The reason why 'PC' is neglected by DEVELOPERS

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Aman27deep said:
Gannu bhai its time for you to close this thread or the trolling will continue.
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As long as there is constructive criticism, I see no reason to close the thread. :)

I'm keeping a watch nonetheless.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
No one's saying that PC games should be exclusive. What people want are games that are optimized for the respective platform. A multi-platform game does not necessarily mean programing for the platform with the least hardware potential and then making shitty ports to the other platforms. For instance how would you feel about games that use Wii or PS/2 as lead platform and then ported to XBOX 360 and PS3 in the same state with the only addition being a pile of porting related bugs. Multi-platform games shouldn't be any different from exclusives in quality or optimization for respective platform.

And yeah, halting progress of hardware and software is in no way beneficial to any one. Neither to PC gamers nor to console gamers. It will only hurt both in the long run. And no, there was never an instance where people have had to buy 40k cards every year. If you want to run games at the same resolutions as a console would (600~72op), even a PC GPU can handle that. Ultimately what is the use of buying multiple platforms if you are going to get games that are not going to be uniquely optimized for the respective platform. Where is the user choice in that? Why would you even have a PC for gaming. Just buy the cheapest console in the market if that what developers are using as their baseline.

I know there would be people who are ready to scream that game play is important and graphics doesn't matter. But for me, graphics are just as important as any other aspect of the game. I would like to ask you, would you be fine going back to the ear of textual RPG/Adventures that were such a craze back in the old times. would you be fine with 256 color arcade ports on your $200+ consoles because that is what you would still have if not for progress in hardware and software.

While Multi-Platform games make a strong business sense, there is no denying that Multi-Platform compatibility is being abused like anything. Instead of offering choice to the user or bringing innovation, Multi platform compatibility has become a way for lazy developers to put all the blame on the console hardware and get away with poorly built/optimized games.
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EXCELLENT!! and almost perfect reply.I understood your post completely.
Optimization is really the word.it is important to optimize a game properly whatever the platform is.

heres something from my side too.

Before i start i must say that i will be very brief and will keep it simple.Experienced People will understand it better.

Guys whats there to quarrel about.Consoles are also made to make some extra income.
Consoles.Pc.Developers.Games.are all four distinct terms kindly don't mix them.

if x releases y console then x must also invest some money on some developers too to make a game limited to their consoles.....etc...profit is the key and necessity..rest can be understood.

moral of the story ranting about negligence for this is not going to release god of war for pc.:D

therefore useless and hence a troll.:)
 
Lord Nemesis said:
No one's saying that PC games should be exclusive. What people want are games that are optimized for the respective platform. A multi-platform game does not necessarily mean programing for the platform with the least hardware potential and then making shitty ports to the other platforms. For instance how would you feel about games that use Wii or PS/2 as lead platform and then ported to XBOX 360 and PS3 in the same state with the only addition being a pile of porting related bugs. Multi-platform games shouldn't be any different from exclusives in quality or optimization for respective platform.

And yeah, halting progress of hardware and software is in no way beneficial to any one. Neither to PC gamers nor to console gamers. It will only hurt both in the long run. And no, there was never an instance where people have had to buy 40k cards every year. If you want to run games at the same resolutions as a console would (600~72op), even a PC GPU can handle that. Ultimately what is the use of buying multiple platforms if you are going to get games that are not going to be uniquely optimized for the respective platform. Where is the user choice in that? Why would you even have a PC for gaming. Just buy the cheapest console in the market if that what developers are using as their baseline.

I know there would be people who are ready to scream that game play is important and graphics doesn't matter. But for me, graphics are just as important as any other aspect of the game. I would like to ask you, would you be fine going back to the ear of textual RPG/Adventures that were such a craze back in the old times. would you be fine with 256 color arcade ports on your $200+ consoles because that is what you would still have if not for progress in hardware and software.

While Multi-Platform games make a strong business sense, there is no denying that Multi-Platform compatibility is being abused like anything. Instead of offering choice to the user or bringing innovation, Multi platform compatibility has become a way for lazy developers to put all the blame on the console hardware and get away with poorly built/optimized games.
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Since you talk about optimization, when was the last time a major multiplatform A+ title released which was not properly optimized for the PC? Almost every majot title in the last couple of years has been optimized decently for the PC. Also, PC being the superior platform, most of the multi-platform titles perfom the best on a PC. I fail to see what PC gaming has to loose with games going multi-platform. You get the best graphics, higher framerates and mod support for almost half the price of a console title, what else can you ask for?

I agree, that halting a progress of hardware/software may seem like a step backward but in my opionion it is a necessary evil. It is not a case of halting the progress but rather just slowing it down a notch for the greater good. If the new trend is any indication, the PC gaming industry will also work along the lines of "Generation concept". Simply put, you are not going to see major advances in PC gaming in terms of graphics as long as the next generation of consoles do not arrive. And this trend will repeat every generation. As they say, its not personal, its just business. I for one, like this new business concept because it makes the games accesible to a much larger segment than just a select few.
 
simforgotten said:
^

A two year old gpu can play new games but using what settings? Do you get most of the eye candies on? And you are talking of 2 years, a console will play all the games at full settings until next gen console released, that is 7-8 years minimum. Which is more vfm now?

Also, you are saying people cant afford console but can afford pc? Rofl, a decent gaming pc will cost 25-30k minimum. Whereas a console costs within 20k. So which one is more affordable? The only thing you can say is that PC games are pirated mostly, so no cost of getting new games, just download from internet. Consoles are costly in this respect but nowadays, console games can also be downloaded online.

And about pc games, only those games are making good sales which are played mostly multiplayer. It is definitely not the case for single player games.
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Ok .You may be right.But in India many gamers are upto the age of 22(the age till you complete engineering or some other course).Till that age people are heavily dependent on parents and parents buy a PC for their children because they "think" that their son/daughter is gaining some knowledge or the pc is used for educational use.Most of them don't even know how we source games under the radar and how we play them.(hell,my parents dont even know that i play games).Do u honestly expect parents to buy you a console which is dedicated only for gaming??My dad will surely kick my arse if i go and ask him a console so that i can keep playing games all day.
 
^

That is totally a different aspect you are talking about. We are talking about pc gaming vs console gaming, not total utilization of pc vs utilization of console. Pc was invented for computational and educational purposes and not to play games. So you cannot compare a pc to a console which is solely to play games.

And also regarding parents, if they can provide cricket bats and balls, carrom boards, table tennis boards etc etc to their childeren, why cant they provide consoles? I bought half a dozen TV video games during my school life.
 
A few lines (since I have a lighter load in office).
My feeling is that it is unfair to ask PC gamers to pay for a new graphics card and new processors and more memeory every couple of years just so that they can play the latest games at the highest resolutions. In that sense consoles are much better because they are accessible to so many more folks. In time once I buy myself a large lcd TV I will get myself a console. As of now I do play computer games but yes I too will switch on because I see no sense in buying a new gpu every 2 years.
 
Aman27deep said:
Gannu i don't appreciate you deleting my images. It had nothing abusive, and i do not think that i broke any rules.
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It certainly counts as trolling but for your last sentence. Which is why I decided to get rid of that image. FYI, some of the members did report that post of yours.
 
simforgotten said:
And also regarding parents, if they can provide cricket bats and balls, carrom boards, table tennis boards etc etc to their childeren, why cant they provide consoles? I bought half a dozen TV video games during my school life.
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Exactly. My parents never stopped me from gaming (though dad did shout whenever i gamed > 2-3 hours). I bought a GB, GBA, GBASP, NDSL and on the console side, a PS1, a PS2, PSP and a PS3 all with my money, no body said nothing. :P

<3 my parents.

Gannu said:
FYI, some of the members did report that post of yours.
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*Sigh* I know exactly who they might be.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

^ (You know i was gonna post that image too, but...)
 
Bluffmaster said:
Since you talk about optimization, when was the last time a major multiplatform A+ title released which was not properly optimized for the PC? Almost every majot title in the last couple of years has been optimized decently for the PC. Also, PC being the superior platform, most of the multi-platform titles perfom the best on a PC. I fail to see what PC gaming has to loose with games going multi-platform. You get the best graphics, higher framerates and mod support for almost half the price of a console title, what else can you ask for?

I agree, that halting a progress of hardware/software may seem like a step backward but in my opionion it is a necessary evil. It is not a case of halting the progress but rather just slowing it down a notch for the greater good. If the new trend is any indication, the PC gaming industry will also work along the lines of "Generation concept". Simply put, you are not going to see major advances in PC gaming in terms of graphics as long as the next generation of consoles do not arrive. And this trend will repeat every generation. As they say, its not personal, its just business. I for one, like this new business concept because it makes the games accessible to a much larger segment than just a select few.
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Dude, which game in recent times was properly optimized for the PC? I don't call directly porting a console game and making it 'work' on the PC as optimization. If the developers are developing a game for PC, they should be 'developing' it and not just 'porting'. Who said we are getting better graphics and better frame rates? Most games coming out on PC these days seem to be horrible in terms of performance, very few of them do well.
Also how in the world can 'not optimizing a game for PC' make it accessible to a larger segment? No one told them to make platform exclusive titles. All we PC gamers want is them to make a game which can fully utilize our GPU's. We deserve our PC games to be well optimized as much as the console gamers do. It's unfair when a new title releases, all we get is the same game ported with the same graphics to the PC. Many times, even those ports are full of bugs killing the experience totally. Even if they do manage to port the games well, it's still disheartening to know that the graphics could have been better had it not been a port.

I don't know about the numbers in the first post, but I do believe a lot of it does have to do with sales on each platform.
One one hand the developers can make a game for a console and optimize the hell out of it which is easy since it's just a single system with the same hardware. On the other hand, if you make a game for the PC, there's a lot to worry about optimizing and scaling it on so many different system configurations. And after using up more resources for that, they end up with less money in sales. Obviously, from a business point of view, they prefer the former.
However, if they actually do make better games for the PC, I'm sure there would be a lot more people who would be willing to buy. No one wants to spend on crappy ports.
 
Honestly the way PC gaming is moving, it is quite apparent it is towards the south in terms of quality and support from ancillary vendors. Frankly, I do not care if the game is a console port to the PC or vice-versa. It should just 'run' on the designated platform. My pi$$ed off attitude started with BC2 for the PC. It was the most buggiest game and just refused to run. I had the non-AHEM official copy and from day one it it was a thumb-tack up my a$$. Be it the GPU companies not providing adequate driver support, or a console port, or mad optimization, or just bad coding PC gaming is not fun anymore. Then I tried Red Falcon: G, which never understood 2x GPUs. GTA: IV, Sniper GW added the tick marks on my bad PC made games. The final nail in the coffin for me was Crysis 2. No, it was not the DX9 release which upset me, but the really pathetic optimization for multiple GPUs, and ATI cards. See the amount of bloom which was present. Even a blind bat would cringe its eyes. In fact I had to use secondary driver overlay applications to make it work. Also I am the type of guy, who is fully updated on drivers and patches, so this was not a case of user ignorance. See the condition of Bulletstorm which we all played. Seriously that should not even moved to RTM.

I personally feel the whole paradigm and business sense for PC gaming has changed. It is more like unbundling a product, and not selling it as a GAME anymore, but more over as a PC / console exclusive. Either the companies are too focused on consoles, OR they feel they have it just correct for PC and are not upping the envelope for quality and better product-of-the-shelf. Now when ever I fire a new game on my PC, first thing on my mind is: "will it run", "will I get CTD", "will I get BSOD" (Crysis 2) is still doing this. Driver support, bad coded games, reverse ported software, not tested builds, one can choose and frown. Since PC games are now a small slice of the pie, developers and studios give it low priority which is clearly evident in the final product.

On the other hand, I got a PS3 few months back. It has been pure pleasure ever sense. Slip in the disc and its over. At least I get the minimal what I paid for. Gaming. Not sitting the whole time, reading forums for fixes, waiting for patches, updating CFG files, and doing registry hacks. With current work schedules and other commitments, there is no way I can devote so much prep time for gaming. For me at least, PC gaming is a ship on the horizon -- which will soon vanish.
 
Bluffmaster said:
Since you talk about optimization, when was the last time a major multiplatform A+ title released which was not properly optimized for the PC? Almost every majot title in the last couple of years has been optimized decently for the PC. Also, PC being the superior platform, most of the multi-platform titles perfom the best on a PC. I fail to see what PC gaming has to loose with games going multi-platform.?
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What is your definition of optimization?

Well my own definition is certainly not running a game @ 60FPS in lousy quality using less than 50% of a single core CPU and 30% of a GPU. It is also certainly not hogging up 100% of a CPU and GPU and still churn out less than 35FPS in the same lousy quality. Optimization is when you are utilizing underlying hardware and provide an proportionately immersing experience. It is not a question of which platform, but how its potential is being put to use.

You have to realize that It is not just the PC that is affected because of the present state of Multi Platform development, but the consoles as well. If I have a Multi-platform game that runs on PS3, I want it to be bench-marked against GOW3 and UC2. Instead of optimizing for respective platforms, Developers are using the Multi-platform compatibility as an excuse for not utilizing the platform like those exclusives do. There simply is no excuse for that. Same goes for XBOX 360. XBOX 360 is a platform most plagued by Multi-platform development. Name one recent title on the platform that is fully optimized for the platform and delivers an experience like UC2 does on PS3? Is it because XBOX 360 is inferior to PS3? I don't think so. While the hardware is different in many ways, the potential is overall similar and its the level of optimization that makes the difference. Even with a Fully Multi-platform Engine like UE3, you have so diverse a level of utilization and optimization among different titles and even for the same title, among the implementations across platforms. Its always possible to tune the experience for each platform if the developers only care. I don't mind if it means that releases for each platform are done at different times to give themselves enough time.

Bluffmaster said:
You get the best graphics, higher framerates and mod support for almost half the price of a console title, what else can you ask for?
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I want a lot more, Being an owner of 3 different gaming platforms, I want Multi-platform games that are fine tuned to each of the specific platforms. I want Multi-platform games that don't force to me to make choices based on "Which version of the game is the least crappiest", I want games that make me buy the same game on multiple platforms, not because they were unplayable, but because they are so good and offer a fine tuned experience on each platform.
 
I want a lot more, Being an owner of 3 different gaming platforms
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Well, there is your answer. You are probably an avid gamer and can afford all gaming platforms and thus expect nothing but best from each individual platform. The only point I am trying to make here is that you should look at the big picture. You should look at things not only from a developers point of view but also from an average gamers point of view. Thanks to Multi-platforming, I do not really miss not having a particular platform for gaming because I am content with what I get on my platform and I know that I am not missing too much. In the end its really a choice between being content with exclusives or enjoying the best of both worlds. I prefer the later.

There is really no end to this debate and it is also kind of pointless since the industry will only follow the money and right now multi-platforming is where the money is at.
 
Why do you consider the average gamer to always be a console player? There are average gamers on PC too. And just because they are average gamers doesn't mean they don’t deserve games that run better on their hardware.

Infact the average gamer would be the one losing out the most. If he only has a PC and tries out a game only to find out it has so many bugs it's unplayable, he won't try and rack his brains out to find patches/fixes to see what works. Only the hardcore gamers who really want to play the game will try and make it work anyhow. Others will just leave the game.

As far as I know, atleast in India, there are far more casual gamers on PC than console. Even in other countries, the number isn't less to ignore them.

No one is saying multi platform is a bad thing. It's great that everyone gets to play. All we want is the devs to fully utilize each platform's capability.
 
i tried to play halo3 on a console.
couldnt get hang of the controls.

seriously, how do you play a fps without a mouse????

even a trackpad would be preferable to a couple of joysticks
 
rabid.parrots said:
seriously, how do you play a fps without a mouse????
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When you were a toddler, how did you learn to walk and take your first steps? How did you learn cycling? Or driving?

All it takes is some practice. And patience ofc.
 
Yup practice as all that is needed

I recently started playing on consoles and I have to say that as I gradually started to get a hang of the controller the games become more interesting...

FPS is difficult on a console and so should not be the first game to try on a console....

for PS3 GOW 3 is a good option followed by Unchartered ... Killzone 3, COD type fps should be attempted only after finishing these 2 games IMO
 
For this issue only Konami guys goona release the next version of MGS for PC too (Graphics is too important too, realize it people) Just easy accessible alone wont prove the point Consoles are better than PC.. And am saying this again PC is far more better than Consoles... Just trolling here never gonna make any difference.... Hell ya Developers are giving to much importance for PC games now a days, believe me, am telling this as a game tester for Consoles :)
 
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