The Hindu Vs The Times of India

[agantuk]

^ Did you actually say Times has good English or was that a typo?

 

[Krow]

^ Did you actually say Times has good English or was that a typo?

If you look at it, times has good English as it has some of the best editors (as it pays the best salaries in the industry). I don't understand where this Hindu has good English and times has bad comes from. The styles are different. As I said if you like academic writing then hindu is for you. Most of their reports have unnecessarily long sentences. Like I said, we edited reports which were published in the Hindu for one year.

As for times, they have some of the best headlines along with express. Their english is decent. Could you give examples of bad English in toi? Not saying you are wrong but haven't been reading it since April.

 

[agantuk]

^ Read this article, poor proof reading. Nothing new with TOI really.

Bullet train to Chennai in the offing - The Times of India

 

[kris]

Times has good English????? I wouldnt bother to call it English at all, let alone good english!

Really? For one year in college we only had badly written Hindu reports to edit. It is a popular misconception that Hindu has good English.

I find the writing in the Hindu to be drab and academic. Certainly not a way to improve English. Not sure about TOI comparisons but times does have good English if not the best content. I like their headlines.

 

[Krow]

Hmmm opinions differ. I think all newspapers are more or less at the same level. I don't think any paper is vastly better than the rest. Peace.

@agantuk That is my point. I have read so many similarly badly written Hindu reports that I cannot believe it sets any standards in English.

 

[JuGGa]

^^Whatever be the truth, I have always seen recommendations for Hindu for improving english. Though I've read it once, I couldn't find something "so tough". Also my english is not so good. I always end up getting at least 10+ unknown words in TOI, that too daily :ashamed: . But one thing I must say about TOI, that its english has improved a lot (reading it from 4 years). Actually I find "average Indian english" to be up-leveled. :|
TOI rocks for one thing- its horoscope hyeah: It matches with me too well! (99%)

 

[asingh]

^^

Read classics if you want to improve English and vocabulary. Most publications in India are quite lame. Stuff like this goes a long way.

 

[JuGGa]

^^Used to read Charles Dickens stories in childhood. Won't foreign writers reading novels help? Till date, I've read 2 of Sidney Sheldon and The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.

 

[asingh]

^^

Does not that list have foreign writers. Sidney Sheldon is trash print porn. Coelho if you want to be "in there" with people. Nothing great.

 

[JuGGa]

^^Have heard a lot about Dan brown.Though I feel that Indian writers/authors just use typical words/vocabs just to make their writings appear of "higher quality". Sometimes I find foreign writers easy to read as compared with desi books.

 

[asingh]

^^Have heard a lot about Dan brown.Though I feel that Indian writers/authors just use typical words/vocabs just to make their writings appear of "higher quality". Sometimes I find foreign writers easy to read as compared with desi books.

The Da Vinci code was a good novel in the sense thought provoking -- but only till you were reading it. After that it was over. The language style is not that refined and educative per say. Yes, if someone has a decent understanding of Christiandom and the workings of the Catholic church along with the influence and instigation and benevolence of The Crusades; the novel seems more racy and justifiable propaganda. Give it a try if you get the time.

 

[aka911]

We are moving away from newspapers here. But dan brown is trash. When an author repeats the same word every 25 pages, and sometimes the same phrase, you get a sense of deja vu in a bad way. Read early john grisham books to see how simple english can go a long way. If you are after british english, then saki is your guide. .

 

[nanoneo]

Yeah, Dan Brown isn't much of a writer but you've got to give him credit for coming up with those zany conspiracy theories.

Also, on topic, neither the Hindu nor the TOI have good English. Hindu uses outdated post-colonial verbose language while TOI dumbs it down too much.

When was the IE ever better than ToI?

Are you referring to the New Indian Express or The Indian Express? The former is a breakaway group based in the south while the latter is the same paper that once stood for true ethical journalism. Unfortunately they fell victim to their inability to adapt to a changing market. The Congress also made them pay dearly in the 90's exacting their revenge upon them. They hobbled through the 90's and early 2000's and started sensationalising news to compete for readership. Unfortunately it hasn't worked as they are now a poor excuse for a newspaper.

 

[chiron]

I've read both and IE as well as when it became NIE(1995-2001) and they were the same in terms of schlock and masala content fwir.

 

[blr_p]

Damn! How did I miss this thread earlier? The shittiness of TOI used to be a pet rant of mine. I see we are almost in unanimous agreement that TOI sucks. I feel the same way. I even quit journalism because of it, which I will get into detail later. Ok, wall of text coming up:

I like the sunday paper, theres 3 pages in it that are good. Have heard good things about the crest edition but not read it yet, anybody familair with it, supposed to come out on a saturday.

Everyone is now playing catch-up with TOI while at the same losing readers to sensationalist TV news. Of course the old adage always works - 'if you can't beat em, join em', and that's what everyone is doing.

A race to the bottom so to speak.

Even conventional hard hitting fact-driven papers like Indian Express and the Statesman have now begun carrying sensationalist articles in a constant war of attrition. Me and a lot of my journalist buddies quit news for this very reason. As it stands if you work in one of these papers, you have to file an 'exclusive' everyday and if you can't, then your'e chewed up by the boss and often given bad performance ratings. Some reporters sink down to plagiarism or even invent stories out of nothing using out-of-context quotes or misrepresenting facts. Non-sensationalist stories are ignored or sensationalised. These reporters are just trying to keep their jobs. They have to toe the line. Often a reporter files a factual story only to be surprised the next day as the desk changes the story to make is more sensationalist. You as a reporter lose all control of your story once you file it.

This is why i'm interested in more FDI in the current affairs & news segment. Its limited to 26% currently, it must be raised to 51% so that it shakes up the market here which has become stale and uncompetitive. bennet coleman has a monopoly and they want to protect their turf by arguing that the 'news & current affairs' section is strategic. As they go so must everyone follow.

I want ppl like murdoch to come here and give the industry a good kick in the pants.

Really? For one year in college we only had badly written Hindu reports to edit. It is a popular misconception that Hindu has good English.

I find the writing in the Hindu to be drab and academic. Certainly not a way to improve English. Not sure about TOI comparisons but times does have good English if not the best content. I like their headlines.

I noticed this when i first read it, much harder read in comparison to say the NYT and English is not a problem for me. Have gotten used to it now, my focus is more on what it tells me rather than the way. But you're right in terms of effective communication its a bit lacking.

My focus when i read a paper is whether i come away from it informed or more confused. Usualy a good article will do the former. But its more the exception to find an article like that in an indian newspaper than any reputed foreign publication. Periodicals like magazines are the way to go for that, weeklies & monthlies rather than dailes. This is why i like the STOI because the authors i follow there write only once a week so there is a more research put into it, the special report section is usually quite good & informative.

The thing is news companies here do not invest as much as their overseas counterparts do. I think its because the price of newspapers sold here is so very low. I believe you only pay 10% of what it costs to make the paper. Its no wonder that you can then collect extra on recycling costs after. The balance is paid for by advertising. The govt is the biggest advertiser so very few newspapers will piss off their biggest client. So the stories tend not to be very hard hitting.

^ Read this article, poor proof reading. Nothing new with TOI really.

In a nutshell that would be it, its like they do not have any. Often times typos and even fact checking in other places. Its a general comment of course.

^^
Read classics if you want to improve English and vocabulary. Most publications in India are quite lame. Stuff like this goes a long way.

Of course books are the real thing. The problem is you have to get to the point where the language interests you and has a mesmerising effect. Where you actualy enjoy the way the language is constructed. Too much to ask for in people that cannot even understand words in a newspaper i suppose.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

neither the Hindu nor the TOI have good English. Hindu uses outdated post-colonial verbose language while TOI dumbs it down too much.

Bingo! hyeah:

Are you referring to the New Indian Express or The Indian Express? The former is a breakaway group based in the south while the latter is the same paper that once stood for true ethical journalism. Unfortunately they fell victim to their inability to adapt to a changing market. The Congress also made them pay dearly in the 90's exacting their revenge upon them. They hobbled through the 90's and early 2000's and started sensationalising news to compete for readership. Unfortunately it hasn't worked as they are now a poor excuse for a newspaper.

There you go, govt has a stiffling effect on newspapers because its the biggest client. Thing is will people pay more for better news. Given the way the papers are going one would think not. The other thing is they say the internet is a big threat, how to survive in the future. People certainly want to read but will they pay.

 

[eternoMind]

I like the sunday paper, theres 3 pages in it that are good. Have heard good things about the crest edition but not read it yet, anybody familair with it, supposed to come out on a saturday.

I like the Crest edition. Been a reader since its inception (approx 2 years now). The stories/articles/essays cover a wide range of issues right from culture to sports to politics. Try it out for a month I say before judging it.

As far as STOI, I still think earlier it was better. I am referring to the Sunday Review (ala Times Life)/editorials and guest articles only.

 

[asingh]

Of course books are the real thing. The problem is you have to get to the point where the language interests you and has a mesmerising effect. Where you actualy enjoy the way the language is constructed. Too much to ask for in people that cannot even understand words in a newspaper i suppose.

I guess if someone can read and post here, they are good to go with Indian publications. And they can gradually migrate to Classic Novel if they wish too. Yes, but the story lines are heavy and deep. Though I feel, the newer generations are reading paperbacks less and less -- due to the advent of the www. Could be wrong though.

Though coming back, at times the structures of TOI articles are so lame, I just put the paper down and think: What the heck are they trying to say. Absolutely nonsensical and and at times syntax is incorrect.

 

[JuGGa]

We are moving away from newspapers here. But dan brown is trash. When an author repeats the same word every 25 pages, and sometimes the same phrase, you get a sense of deja vu in a bad way. Read early john grisham books to see how simple english can go a long way. If you are after british english, then saki is your guide. .

I choose a book normally on the genre first, not by writer. If its not interesting, I can't handle it. Da Vinci code, never!

I like the sunday paper, theres 3 pages in it that are good. Have heard good things about the crest edition but not read it yet, anybody familair with it, supposed to come out on a saturday.

Crest is the best part of TOI. I read it regularly, though reading it requires much time (excess of 2-3hrs). At least its far better than that semi-p0rn Times Life.

Of course books are the real thing. The problem is you have to get to the point where the language interests you and has a mesmerising effect. Where you actualy enjoy the way the language is constructed. Too much to ask for in people that cannot even understand words in a newspaper i suppose.

My eng is not that bad!

There you go, govt has a stiffling effect on newspapers because its the biggest client. Thing is will people pay more for better news. Given the way the papers are going one would think not. The other thing is they say the internet is a big threat, how to survive in the future. People certainly want to read but will they pay.

Papers can't directly compete internet, at least in tier-2 & 3 cities, where broadband penetration is still an issue. Plus reading news on net doesn't gives you the "feel", simply like e-book can't replace normal books.

I guess if someone can read and post here, they are good to go with Indian publications. And they can gradually migrate to Classic Novel if they wish too. Yes, but the story lines are heavy and deep. Though I feel, the newer generations are reading paperbacks less and less -- due to the advent of the www. Could be wrong though.

Though coming back, at times the structures of TOI articles are so lame, I just put the paper down and think: What the heck are they trying to say. Absolutely nonsensical and and at times syntax is incorrect.

+1

 

[cooleagle]

Damn! How did I miss this thread earlier? The shittiness of TOI used to be a pet rant of mine. I see we are almost in unanimous agreement that TOI sucks. I feel the same way. I even quit journalism because of it, which I will get into detail later. Ok, wall of text coming up:

Unfortunately, economics is to blame. TOI used to be a decent paper till management decided that they wanted to monopolize the market. The result? Lots of shitty page 3 news, sensationalist articles, false facts, paid for articles. This worked. More and more people started reading TOI. Last I checked, TOI is by far the most read english paper in India, followed by the Hindu (yes, check the NRS survey) and Hindustan times. TOI is read more than both the other papers put together, although you have to take into account that TOI has a lot more editions. TOI even started eating into the market share of the other papers in their conventional strongholds. So HT lost readers in Delhi while Hindu in Chennai.

Everyone is now playing catch-up with TOI while at the same losing readers to sensationalist TV news. Of course the old adage always works - 'if you can't beat em, join em', and that's what everyone is doing. Even conventional hard hitting fact-driven papers like Indian Express and the Statesman have now begun carrying sensationalist articles in a constant war of attrition. Me and a lot of my journalist buddies quit news for this very reason. As it stands if you work in one of these papers, you have to file an 'exclusive' everyday and if you can't, then your'e chewed up by the boss and often given bad performance ratings. Some reporters sink down to plagiarism or even invent stories out of nothing using out-of-context quotes or misrepresenting facts. Non-sensationalist stories are ignored or sensationalised. These reporters are just trying to keep their jobs. They have to toe the line. Often a reporter files a factual story only to be surprised the next day as the desk changes the story to make is more sensationalist. You as a reporter lose all control of your story once you file it.

This is where the quality drowns when even the senior management functionaries start recommending quantity. This leads to BS being printed in papers.

I still can't understand when reporters of some the news channel asks a person "Aap ko kaisa mehasus ho raha hai ??" who has lost someone dear/is stuck in the our govt's never ending processes. I simply hate such repoters.