9. You only accepted the broken C key problem when I insisted that it was broken. You had been trying to sweep it under the carpet just as you are doing now. Blaming it all on the victim.
  10. What a load of BS again. Your "as is" exists in your own head until it is either communicated properly or discovered upon inspection. I had to find out your "as is" standards the hard way.
I raise three simple points. Answer without resorting to hyperbole or your usual dramatic BS.
  1. I, the buyer, knew nothing about the broken C key and you only accepted the problem when I insisted it was broken. Yes or no?
  2. You made a Reddit post in June about the ENTER key problem but never disclosed to me. Yes or no?
  3. You have insinuated that I have been arm-twisting and manipulating you. Prove your allegations or apologize here in public for your lies and slander. As evident from all the screenshots, I was extremely polite and curt about everything UNTIL you refused to even discuss a resolution.
Now, here are my open allegations that can be proved:
  1. You lied about the broken C key.
  2. You lied about the ENTER key problem.
  3. You lied about the keys being mysteriously healed by system updates and all that shaman crap.
  4. You promised to replace the broken key and reneged on it when your lies were exposed once I discovered your Reddit post.
  5. You have withheld information and sold a laptop in much worse condition than was agreed upon before the deal. This, along with your brash refusal to even discuss resolution or issue a refund, makes you a person with questionable moral values. And a less than ideal seller here.

Mods, I request you to intervene now as I have been scammed by this seller here.
 
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puns said:
@Yamaraj & @ayaskant12, my personal advice is to discuss this privately and come to an acceptable resolution. If it doesn't work out, let us know. Then we will get involved and it could lead to repercussions so please discuss amicably to resolve.
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Well said. I hope the other party sees the light and offers terms.
 
my 2 cents, just to add some context :

@ayaskant12 asked @Yamaraj not to proceed with the deal, however, despite knowing the complications with the keyboard - that it had issues which were recurring and constantly changing, he went ahead with the deal because the SB3 @ 53k is an insane deal as it is, even if we consider it doesn't come with the keyboard.

I can confirm that the device was perfect - screen and everything, however, the keyboard was iffy. in the sense that zxcv had certain issue, but resolved after updates. Enter key was registering an additional $ after enter. Which again remedied suddenly. And then later these issues cropped again, albeit one or all at a time..

@ayaskant12 explicitly stated the keuboard part being as-is from the texts. he explained some of the issues that plagued the device, but I don't think he said anywhere that those issues were the only issues the device had. in the sense that he was himself unaware if new issues might crop up anytime again.
this is something the buyer himself conceded, accepted, and stated he would change the base in a month or two. this has to be a crucial part in understanding the context. because the device was available for a bargain price, it seemed a no brainer despite the issues it had. often we think that the issue could be generic and could be a s/w fix - many people might try attempting to rectify only to realize that it indeed was h/w issue and would need a replacement, nothing else.

I have dealt with @Yamaraj earlier for a Surface Pro 7 and he was gentleman through the deal, the device was perfect and no issues, so we didn't have any hiccups tbh though.


coming back to this SB3 and the issues - @ayaskant12 was contemplating using the device as a standalone tablet, sell his other tablets and use the SB3 with a separate case as a powerful tablet on the move prior to selling it. he himself bought it for over 70k, and with the additional shipping to and fro, it has cost him ~75k. as stated earlier, he wasn't looking to entertain the sale due to the issues in hand, while @Yamaraj persisted despite knowing the issues, and that the issues stated by @ayaskant12 was not the exhaustive list of issues that the keyboard might have - the device itself (tablet) is a solid 100/100 condition, no marks or otherwise. the kb is also physically alright looking at it, but the issue with certain keys are a bummer - which were stated by the seller, and also stated was that the issues were not as simple as they appear - they recur, they change, updates alter the issues as so on.

does @Yamaraj feel that @ayaskant12 cheated him selling a malfunctioning device hiding crucial aspects? i don't think so - if he hadn't stated any issue, or claimed that the device is completely functional, we would argue about that.
given the statements from both, we understand that both were aware about the issues and that the issues stated were probably not the entire list of issues - there could be more than that wrt the keyboard.
the issues were not limited to the ones described, and that was understood by both the parties.

I am absolutely sure that despite the device being out of warranty, if one were to escalate the issue with MS through mail regarding the keyboard, they might provide a solution.

@Yamaraj you need to explain what sort of resolution you are looking for here, bearing in mind you were aware of the keyboard issues the device had and not merely limited to the issues that were explained.
 
thegoodsamaritan said:
my 2 cents, just to add some context :

@ayaskant12 asked @Yamaraj not to proceed with the deal, however, despite knowing the complications with the keyboard - that it had issues which were recurring and constantly changing, he went ahead with the deal because the SB3 @ 53k is an insane deal as it is, even if we consider it doesn't come with the keyboard.

I can confirm that the device was perfect - screen and everything, however, the keyboard was iffy. in the sense that zxcv had certain issue, but resolved after updates. Enter key was registering an additional $ after enter. Which again remedied suddenly. And then later these issues cropped again, albeit one or all at a time..

@ayaskant12 explicitly stated the keuboard part being as-is from the texts. he explained some of the issues that plagued the device, but I don't think he said anywhere that those issues were the only issues the device had. in the sense that he was himself unaware if new issues might crop up anytime again.
this is something the buyer himself conceded, accepted, and stated he would change the base in a month or two. this has to be a crucial part in understanding the context. because the device was available for a bargain price, it seemed a no brainer despite the issues it had. often we think that the issue could be generic and could be a s/w fix - many people might try attempting to rectify only to realize that it indeed was h/w issue and would need a replacement, nothing else.

I have dealt with @Yamaraj earlier for a Surface Pro 7 and he was gentleman through the deal, the device was perfect and no issues, so we didn't have any hiccups tbh though.


coming back to this SB3 and the issues - @ayaskant12 was contemplating using the device as a standalone tablet, sell his other tablets and use the SB3 with a separate case as a powerful tablet on the move prior to selling it. he himself bought it for over 70k, and with the additional shipping to and fro, it has cost him ~75k. as stated earlier, he wasn't looking to entertain the sale due to the issues in hand, while @Yamaraj persisted despite knowing the issues, and that the issues stated by @ayaskant12 was not the exhaustive list of issues that the keyboard might have - the device itself (tablet) is a solid 100/100 condition, no marks or otherwise. the kb is also physically alright looking at it, but the issue with certain keys are a bummer - which were stated by the seller, and also stated was that the issues were not as simple as they appear - they recur, they change, updates alter the issues as so on.

does @Yamaraj feel that @ayaskant12 cheated him selling a malfunctioning device hiding crucial aspects? i don't think so - if he hadn't stated any issue, or claimed that the device is completely functional, we would argue about that.
given the statements from both, we understand that both were aware about the issues and that the issues stated were probably not the entire list of issues - there could be more than that wrt the keyboard.
the issues were not limited to the ones described, and that was understood by both the parties.

I am absolutely sure that despite the device being out of warranty, if one were to escalate the issue with MS through mail regarding the keyboard, they might provide a solution.

@Yamaraj you need to explain what sort of resolution you are looking for here, bearing in mind you were aware of the keyboard issues the device had and not merely limited to the issues that were explained.
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At the risk of repeating myself again and again, here are some points for you, @thegoodsamaritan:
  1. SB3 @53K is not an insane deal without the base. I got an unused, sealed Surface Pro 8 (120Hz) i7/16/256 with pen and keyboard for $650 from the states early this year. SB3 without the base is equivalent to an SP7, minus the keyboard and even the kickstand. I would not have paid more than 45-46K for just the tablet. I went ahead with the deal not knowing anything about the broken key (which is not a constantly changing phenomenon), and the ENTER key which the seller knew about but deliberately held back (which is also not a constantly changing phenomenon). I hope you understand how insincere your point is.
  2. I have said nothing different. Screen is fine, as is the rest of the tablet itself. As per the seller, only ZCV had issues, which mysteriously resolved on its own. Again, he said nothing about the ENTER key. Not once. Zilch, nada, zip, nil. When I accidentally discovered his Reddit post made in June and confronted him, he lost his composure and went crazy. This alone proves he either expected me to keep quiet about it or ignore it completely.
  3. As is means nothing to the buyer without physical access to the goods. Especially when information is withheld. How hard is it to understand this simple concept? I offer to sell you my old car "as is", but never explain the gear box is kaput. What does it make you if not a victim? What does it make me if not an insincere seller?
  4. Based on the lies the seller was peddling, buyer expected a somewhat functional device with working ENTER key and mostly functional and sometimes unpredictable ZXCV keys. Not a single word more needs to be said here. Everything is already out there to read in screenshots.
  5. Thanks for acknowledging. One of my employees is happily using your SP7 which sees 8 hours of work five days a week. No problems whatsoever. Deal was smooth as butter.
  6. Offered a price, not persisted. I didn't hold the seller at gunpoint or made an offer he couldn't refuse. Actually I did make an offer he could not refuse, which is why we're here. I paid a very good price and he was only too happy to get rid of the faulty laptop.
  7. Seller repeatedly asserted that ZCV keys were sometimes not working properly, and also that everything was fine after a system update. Please check screenshots again. Nowhere did the seller imply that one key was also broken and ENTER key was also not working since June. Nowhere did the seller explain that issues were not simple or anything like that. Again, go through the evidence posted here.
  8. Please do not assume how I feel. That is up to me to decide. I feel that the seller should have shared everything with me before I made payment. I had already backed off twice and would have walked out the moment he mentioned a non-working ENTER key. Or I would have paid only for the tablet.
  9. "given the statements from both, we understand that both were aware about the issues" // False. Seller was aware of all the issues, I was not. Let's not trivialize this.
  10. I approached the seller politely on WhatsApp with honest feedback and requested a resolution. He has refused to cooperate so far. See:

1691573812620.png

1691573711551.png


@thegoodsamaritan, after these responses, it is the seller who needs to explain what sort of a resolution he can provide, bearing in mind I was entirely unaware of broken keys and a completely unusable ENTER key.
 
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thegoodsamaritan said:
@Yamaraj you need to explain what sort of resolution you are looking for here, bearing in mind you were aware of the keyboard issues the device had and not merely limited to the issues that were explained.
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The buyer should receive exactly what was promised, no? You're trying to pin this on the buyer like enter key isn't a big deal. I suggest as mod advised we leave this to the both of them and not bring any justification for the seller or the buyer just so we know them better.
 
puns said:
@Yamaraj & @ayaskant12, my personal advice is to discuss this privately and come to an acceptable resolution. If it doesn't work out, let us know. Then we will get involved and it could lead to repercussions so please discuss amicably to resolve.
Click to expand...
Not a peep from the seller so far. No messages, DMs; nothing at all.
 
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