Video Tata sky asking for HD STB to be returned

S

sandeepk

Disciple
I used to use Tata Sky HD service for a year or two. I stopped using it since Diwali 2012 because of their high price and switched to some other service provider.

Today I got call from a number and the lady claimed to be Tata sky employee. She said that since I don't use the service, I now need to return the STB. I will not get any money in return. She said that the Tata sky owns the STB and not us. She mentioned that this is mentioned in the terms and conditions. Look here:

http://www.tatasky.com/wps/wcm/connect/5641b248-31b3-41e9-81e0-88db15143bd1/Tata Sky Subscription Contract.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url&CACHEID=5641b248-31b3-41e9-81e0-88db15143bd1

She also mentioned that dish is owned by the user. Here she contradicted herself as the terms mentioned above says that too is owned by Tata sky.

Till now I was under the impression that the user owns the STB. Dish and access card was owned by Tata sky. Has any of you got such a call? What to do in such a case?
 
Ignore them, Tell them you have lost STB, remote while shifting homes.
If they come to your house, Tell them That person with registered TS Id doesn't stay here anymore. If they go and try to take the Dish, tell them you will call up the cops, since it amounts to theft. Kissa khallas!
 
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Ignore them completely, that's what I am doing with airtel but moron still call me after 2 years to collect it....
Don't worry about it...
 
Why the hell these guys want our stuff for which we have paid while installation?
Cant they offer any refund or some subsidize amount before taking away the item?
 
nRiTeCh said:
Why the hell these guys want our stuff for which we have paid while installation?
Cant they offer any refund or some subsidize amount before taking away the item?
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Since the customer is not using their services, they feel that can make some cash on it by refurbishing and use them again under warranty for other customers.
First of all the manufacturing cost of STB+Dish is less than 900Rupees and they charge us 1750Rupees as an Retail price, They still want the equipment back if customer doesn't use? Even your LCO has right to get back your STB, you do not own it , but i guess they won't dare to ask.
 
Thank you all for your replies.

I have not yet got any phone call since yesterday morning regarding this. If someone does call, I will ask them for money back for STB+installation charges. I cannot understand what is the use of money they ask for buying the STB for the first time? Also they take additional money (in my case Rs. 500) for installation. Is it supposed to be a goodwill shown towards Tata sky by us?

If all the equipment is supposed to be owned by them, why not provide them on loan and take a security deposit? Deposit should be returned when connection is closed. Currently the warranty on hardware is only 1 yr. You need to pay for engineer visit and cost of components replaced. That is outrageous!!

And last one thing I cannot understand is why wait for 2 yrs to take back the STB?
 
Tell them you stopped using since your stb went kaput and not to call you agian. If they do, tweet to them on Twitter or something. Call it harassment.
 
sandeepk said:
You need to pay for engineer visit and cost of components replaced. That is outrageous!!
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170 Bucks for service visit
350 for LNB change
300 for remote(in case it stops working) replacement after 1 year
& Unreasonably high charges for the TV Packages.
 
I am not a lawyer but this is what my common sense tells me.
1. According to the service agreement, the set-top box is Tatasky's property & they have the right to take it back.
2. However, the customer has paid a certain amount to purchase the box (and remember that nowhere Tatasky mentions that the box is rented & not sold, so automatically it is sold.)
Therefore the service agreement would not stand in court of law and customer has to be refunded in case the box needs to be returned.
 
If the DTH company is thinking to rent the device and dish, they should collect a refundable amount and pay the customer back his amount where he returns the product. Asking for device is senseless since the customer the paying the company Full cost of the device upfront.
 
@pauldmps

I was trying to find a mention (website/print ads/brochure) about whether the set top box is being sold/rented. If you have found one please share it with me.

@asingh

Exactly. If they wanted it back, they could have taken it long before. I got calls from them since I stopped renewing the subscription (generally once a month) for around 6 months. After that they stopped calling) In all of them I had told them that their service is costly and I have switched to other service provider. They could have mentioned this at that point of time that they want the set top box back. But they didn't!
 
I don't think that they mention anywhere anything about renting - in TV ads or print media. Everywhere they mention the MRP (which I guess is retail price i.e. selling price). They have no ground of taking back the box for free.
 
sandeepk said:
@pauldmps

I was trying to find a mention (website/print ads/brochure) about whether the set top box is being sold/rented. If you have found one please share it with me.

@asingh

Exactly. If they wanted it back, they could have taken it long before. I got calls from them since I stopped renewing the subscription (generally once a month) for around 6 months. After that they stopped calling) In all of them I had told them that their service is costly and I have switched to other service provider. They could have mentioned this at that point of time that they want the set top box back. But they didn't!
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pauldmps said:
I don't think that they mention anywhere anything about renting - in TV ads or print media. Everywhere they mention the MRP (which I guess is retail price i.e. selling price). They have no ground of taking back the box for free.
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http://www.tatasky.com/wps/wcm/conn...&CACHEID=5641b248-31b3-41e9-81e0-88db15143bd1

Point 10.6 clearly states it. You don't own the hardware.

10.1 Post Installation, We do not assure that the Tata Sky hardware will be fault free and any external damage or tampering with the same is Your responsibility.

10.2 You must keep Tata Sky hardware in good and useable condition at all times (fair wear and tear excepted) until returned to or collected by Us.

10.3 You agree that We may, at any time after deactivation of the Service, retrieve the Tata Sky hardware from the Address.

10.4 Only We can authorise the installation, retrieval, repair or maintenance of the Tata Sky hardware.

10.5 You must not remove any marking that identifies the Tata Sky hardware as belonging to Us.

10.6 All Tata Sky hardware will at all times remain the property of Tata Sky and ownership cannot be transferred. The Tata Sky hardware cannot be moved from the Address without Our prior written consent, for any purpose whatsoever.

10.7 You acknowledge that the Tata Sky hardware has been provided to you on an entrustment basis, without any consideration, only to avail of the Service during the validity of the Subscription Contract. As the Tata sky hardware has been provided on entrustment basis, it cannot be construed that any rights in the Tata Sky hardware or otherwise of whatsoever nature has been transferred to You by Us. We reserve the right to repossess the Tata Sky hardware and/or claim damages from you for any loss or unauthorized use or damage to the Tata Sky hardware or if the Tata Sky hardware is stolen during the period it has been provided to You on an entrustment basis or in the event of Your failure to return the Tata Sky hardware immediately upon cancellation of Your Service.

10.8 We may from time to time, for any reason, replace the Tata Sky hardware or any component thereof. In such cases, You will cooperate with Us in the replacement of the Tata Sky hardware or any component thereof. We will notify You of the details for the process of replacing the Tata Sky hardware or any component thereof.

10.9 You must not take the Digicard out of the Digicomp. You must not allow anyone else to otherwise tamper with or use the Tata Sky hardware in any manner We do not specifically authorise.

10.10 Each Digicard is compatible with only one Digicomp, and cannot be used on any other Digicomp.

10.11 If You transfer the Tata Sky hardware without Our prior written consent We reserve the right to cancel the Services and/or terminate the Subscription Contract without prejudice to our right to obtain necessary reliefs/claim damages from You in accordance with law.

10.12 In order to receive an uninterrupted Service, You must keep Your Digicard in the Digicomp and the Digicomp must be connected to a main power supply and minidish and kept at the standby mode when not in use.

10.13 If required, Tata Sky on its sole discretion shall update the software in the Digicomp by sending signals to the Digicomp.

10.14 Tata Sky will deactivate the Digicard if it is necessary to protect the security of Our system or any other part of the Service or if We believe You are using the Digicard in ways which are not authorised, or where We otherwise believe it is reasonable to do so.

10.15 You shall use the Tata Sky hardware only in the manner prescribed in this Subscription Contract. You cannot use the Tata Sky hardware in any manner or for any purpose not specifically prescribed herein.

10.16 You must not allow any other person or entity to use the Tata Sky hardware in any manner and for any purpose whatsoever.
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And pt 10.7 says

10.7 You acknowledge that the Tata Sky hardware has been provided to you on an entrustment basis, without any consideration, only to avail of the Service during the validity of the Subscription Contract. As the Tata sky hardware has been provided on entrustment basis, it cannot be construed that any rights in the Tata Sky hardware or otherwise of whatsoever nature has been transferred to You by Us. We reserve the right to repossess the Tata Sky hardware and/or claim damages from you for any loss or unauthorized use or damage to the Tata Sky hardware or if the Tata Sky hardware is stolen during the period it has been provided to You on an entrustment basis or in the event of Your failure to return the Tata Sky hardware immediately upon cancellation of Your Service.
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Long time back I read somewhere that the regulation is that set top box can be either rented or sold. If on rent then any service / repair of the equipement has to be taken care of by the service provide. Also the security etc becomes refundable. If its' sold, then it in possession of the customer and so their responsibility and right.

Interestingly found this .

Excerpts
The complainant has alleged that the above mentioned four Direct to Home
(DTH) service providers are limiting competition among themselves, forcing the
consumers to buy bundled hardware and creating entry barrier for new
hardware manufacturers. These practices are anti competitive and violate Sec
3 & 4 of Competition Act, 2002.
(iii) To avail DTH service, a customer requires 4 instruments beside the television.
1) A small dish antenna (usually fixed on terraces) to gather DTH signal, 2) a
small radio-size device (usually placed over the TV set and colloquially called
set top box) to read the DTH signal, 3) a control instrument (usually
incorporated within the STB) called conditional access module CAM which -2-
ensures that the consumer avails only what he has paid for, and last 4) a smart
card to identify the user.
(iv) Ideally the antenna and the STB should be available in the open market and
DTH service provider should provide only the CAM + smart card (or possibly
only a smart card). So that whenever a consumer wishes he can buy another
CAM + card from another DTH service. This way the DTH operators would
compete on service, quality and price.
(v) The DTH operators in the Country are selling CAM + card + STB + antenna
bundled together and charging the consumer for all these products.....
(vi)This way they are able to withhold their customer who is loath to buy the entire
hardware again if he wishes to change the DTH operator. The DTH company
understands that the customer is stuck and thereafter regularly overcharges
him by small amounts in the monthly recharge.
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.
. And the findings ...
6. Findings of D G (Investigation)
First Report dt. 24/09/09
(i) The license issued by the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting
provides for open architecture STB i.e. interoperability among different
service providers. The interoperability is also specified in the standards
set by Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS). The BIS standards provides for
common slot in the Set Top Box to ensure technical interoperability.
(ii) To comply with standards and guidelines, the service providers have
provided for common slot CAM (Conditional Access Module) in STB for
inserting smart card / viewing card. However, none of the DTH service
providers provide their CAM independent of the STB for sale in open
market, thereby effectively limiting the interoperability.
(iii) Set top box and the Smart Card provided by the various DTH service
providers are customized so that they do not work for any other DTH
Service provider.
(iv) As per TRAIs DTH (Standards of quaity of service and redressal of
grievances) Regulation 2007, DTH service providers are supposed to
provide three options i.e. outright purchase, hire purchase and rental for
STB. These options are seldom offered to customers.
(vii) Most STBs are given under outright sale to the customer. Yet, DTH
service providers refuse its ownership to the customer.
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53. The facts found by the D.G. and admitted by some of the DTH operators is
that tie-in exists. When a consumer approaches for the feed of T.V. signals, the
operator asks him to take the DTH hardware from it or the T.V. feed is not given.
This has led to the fact that no market exists where a consumer can buy setup box
which is interoperable and in whose slot the CAM of any operator can be fixed.
Further it has been argued that the setup box cannot be separated from the DTH
service and that it was a part of the same service. This amounts to saying that
electricity and wire in which the electricity is carried are the same product. The
operators have got the DTH customised with their service and CAM in complete
violation of the licensing arrangement. Further the tie-in violates clauses (a), (c) and (f) of Section 19(3) of the Act as discussed earlier primarily because by the tie-in arrangement the market and manufacture of the DTH hardware did not develop in India. Thus, there is an appreciable adverse effect to competition in India due to the tie in arrangement.
Click to expand...
 
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Blame the govt or the CCI. If they had enforced it according to the suggestions then we would have portability of connections just like there is MNP for mobile phones.
 
pauldmps said:
I own a TataSky connection & I know what the agreement contains. However, the agreement will not stand in the court of law for the reasons I mentioned earlier. You can go check with a lawyer.
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Maybe but won't your lawyer bill be more than the 2k or so you paid for the box? They are probably banking on the fact that people won't go to consumer court or if they do they'll just let them keep the device after winning the case.
 
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